Patriotism (for me)..

[Steven58]

To me the difference between patriots and fools is that patriots vote according to what they believe is best for the well-being the entire nation, even if it is at their own expense. Conversely, fools vote according to what they believe is best for themselves, even if it is at the expense of the nation.

 

[OstrichSaK]

That being said, do you vote for who YOU feel would be best for this nation or the lesser of two evils because one is more likely to win than the other if those people are different?

 

[ElasticNinja]

To me the difference between patriots and fools is that patriots vote according to what they believe is best for the well-being the entire nation, even if it is at their own expense. Conversely, fools vote according to what they believe is best for themselves, even if it is at the expense of the nation.

Given the support for austerity policies (spending cuts and tax hikes), and strong environmental policies in Europe compared to the US, seems that Europe has a good deal more patriots.

 

[TxGoat]

You have to also keep in mind that different people will look at a country's actions in different perspectives. For instance, when the U.S. went to war with Iraq, those that were in favor of the war said anyone that opposed it were not being patriotic. For me, I thought we went to war under false pretense and deception so I don't think the actions of our administration at the time was a noble act. You can be patriotic and still disapprove of your country's actions.

IMO, you can compare it to being a parent. If your child is unruly and disruptive and yet you think he/she can do no wrong then that doesn't mean you're a good parent. If you have no problem correcting your child's questionable behaviors or disciplining a child when they act out then later in life the child will exhibit better character.


For the record, I think there are a lot of politicians on BOTH sides that are acting very unpatriotic right now by putting party ahead of country. It sure would be nice if we had a Patriotic party that cared about this country more than it did their own party's power.

 

[breadnatty08]

I like to think that Patriotism should be the opposite of Nationalism (re: N. Korea).
There's a lot I love about this country, and most of all is the ability for people to disagree on ideas, policies, politics etc. It's great that here in the US we can be open to voice our opinions and not be punished.
In regards to look out for yourself vs. that of the whole, I'm not sure I agree (or understand). If you talk about many who are in poverty and rely on the government for subsidies and other help, a lot of them vote for Republicans because of moral and ethical issues that often don't even apply to them (ie: gay marriage, abortion). This, even when Republicans try to squash those very programs that they rely on.
If I voted (which I generally don't since I live in DC and it's pretty pointless), it would generally be along party lines (Democratic). I believe they care more about the common man vs corporate interests (which, yes they do too) and the elite.

 

[Steven58]

With my new job here, I don't really don't have to banter, but I'll say this. My statement is more a matter of the person's heart, than their policy stance. Many people just vote according to their wallets. I do not. Sometimes I vote in ways that hurt me, personally, because I believe it's best for the country.

That being said, in my book, if someone votes on issues that he/she thinks is best for the nation, at their own expense, whether they be liberal or conservative, they are a patriot in my book.

Patriotism, in other words, isn't reserved for one ideology over another. It's the condition of a person's heart, imo.

 

[lunatic59]

It's impossible to judge an individual's patriotism based on the actions of their elected officials. Regardless of official policy action or law, if at the time an individual acts they believe it is in the best interest of their nation, they are a patriot. They may be misguided, or misled or lack the mental acuity to analyse every factor to evaluate the biggest picture, but it doesn't make them less of a patriot.

However, in the case where someone acts with incorrect or poorly formed ideas and is subsequently educated, the true patriot would change their stance rather than stubbornly proceed blindly.

 

[breadnatty08]

Well, what about California with all their propositions?
One of the few times where you are directly voting for policy changes and not a candidate who you hope will vote that way in their respective house. Also, how do you weigh voting on issues that really aren't fiscal in nature (like Prop 8: gay marriage)? I'm not trying to pick a fight, just curious of your thoughts.

 

[TxGoat]

I like to think that Patriotism should be the opposite of Nationalism (re: N. Korea).
There's a lot I love about this country, and most of all is the ability for people to disagree on ideas, policies, politics etc. It's great that here in the US we can be open to voice our opinions and not be punished.
In regards to look out for yourself vs. that of the whole, I'm not sure I agree (or understand). If you talk about many who are in poverty and rely on the government for subsidies and other help, a lot of them vote for Republicans because of moral and ethical issues that often don't even apply to them (ie: gay marriage, abortion). This, even when Republicans try to squash those very programs that they rely on.
If I voted (which I generally don't since I live in DC and it's pretty pointless), it would generally be along party lines (Democratic). I believe they care more about the common man vs corporate interests (which, yes they do too) and the elite.

Some people believe that patriotism involves a loyalty to the constitution, if you have an opinion that's not 100% in line with the exact wording of the constitution then you're considered unpatriotic. IMO, this country was founded on freedom, liberty, and justice. I don't think that the founding fathers expected the constitution to be all inclusive to all situations that may arise during the course of running a country. I do think that they intended to demonstrate their intent for this country by being explicit with some of the issues they addressed, like the right to free speech.

That being said, I'd rather be true to the spirit on which the constitution was drafted, and not so much each specific word of the constitution. The bible is another body of work that I think people misinterpret and sometimes manipulate to suit their needs.

 

[pastafarian]

The term patriotic or patriotism is subjective at best and way over used. You could consider yourself and/or be viewed as patriotic for defending a country's government or for attacking the same government because it is viewed as corrupt. Most of the time it's used as a weapon against a competitor and a foil against attackers in the political arena. When it has so little defined meaning, it's a lazy mans ploy to use it either way.

 

[TxGoat]

The term patriotic or patriotism is subjective at best and way over used. You could consider yourself and/or be viewed as patriotic for defending a country's government or for attacking the same government because it is viewed as corrupt. Most of the time it's used as a weapon against a competitor and a foil against attackers in the political arena. When it has so little defined meaning, it's a lazy mans ploy to use it either way.

Hopefully we can all agree that Luke Skywalker and his Rebel Alliance were not patriotic and were also nothing more than scruffy looking nerf herding terrorists....


BTW, what the hell is a nerf herder and can Han Solo herd a patriotic nerf?

 

[OutofDate1980]

With my new job here, I don't really don't have to banter, but I'll say this. My statement is more a matter of the person's heart, than their policy stance. Many people just vote according to their wallets. I do not. Sometimes I vote in ways that hurt me, personally, because I believe it's best for the country.

That being said, in my book, if someone votes on issues that he/she thinks is best for the nation, at their own expense, whether they be liberal or conservative, they are a patriot in my book.

Patriotism, in other words, isn't reserved for one ideology over another. It's the condition of a person's heart, imo.

Believe one's self interest can also intersect with the good of the public. Believe Nick Hanauer understands a growing economy requires customers.


Nick Hanauer’s TED talk on taxes - The Washington Post

 

[argedion]

Patriotism is something more like a double edge sword. I may have supported the war in Iraq and been considered a Patriot, or I could have Opposed the war in Iraq but still supported our Troops and been considered a Patriot. So patriotism is really based on the perspective of how someone else views your actions. In the end I do believe that Patriotism is as fickle as those who support the direction you may be going. People jump sides all the time. So today I consider you a Patriot, tomorrow I consider you a person who has committed treason. As my perspective changes so does your label.

 

[saptech]

Are the likes of Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity and others similar to them, Patriots or fools?

I'm just curious because a large majority of Americans seems to follow and like what they have to say.

 

[mikedt]

Hopefully we can all agree that Luke Skywalker and his Rebel Alliance were not patriotic and were also nothing more than scruffy looking nerf herding terrorists....


BTW, what the hell is a nerf herder and can Han Solo herd a patriotic nerf?

Made in China.

 

[Steven58]

thread closed per op request.