Rasberry Pi

[sleedeane]

Would one help me to learn Android better?
Like rooting, flashing, custom ROM's, kernals, programming...?
Or would it screw me up and confuse me more if all I'm really interested in learning right now is Android?
How about computers in general? Is a Pi a good learning tool for understanding what makes Windows, Apple, Linux, Android, etc, similar? Different?

I'm asking these same questions in their forum as well.
I figure input from both sides would help me decide if I should get on the waiting list (6 months) to get a Pi (they're cheap enough).

http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/absolute-beginners/where-do-pre-absolute-beginners-go

Thank-you

 

[linuxrich]

A tricky one to answer! Sure, both the Pi and Android use the Linux kernel but there are enough differences between Android and your average Linux distro to make porting applications from one to the other non-trivial. (Such is my understanding of it anyway.)

I would say getting a Pi and playing about with it would help your understanding of Unix like (Deffo not winblows!) systems in a general kind of way.

 

[sleedeane]

A tricky one to answer! Sure, both the Pi and Android use the Linux kernel but there are enough differences between Android and your average Linux distro to make porting applications from one to the other non-trivial. (Such is my understanding of it anyway.)

I would say getting a Pi and playing about with it would help your understanding of Unix like (Deffo not winblows!) systems in a general kind of way.

And they're only $35!

 

[SUroot]

Why can I still not buy one?! Gah

 

[9to5cynic]

They should be mass producing these things, but put 'em in a case maybe..? I'd like a case. Something to offer a bit of protection and aesthetics.

 

[alostpacket]

I'd think there are more tutorials about Android + Arduino out there that would help teach the nitty gritty of hardware.

At least, that's how I was hoping to learn some of it

 

[sleedeane]

I'd think there are more tutorials about Android + Arduino out there that would help teach the nitty gritty of hardware.

At least, that's how I was hoping to learn some of it

quite possible. but I want to hold it in my hand and play with it not read about it. for 25 or 35 dollars... it just sounds like a fun way to learn. and from what I understand, that's what it is made for. to teach kids and other novices how to progam a computer. But, since they only have 256mb total, they're not really that compatible with android...? but they are Linux...
I better read some more...
Thank you

 

[alostpacket]

Arduino is basically the same thing. About $25-$50 and you get a small microprocessor and a tiny board maybe some RAM.

I mention it because it's officially supported by Android (as of 3.1+) and a lot of hobbyists use it for things like making little remote robots or home automation stuff.

Some links that might help:

Android Open Accessory Development Kit | Android Developers

Controlling Arduino with Android using Processing adafruit industries blog

R-Pi is cool, but it's new and hard to get, and who knows what it's compatible with yet.

 

[sleedeane]

Arduino is basically the same thing. About $25-$50 and you get a small microprocessor and a tiny board maybe some RAM.

I mention it because it's officially supported by Android (as of 3.1+) and a lot of hobbyists use it for things like making little remote robots or home automation stuff.

Some links that might help:

Android Open Accessory Development Kit | Android Developers

Controlling Arduino with Android using Processing adafruit industries blog

R-Pi is cool, but it's new and hard to get, and who knows what it's compatible with yet.

I think you just made me painfully aware of a truth that I've been on the edge of wholefully and whole-heart and mindfully accepting unto myself for some, no, all, time, from this onset unto Android, no, all, everything electronic that I have so eagerly engaged and bequeathed my any, and all, of my own, being, since and that has been, awashed within, IT, this, a simple thing:

I don't have any clue at all about anything having to do with computers, even after about 5 years of having a smartphone.
I just read some of the "getting started" of the first link you offered me, and my lower mandible hit the table so hard my poor dog yelped out of a sound sleep thinking something evil was coming to finish her off.
I ask(ed) myself, I asked: Do I need to understand what they are talking about to learn computers?
Then I assumed: This is probably true of the "Pi" also. It probably starts out with the same "getting started", only the parallel dementional anti-matter polar opposite of (since IT isn't made to play well with Android, like this better suited...other...thing...is).
Then I answered myself: Yes. Yes to what you are thinking, and yes to whatever you just wasted (this) these nice people's so generously and freely given time blathering about.
(sorry you ever responded to my so illy misguided inquisitiveness, I bet).

To self: Geeze. What a waste of a nice phone. I should give it to my dog.

Or(to alp): Thank you for showing me the error of my ways.
I'm not going to pretend that I cutoffever

(sorry. I'm back. I had to real quick show my dog everything I know about this phone before I give it to her)

I can't learn what I what. I accept me for who I am.
This stuff just frustrates me anymore.

However, check this out:
I'm borrowing a laptop Sunday, and am going to be asking for the easiest to understand instructions that one of you can offer to root this thing, unload some bloat, and flash something cool into-ooth it.
Cool?

(got dogs attention)

 

[sleedeane]

Um. I was serious about the rooting thing. Why is everybody laughing at me?
Where should I go for my step-by-steps?
Or am I too crazy for this?
I want to memorize and study before Sunday.
Thank you all.

 

[ryancmatchett]

If I remember correctly you have an SII on T-Mobile?
Try this:
http://androidforums.com/galaxy-s2-t-mobile-all-things-root/448241-galaxy-s2-t-mobile-all-things-root-guide.html

As far as the PI goes...learning is always good. I have one ordered, should be here in about 2 weeks. And I have already spent a year developing on arduino at home...so the PI should be easier...I hope. Plus the combination of android and arduino....lots of fun.

 

[sleedeane]

If I remember correctly you have an SII on T-Mobile?
Try this:
http://androidforums.com/galaxy-s2-...galaxy-s2-t-mobile-all-things-root-guide.html

As far as the PI goes...learning is always good. I have one ordered, should be here in about 2 weeks. And I have already spent a year developing on arduino at home...so the PI should be easier...I hope. Plus the combination of android and arduino....lots of fun.

Okay.
Before I go get the PC, I went over to the xda link to see what questions I may have.
I don't mind admitting, I'm not sure I even understand the very first steps:
(keep in mind that right now I'm viewing the root guide from my phone)

Things I need:

Odin 1.8++ (click here)
USB Drivers

Question:
Do those last 2 things go on the phone or the computer?

Next need:

CWM that I will flash with Odin

Question: When I click on that, I get a blank Web page.

Then, the instructions show a box with a long code in it.

Question: What is that box with the code for?

Next: I will need the Superuser thing, which they want on the Internal memory.

Question: I clicked on the su instruction just to see what it looked like.
Well, it downloaded, and to the external card.
There is now a META-INF folder and a System folder on my ex card.

How and where do I move those 2 folders to Internal?


Now, the instructions start:

Make sure PC recognizes phone.

Question: Am I supposed to go to Settings and click on the USB Debugging (something like that) and plug my phone into the PC to find this out? If so, is the phone supposed to be on, or... when I plug it in to the PC?

Then it says to put the Superuser on the Internal (card), which I already asked about earlier.

Okay. Let me see how you respond to these questions before I read the next instructions, okay?

I really appreciate you helping me with this.
Sorry for all the questions. I probably have convinced you of my illiteracy with this stuff by now.

I believe I can do this, and I hope l'm right that if something goes wrong you or another tech can bail me out and help me fix it.

(Soon, the instructions say: Make a Nandroid b/u. Where do I get one of those, where and how do I put it...?)

Thanx again.

 

[ryancmatchett]

No worries happy to help. I sent you a pm with my contact info.

In regards to the PI and android, I wanted to add the reason why I have been using arduino.....
We have a saltwater tank hobby...and 2 years ago, I looked for a way to control everything from lights to pumps to heaters etc. I could spend multiple thousands of dollars on a pre built, commercial controller or I could apply my tech side and DIY skills and build one to match MY needs....enter arduino. I have been expanding and building it ever since. Now I am applying those same skills in other areas of the house, with security, home automation and entertainment. PI is an add on for my current system, but honestly, I found that arduino + android means that there are an infinite number of options available...I just have to think about what I want to do...and build it.
And it gets easier with practice!!!!

 

[SUroot]

No one is laughing at you. I re read all the posts prior to the post about laughing and see nothing that should give you that impression.

Back to the first question, will a raspberry pi teach you android? My feeling is no.

You will be able to use it as an unsupported device and teach yourself how to make android compatible with a device that has no drivers. That may involve writing drivers. But you can do that with the android source code and any android device anyway.

The best way to learn android imho is with an android device. Buy a cheap second hand one and develop roms for it. Something like a HTC hero that you know people have created roms for in the past, so you know its possible. That's the best way imho

 

[sleedeane]

No one is laughing at you. I re read all the posts prior to the post about laughing and see nothing that should give you that impression.

Back to the first question, will a raspberry pi teach you android? My feeling is no.

You will be able to use it as an unsupported device and teach yourself how to make android compatible with a device that has no drivers. That may involve writing drivers. But you can do that with the android source code and any android device anyway.

The best way to learn android imho is with an android device. Buy a cheap second hand one and develop roms for it. Something like a HTC hero that you know people have created roms for in the past, so you know its possible. That's the best way imho

I asked myself just that very thing earlier today.
Why would I get something totally alien to me when I already have a familiarity with these phones, since smartphones are what interest me?
I don't know why I would do that.
I could probably pick up something like what you suggest for next to nothing.
I think my biggest hurdle is my lack of a PC to tweak (learn) these things around, right?
Thank you for keeping me focused on my goal to understand Android.
It's almost more like I need to better understand Android first, then Pi or whatever other gadgetry is out
there that.
Plus, i'm already familiar with this forum and some of the good people here.
I wouldn't want to leave a great place like this to partake in group discussions in some strange forum talking about a whole different animal.
I would certainly be confused all the way around trying to understand two different things at the same time.

Thanx again
I

 

[alostpacket]

No one is laughing at you. I re read all the posts prior to the post about laughing and see nothing that should give you that impression.

Back to the first question, will a raspberry pi teach you android? My feeling is no.

You will be able to use it as an unsupported device and teach yourself how to make android compatible with a device that has no drivers. That may involve writing drivers. But you can do that with the android source code and any android device anyway.

The best way to learn android imho is with an android device. Buy a cheap second hand one and develop roms for it. Something like a HTC hero that you know people have created roms for in the past, so you know its possible. That's the best way imho

Well said. Arduino would be a second step after learning Android. And a big one (I have yet to take myself). R-Pi would be a good third step.

These second and third step are really only if you want to get down and dirty with the hardware. But learning Android first is great fun and there is a lot you can do on the software side of things with just Android

 

[ryancmatchett]

No one is laughing at you. I re read all the posts prior to the post about laughing and see nothing that should give you that impression.

Back to the first question, will a raspberry pi teach you android? [Bold]My feeling is no.[/bold]

You will be able to use it as an unsupported device and teach yourself how to make android compatible with a device that has no drivers. That may involve writing drivers. But you can do that with the android source code and any android device anyway.

The best way to learn android imho is with an android device. Buy a cheap second hand one and develop roms for it. Something like a HTC hero that you know people have created roms for in the past, so you know its possible. That's the best way imho

I completely agree with this...but I might add that application of the learning might be the next step. Meaning what does the OP want to DO with the knowledge?
I learned android before my first android phone, the G1, so I have been at it for a little while, but only because I already knew and like the Linux OS systems, android was a logical next step-for me.
Starting from scratch now may be time consuming, but the end result is worth it. At this point, I am learning and thinking about what I can use android to do, so coming up with ideas of the application is fun. I use android for more than just my personal phone, arduino for hobbies, and a home server network to manage entertainment....PI will help me learn how to integrate one user interface for every part of my own personal home automation!!!
PI does not seem specific for learning android and there are better ways to learn it, such as the suggestion above. There are also way better ways to learn about windows and Mac OS. PI can't help with those. PI is specific for learning wiring and a base programming tool. Something to learn the basics, before arduino mega or ADKs...
It seems that PI was created to get a new generation back in touch with our roots in tech...and for that idea alone, PI may stand out from the pack as a beginners learning tool.
Start slow, have patience, and practice. That's the way to learn, and its never too late to start learning!

 

[SUroot]

Yep.

I would like to add that although I am a wintel tech, I had no knowledge of Linux. I learned android and then terminal emulators. Then, when I wanted to develop roms, I had to learn Linux. That was probably backwards but android gave me a step up or a boost in understanding Linux.

Yes android uses a Linux kernel and there are some operational similarities but there are difference too. Knowing one completely does not give you the complete knowledge of the other, but it does help.

As mentioned, it may help to understand what knowledge you want and what you'll do with it in order to steer you better.

A cheap computer that runs Linux would help, so if that's the pi, so be it but the fundamental understanding will come from an android device.

 

[sleedeane]

I completely agree with this...but I might add that application of the learning might be the next step. Meaning what does the OP want to DO with the knowledge?

I am very smart when it comes to home building. Nobody has ever said different of me.
I went from a laborer to a master carpenter in only a decade or so.
I was a carpenter for 25 years before a scaffold collapse landed me in a wheelchair in 2002.
I learned the trade quick because I was fortunate enough to work for some very qualified builders.
They took the time to share their knowledge with me, and I absorbed it like a dry sponge to water.

I haven't worked since then. I don't do much of anything anymore.
One day I watched a guy doing something on a "really neat looking" phone.
I said something to him like, "I could never even figure out how to turn that thing on" to him.
I had a dated Razor flip-phone at the time, and had been thinking about getting a new flip.
He said, "sure you could. These smart-phones are easy. You ought to go across the street and get you a free one", pointing to T-mobile.

I did. I got a free Optimus T for signing a 2-year.

Then one day, when Googleing(?) Android, I found this forum.
It didn't take long to realize that there are some really, really, smart people here.
Heck, you guys had me hooked on Android instantly.
I had that thing rooted within a couple of months, from not even knowing what the term "smartphone" meant. I figured it was another word for Blackberry or something. Android? IPhone?
Not a clue to rooted in a few months (albeit Gingerbreak, I think. I may be confusing this with my second phone, an HTC My Touch, maybe).

Anyway, I quickly learned what Open Source meant.
It was at that point that I decided that I wanted to learn how to develope an app.
I knew I had some great teachers at my disposal, and lots of time on my hands.

I thought I was smart enough to do anything I set my mind to.
Like learning how to build a house.

But...And this is your answer.

This stuff you guys can do blows my mind.
I am utterly fascinated with what these things can do.
To me, OS means no limits. Every single day, I find, by pushing buttons, checking out apps, and hanging out in here, something new that I wish I knew how it came to be.
I thought (and think) that there are what start out as a simple function. But when all these basic...algorythms...? Functions and commands...? Little...somethings...?that have been given their orders...abilities, thanks to something that is making signals and connections to the...other somethings...when following other commands that are set in play because this other thing said go do that so that we can achieve the final product that the...administrator...?...user...? is asking for...

I want to know how to arrange and layer these orders and commands to get the hardware to function to achieve the desired outcome.

That's it.
I know, at my age and the many real life problems, distractions, that are depleted and tweaking my core thinking processes, that I'll never learn how to make an app, even a little money, maybe, as was my original goal.

It's different now.
I don't have any goals, except to absorb and retain anything that I do learn, if only to help me understand something later.

Just good old fashioned curiosity on how things work.

This phone will be rooted by Tue or Wed, and I will figure out how to play with other ROM's that you guys recommend.
I will be ecstatic when I am there.
I might even have a better sense of belonging (in here), and maybe a boost in my self-confidence.

I guess I must be learning something.
I have confidence in myself that I can follow instructions good enough to not brick this thing (that's only one day old, and uninsured...soon no warranty...I paid $600 cash...)