General Terms & Conditions Changes as of 7/1/12

[tuller]

Just received a text from VM about the General Terms & Conditions changes, as of 7/1/12...see item g...I don't know if it was stated like this before.

Our Right To Suspend Or Terminate Services

We can, without notice, suspend or terminate any Service at any time for any reason. For example, we can suspend or terminate any Service for the following: (a) failure to have or maintain an appropriate account balance for applicable charges; (b) harassing/threatening/abusing/offending our employees or agents; (c) providing false or inaccurate information; (d) interfering with our operations; (e) using/suspicion of using Services in any manner restricted by or inconsistent with the Agreement and Policies; (f) breaching, failing to follow, or abusing the Agreement or Policies; (g) modifying a Device from its manufacturer specifications (for example, rooting the device); or (h) if we believe the action protects our interests, any customer's interests, or our networks.

Virgin Mobile USA

 

[benslgdroid]

There attempting to prevent tethering is all as they have no way to check other than a spike in data usage. I do believe it's always been there though.

 

[tuller]

Thanks, just never noticed that before!

 

[melim]

I tried to read though that yesterday & have no idea exactly what is changing either. I do know that that section was there before; some of their example reasons may different, tho. It's been forever since I read the TOS.

(I think this thread probably belongs in the VM forum... )

 

[benslgdroid]

Will move

 

[agentc13]

We can, without notice, suspend or terminate any Service at any time for any reason. For example, we can suspend or terminate any Service for the following:
...
(g) modifying a Device from its manufacturer specifications (for example, rooting the device)

I'm pretty sure that they can't terminate service for rooting a device. Wasn't that settled years ago in the courts?

I would look up info, but I am on my phone.

 

[MacFett]

You are correct agentc13, they legally can not do anything (other than refuse warranty service) for rooting a device.

 

[Android fan#1]

(b) harassing/threatening/abusing/offending our employees or agents; (c)

virgin mobile usa

lol

 

[melim]

^Why is that funny? Those people have to take a lot of crap for very little money.

 

[Android fan#1]

I know that.But why would someone threaten them if it's not there fault?

 

[Seanette]

I know that.But why would someone threaten them if it's not there fault?

You've never worked in a call center, have you? On one of my several call center stints, I was dealing with Medicare prescription coverage and had a caller tell me he was going to find and kill me because Federal law did not let him get as much oxycodone as he wanted without certain required paperwork.

Yep, you read that right. Obeying Federal law (I had no power to do anything else) was grounds to end my life as far as this guy was concerned.

Call center work can be enjoyable when you get sane callers (they can be clueless as long as they're at least polite about it and that's OK), but when you get nut jobs or entitled bullies, it's pretty unpleasant.

 

[fightingirish]

I was browsing VM's Facebook page, and allegedly, they're starting to send out texts announcing TOS changes. Rumor is, they'll terminate customers who they find out are rooting or tethering their phones. I don't tether, but I sure as hell rooted, and it's the reason I've kept this phone and their service.

Doesn't VM realize that discouraging rooting is a stupid idea that will just chase away customers?

 

[sammyz]

I was browsing VM's Facebook page, and allegedly, they're starting to send out texts announcing TOS changes. Rumor is, they'll terminate customers who they find out are rooting or tethering their phones. I don't tether, but I sure as hell rooted, and it's the reason I've kept this phone and their service.

Doesn't VM realize that discouraging rooting is a stupid idea that will just chase away customers?

All rooting does at all is void warranty, they shouldn't stop service for being rooted, tethering is another story....

 

[kwknott]

If you compare VM's new TOS to Sprint's they are pretty much similar. I just think it's them bringing their TOS inline with Sprint's.

I don't think there is any way for them to tell you rooted unless you send them back a phone you left rooted.

 

[Leslie Ann]

I don't think legally they can terminate you for rooting.
We already had court cases like that regarding jailbreaking the Iphone.

Also, in terms of tethering, VM NEVER allowed it before at all.

 

[benslgdroid]

They have no way of verifying root anyway.

 

[CuriousNoob]

Don't see what's the big deal anyway. We bought the phone, it becomes out possession?

OTHER THAN TETHERING, that's not really ours

 

[benslgdroid]

i am moving this to virgin mobile forum and combining it with the other thread that was moved yesterday as they are the same.

 

[agentc13]

I don't think legally they can terminate you for rooting.
We already had court cases like that regarding jailbreaking the Iphone.

Also, in terms of tethering, VM NEVER allowed it before at all.

^This.

They can't terminate service for rooting, regardless of what their ToS says. They can void the warranty though.

 

[MacFett]

Also, in terms of tethering, VM NEVER allowed it before at all.

And now they allow it for an extra $15 a month.

 

[agianne]

A couple of things need clarification.

The lead sentence reads: "We can, without notice, suspend or terminate any Service at any time for any reason." They give some examples, but those examples are not all inclusive. Even if the "rooting" example were illegal (which it is not - see below), they could just pick some other reason and you'd be out of luck. Theoretically they could terminate your service because they don't like your shirt. That's what "for any reason" means.

Unlike a "monopoly" landline telco, Sprint (and all other wireless providers) is not a common carrier and is not required by law or regulation to provide service to anyone. They don't have to accept you as a customer and can end the relationship anytime they want and they don't even have to give you a specific reason.

Regarding our phones, all the courts have determined is that rooting/jailbreaking does not violate the DCMA. That's an intellectual property issue, not a provisioning of wireless services issue. No law or regulation guarantees that a customer can force a carrier to accept a customer-provided wireless device or a customer-modified, carrier-provided device. If you take a phone to another carrier, it's because the carrier is choosing to allow it, not because the government is requiring them to do it.

Rooting a phone is not a bad thing to do, morally or otherwise. It's your dang phone, brick it if you want. However, if you are using a modified device (rooted, flashed with a non-carrier provided ROM, spray-painted pink, whatever) and the device causes interference/conjestion/problems on the network, they absolutely can and will suspend your service. It would be unusual to terminate service (meaning they disconnect your account) in the case of an end device going haywire.

It's impossible to know what their intent was without asking someone high enough up that they actually know what they are talking about. I think it would have made more sense if they had said "for example, flashing a custom ROM to a device" since that is more likely to include a change that could hose the network. (I can't conceive of any way that simply obtaining root access could cause network performance problems.) I'm willing to bet that the product manager and lawyer who were responsible for crafting the ToS do not understand the finer points of root/recovery/ROM and as a result, included a weird example.

 

[rukin5197]

I have heard of a carrier using a phone's browser to find out if they're running CyanogenMod (this is the thread), but never heard of a carrier provider finding out about rooting. Like someone said before, possibly tethering and the data spiking up. But really there is no way.

My wonder is if because some ROMs make their own apps that are built into their framework, like CM and DSPManager, and MIUI and their apps, if the carrier providers can see if they're using those apps. But like I've said before, just rooting and not installing ROMs would not be able to find out.

I'm not the one to discuss this, though. Leslie seems to be the strong point on all of this stuff. She always has the right opinion on it. (not biased at all). But it's the one thing I've picked up on her. (And she LOVES to write. Those real long paragraphs that you want to get into )

 

[zaphodbblx]

I have heard of a carrier using a phone's browser to find out if they're running CyanogenMod (this is the thread), but never heard of a carrier provider finding out about rooting. Like someone said before, possibly tethering and the data spiking up. But really there is no way.

the tethering is partly their fault..my optimus v did it right out of the box

 

[Tokens210]

for now, i wont even worry about it, its VM just covering all there bases, what gets me the most tho is other companies are trying things like this to, as someone stated the jailbreak-iphone case, there is a microsoft-xbox modder case, and i believe a ps3 case as well

what the companies seem to forget, if i recall correctly, there is a law set in place years ago for consumers, stating once you purchase any electronic devices they become yours to do as you wish, you can take it apart, you can throw it from a bridge lol, you can modify it in 1000x way, as long as what your doing isnt directly trying to steal or take something from the company at hand, or other users within the company, its your device to do as you wish, granted modifing any electronic device severs ties with you and said company on warranty terms, but besides that its yours

not to mention, for our phones these things were basically a must to get things to run smoothly lol, so it would almost be like a shoe company telling you you cant change the shoe laces in the shoes you just bought cause that would be a shoe modification lol



and as for tethering, i dont like anyway there handling it, jumping on the band wagon with all other companies, i got the unlimited plan for a reason, just so if i needed a wifi hotspot for a lil bit, altho it would be slower, i could use my phone, and i pay for unlimited everything so id have nothing to worry about, but there like nah, we dont got enough money yet and some people may have been abusing it so its an extra $15 a month lol, get outta here with that

 

[MikeRL]

I swear, if they terminate my service for running CyanogenMod, I'm leaving them for good! CyanogenMod was the only thing that made this phone usable. That, along with rooting and MIUI. If they want my money, they'll state that rooting and custom ROMs are okay, as long as I don't send them a bricked phone. Also, I can see them being mad about tethering. But that is no reason to attack us for rooting and running CyanogenMod/MIUI.