Help HTC EVO 4G LTE Camera Specs and Discussion

[bupolo]

when it's released? How is it supposed to compare to the S3?

Also, the rapid picture modes and single shot while taking a video are cool, but I'd much prefer just better regular pictures . . .

Also, will it get any of those camera attachments that I've seen for the iphone? That'd be nice

 

[LatinP]

The S3 doesn't bring anything new to the table as far as camera hardware goes, they went with software fixes to save costs (cut corners?).

 

[Sauske]

when it's released? How is it supposed to compare to the S3?

Also, the rapid picture modes and single shot while taking a video are cool, but I'd much prefer just better regular pictures . . .

Also, will it get any of those camera attachments that I've seen for the iphone? That'd be nice

HTC can record video and take stills at 8MP, while Samsung record video and take stills at 6MP. Samsung can do 20 burst shot max, while HTC can do 99 burst shot max.

The S3 doesn't bring anything new to the table as far as camera hardware goes, they went with software fixes to save costs (cut corners?).

Yep, software base!

 

[NeoteriX]

I expect this to be moved here shortly: http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-4g-lte/542768-compare-contrast-opinions-gsiii-vs-evo-4g-lte.html

But if not, you should visit that thread and read. Members here have posted comparison shots and discussed in details the differences in camera hardware between the the LTEvo and the GSIII.

In short, of what we know so far, the LTEvo has a wider aperture lens (f2.0) that results in better low-light photography (but a such a wide aperture lens can also introduce more lens abberations and reduce sharpness), uses a separate and dedicated ISP for its imaging pipeline, and uses a year-ish-old sensor that has been featured in the GSII and HTC Mytouch 4G Slide.

The GSIII features a brand-new Samsung sensor that has not even been announced for broader use, so yes, there is a hardware component in play when it comes to questions about image quality on the GSIII. The sensor could be more sensitive, collect light better, etc.

We're all looking for comparative tests and such to determine which is "better" but they are both "good" as far as the demo shots have revealed. Again, read the thread to see more in-depth comments by me and others on comparing the photos.

 

[bupolo]

Yah, I was skimming through it, but with over 300 posts, I thought this may be entitled to its own thread? So many of the things between the phones will not be noticeable to most in regular day use, but the camera is something many use on a daily basis. That the LTEvo is using a year old sensor is very disheartening, unless the new S3 sensor is worse is some way? You'd have thought with all the bonuses they were putting into the new camera, they'd have used a top of the line sensor.

The camera+single shot or 20 shot bursts are cool, but I just want my phone to be able to stand in place of standalone cameras. I still have the OG Evo, so I'm sure any of these cameras will be a substantial upgrade (right?)...

 

[EarlyMon]

I think that it's more than a safe bet that the LTEvo camera will be a big step up up from your Evo.

As for replacing an actual camera, that's up to you.

I still shoot film, and I come from the school that says the fanciest camera doesn't count if you don't have it with you and the best camera in the world is the one you have at the moment.

Life is full of pictures waiting, no needing, to be taken throughout each and every day.

But technically, between the lens, sensor and software, no phone camera yet matches a real camera.

The problem with the comparison thread, to me, is that the information we have is from phone reviewers, not camera reviewers and not actual users who have some idea of what they're doing.

I think that the camera in the LTEvo holds great promise and may yet make best phone camera of 2012, but we haven't really found what Samsung, Sony or Apple will really be capable of this year.

If the LTEvo camera isn't the best of 2012, it's going to be among the top ones.

And if some clever dev intercepts the raw image data, conceivably only possible with this HTC camera class, then it may be game over for purists set up to post process that raw data. We'll have to see if that will happen or remain just a pipe dream tho.

 

[NeoteriX]

Yah, I was skimming through it, but with over 300 posts, I thought this may be entitled to its own thread? So many of the things between the phones will not be noticeable to most in regular day use, but the camera is something many use on a daily basis. That the LTEvo is using a year old sensor is very disheartening, unless the new S3 sensor is worse is some way? You'd have thought with all the bonuses they were putting into the new camera, they'd have used a top of the line sensor.

The camera+single shot or 20 shot bursts are cool, but I just want my phone to be able to stand in place of standalone cameras. I still have the OG Evo, so I'm sure any of these cameras will be a substantial upgrade (right?)...

Well the fact that it's a year-old sensor could mean a lot of things. For one, it's a time-tested sensor, well known sensor that can produce great results. The HTC MyTouch 4G Slide (for which the One X shares the sensor) has a reputation for being one of the best Android camera phones you can buy in the US (so not counting the Sony Android phones or Nokia non-Android phones). It could be that HTC saw the praise for the HTC MyTouch 4G Slide and knew that at a minimum, the sensor would be a safe bet.

The second consideration is that, it could very well be that HTC simply does not even have access to the newer sensors. You can't buy what's not being sold and it's clear Samsung is saving the newest technology for itself. Newer isn't always better though, and how "new" a sensor is could mean a lot of things -- maybe improvement in cost at equal performance, maybe improvement in performance, maybe improvement in size/packaging, it's hard to know with this sensor as it is so new.

Finally, the sensor plays a big, but not exclusive, role in image quality. The lens plays the other big half.

I have some notes here: http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-4g...inions-gsiii-vs-evo-4g-lte-7.html#post4383860

based on the images here: http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-4g...inions-gsiii-vs-evo-4g-lte-7.html#post4383670


There is a lot going on in these images, but one early interpretation is that the GSIII's newer sensor is paying dividends in noise reduction, but that the lens of the HOX is resolving more detail. However, this assessment could be a function of aggressive software noise reduction and not native sensor noise. It's hard to say.

 

[EarlyMon]

^Also, that noise difference could change depending on the ISO setting used.

 

[bupolo]

Well the fact that it's a year-old sensor could mean a lot of things. For one, it's a time-tested sensor, well known sensor that can produce great results. The HTC MyTouch 4G Slide (for which the One X shares the sensor) has a reputation for being one of the best Android camera phones you can buy in the US (so not counting the Sony Android phones or Nokia non-Android phones). It could be that HTC saw the praise for the HTC MyTouch 4G Slide and knew that at a minimum, the sensor would be a safe bet.

The second consideration is that, it could very well be that HTC simply does not even have access to the newer sensors. You can't buy what's not being sold and it's clear Samsung is saving the newest technology for itself. Newer isn't always better though, and how "new" a sensor is could mean a lot of things -- maybe improvement in cost at equal performance, maybe improvement in performance, maybe improvement in size/packaging, it's hard to know with this sensor as it is so new.

All very good points, thanks for the input and the cite to your specific comparisons, it's helpful. At this point I think it'd take some pretty dramatic for me to get something else over the LTEvo, but a substantially better camera could do it.

 

[PyroSporker]

I think that the camera in the LTEvo holds great promise and may yet make best phone camera of 2012, but we haven't really found what Samsung, Sony or Apple will really be capable of this year.

If the LTEvo camera isn't the best of 2012, it's going to be among the top ones.

And if some clever dev intercepts the raw image data, conceivably only possible with this HTC camera class, then it may be game over for purists set up to post process that raw data. We'll have to see if that will happen or remain just a pipe dream tho.

It should maybe be clarified how they are ranked. Picture quality? Overall Camera experience? Other?

There is not a chance that The One X, or by extension, Evo 4G LTE will have the best phone based camera of 2012.

Nokia 808 with PureView holds that title by a longshot. It is not even a competition. I don't see anything coming out from another manufacturer by the end of the year that can eclipse it. Nokia could always try to top itself. Top quality along with a great experience I'm sure of. Not to mention more technical options than any other handset camera. If it was feasible for me to be with AT&T it would be highly probable I would be getting the 808, import or otherwise.

Even the Nokia N8, which came out nearly 2 years ago has (arguably) on par and better overall quality shots than the One X. More detail, less noise. Nokia is ahead of the curve.

Now, that is not to say that the Evo 4G LTE camera is bad. In fact it may fall in the lower spectrum of top tier of camera phones by years end, however there is still 6 months to go. There is alot of competition, and even competition amongst single manufacturers. The Windows Phone based HTC Titan II has been regarded with a stupendous 16MP camera which is on par or better than the One X. (Just remember it is not all about the MP's)

A Samsung Phone using a newer withheld Samsung camera sensor I would think will almost no doubt have an inherent advantage over an HTC phone using a Samsung sensor. HTC's ImageSense chip makes up alot of the difference but can it overcome?
Samsung, using their own hardware along with their own software, which they can write code and program for better than anyone else, provides a distinct advantage.

Sony does ok too, and should not be counted out.
Apple will be a factor.
LG has some serious ground to make up, but they shouldn't be counted out either. The LG Eclipse for example is rumored have a 13MP shooter on board. Depending on what hardware and optics they end up with, and how that is flushed out, along with how they implement it software wise, they could land a few punches in the fall. Like I said before, it is not all about the MP's though. (chances seem low they can gain enough ground camera wise)

All that being said, the One X and Evo 4G LTE are not slouches camera wise, and earn alot of points with overall experience and interface (ImageSense will likely prove integral). Staying with Sprint makes the most sense for me at this point and My Evo 4G LTE is on its way and I will be quite satisfied with it as a camera I'm certain. However I maintain no allusions that the One-X/Evo 4G LTE camera will be the top, or near the top, of the list of best phone based cameras of 2012. Like you are saying it will be a shoot out for the secondary and tertiary rankings though.

 

[NeoteriX]

^Also, that noise difference could change depending on the ISO setting used.

ISO definitely plays a factor, but I'm ok with "ignoring" it, in a sense. I'm assuming here that the test shots are all "auto" mode, so everything rests on that assumption, so --

The ISO here is a careful part of the balance played between shutter speed and aperture for the ultimate light metering and exposure. It's on HTC to carefully manage these three factors in a variety of light settings and subjects so that motion blur/camera shake is minimized, noise is minimized, and the scene is exposed "just right."

If a reviewer is stepping out on a nice sunny day and taking photos of the city (like in the test shots) and the camera is, for whatever reason, shooting at an ISO that is too high for sun lighting (outdoors sunlight usually = lowest ISO), then that's on the camera/phone/HTC, and the fault lies with their programming/calibration. Yes, we could manually adjust the ISO down, but in my view, consumers shouldn't have to deal with adjusting the ISO to fit the conditions on a camera phone (or any Auto shooting for that matter).

In a controlled test environment, I'd want to match up the exposures, and test for ISO noise at each ISO rating, and that would be for my personal nerdy benefit, but otherwise, I think it's probably fair to be judging real work test cases for what they are.

 

[NeoteriX]

All that being said, the One X and Evo 4G LTE are not slouches camera wise, and earn alot of points with overall experience and interface (ImageSense will likely prove integral). Staying with Sprint makes the most sense for me at this point and My Evo 4G LTE is on its way and I will be quite satisfied with it as a camera I'm certain. However I maintain no allusions that the One-X/Evo 4G LTE camera will be the top, or near the top, of the list of best phone based cameras of 2012. Like you are saying it will be a shoot out for the secondary and tertiary rankings though.

Right. At a minimum though -- it looks to be lightyears beyond what the Evo 4G and Evo 3D can do, which is most important to me. Though time may reveal that it's not the one cameraphone to rule them all, it looks to be more than competent enough for me to feel comfortable that it can substitute as my personal camera most days of the week.

 

[EarlyMon]

ISO definitely plays a factor, but I'm ok with "ignoring" it, in a sense. I'm assuming here that the test shots are all "auto" mode, so everything rests on that assumption, so --

The ISO here is a careful part of the balance played between shutter speed and aperture for the ultimate light metering and exposure. It's on HTC to carefully manage these three factors in a variety of light settings and subjects so that motion blur/camera shake is minimized, noise is minimized, and the scene is exposed "just right."

If a reviewer is stepping out on a nice sunny day and taking photos of the city (like in the test shots) and the camera is, for whatever reason, shooting at an ISO that is too high for sun lighting (outdoors sunlight usually = lowest ISO), then that's on the camera/phone/HTC, and the fault lies with their programming/calibration. Yes, we could manually adjust the ISO down, but in my view, consumers shouldn't have to deal with adjusting the ISO to fit the conditions on a camera phone (or any Auto shooting for that matter).

In a controlled test environment, I'd want to match up the exposures, and test for ISO noise at each ISO rating, and that would be for my personal nerdy benefit, but otherwise, I think it's probably fair to be judging real work test cases for what they are.

Fair enough and probably the majority opinion.

A few counterpoints though - until I use any phone camera with an auto exposure that actually works, I won't be trusting the auto at all. Perhaps other feel that way, but we're probably the minority.

Next - this is the first revision of Image Sense. If it's something as simple as auto exposure and auto color balancing, then those things might get fixed in some future update. No promises of course, but those things might. Bad hardware just can't be compensated for with software. Best you can do is try post-processing, and if I'm not mistaken, you were the one to post birdhouse and gazebo photos from the Evo and iPhone and challenge for color matching and detailing. While many argued, it simply couldn't be done. I always thought it was the iPhone's superior hardware (software too, at that time).

Finally - while the good old shutter button is nice and all, the number one thing I missed on the 3vo from the Evo was the ability to spot meter, focus, and shoot right from the glass. I absolutely hate averaged light metering, absolutely prefer spot metering. Again, I may be in the minority, but not really sure on that.

PS -

There is not a chance that The One X, or by extension, Evo 4G LTE will have the best phone based camera of 2012.

Nokia 808 with PureView holds that title by a longshot.

I agree, mention of Nokia at all was missing from my short list.

Maybe part of it you could call snobbery on my part - but I thought of the Nokia and I thought of relevance.

I tried to imagine pictures being so important to me, I'd carry a Nokia. And then I tried to imagine just carrying a camera instead and in addition to a good Android phone.

I'm someone too used to carrying a camera (for decades). Would I like to have a better camera in my cell phone and do that less? Yep, sure, who wouldn't and why not? But at the price of carrying a Nokia - no thanks. Then again, a phone camera is only a secondary or tertiary feature for me.

So, while the Nokia may be technically better in every regard - I don't include it because it's not relevant to me.

As always, this applies to all readers - your mileage may vary.

A Samsung Phone using a newer withheld Samsung camera sensor I would think will almost no doubt have an inherent advantage over an HTC phone using a Samsung sensor. HTC's ImageSense chip makes up alot of the difference but can it overcome?

Respectfully disagree completely.

Personally, I still think everyone getting hung up on the new sensor is missing that the sensor can only do one thing better - signal to noise ratio. That ties to two factors - the light sensitivity and the electronics noise floor.

When you put that new sensor behind an F/2.0 lens, then there's something to compare.

Until then, that _possibly_ superior sensor (something we don't know yet) has to overcome the light loss from a smaller aperature.

And that's not nothing in photography, yes?

 

[PyroSporker]

Respectfully disagree completely.

Personally, I still think everyone getting hung up on the new sensor is missing that the sensor can only do one thing better - signal to noise ratio. That ties to two factors - the light sensitivity and the electronics noise floor.

When you put that new sensor behind an F/2.0 lens, then there's something to compare.

Until then, that possibly superior sensor (something we don't know yet) has to overcome the light loss from a smaller aperture.

Doh! Certainly an oversight on my part. When I typed that initial portion I was still halfway stuck in a mindframe that has the Evo 4G LTE and Galaxy S III using the same Samsung camera sensor. A controlled variable of sorts. I added the "new and withheld" bit after rescanning Neo's post about the new Samsung sensor. I had forgotten we had received new possible intel on the Galaxy S III sensor.

It started as a nearly (ImageSense unbalances it) direct comparison in my brain, but it is not at this point anymore when the sensors will likely be different. It remains a theoretical idea and cracked hypothesis by me.

(it would be kinda fun if they had the same sensor, we could eliminate some of the guesswork - and open a more detailed comparison)

 

[dogshed]

Here are some things I've noticed so far. After putting in a memory card the camera app asked me if I want to use the sdcard for storage. I can't get it to go back to using the camera memory. I push the button, but it still only shows the pictures that were on the card.

In the settings there is a menu item called developer options. Pointer Location is cool. Try it.

 

[dogshed]

I plugged the phone into the computer so I could delete some stuff off the card. The camera now only uses the phone memory.
I unplug and turn on the camera and it asks if I want to switch to the storage card.
I said yes. I took a picture and looked in the viewer. It only shows card pictures even after switching the radio button to camera storage.

 

[KenjiSpencer]

I thought that pressing the camera button with the display off was supposed to wake up the phone and activate the camera app, but when I press the camera button, nothing happens. Is that the case for everyone else?

 

[PyroSporker]

I thought that pressing the camera button with the display off was supposed to wake up the phone and activate the camera app, but when I press the camera button, nothing happens. Is that the case for everyone else?

While pre-release/marketing handsets had this ability, it appears that for the final consumer units they left this ability out of the software for whatever reason.

It should be easy enough to add back to the software if enough people request it of HTC. Or easy to achieve it through rooting. Ask your favorite ROM maker to bake it in to the settings.

 

[Sauske]

I thought that pressing the camera button with the display off was supposed to wake up the phone and activate the camera app, but when I press the camera button, nothing happens. Is that the case for everyone else?

I guess that is to prevent you from accidentally taking pics! If you are a person who roots (which I am) I'm sure a rom from multiple devs will have this feature!

 

[EarlyMon]

Posts moved in from another thread.

 

[Deleted User]

Yeah same issue. Kind of disappointed.

Button feels cheap, too..

 

[hsh.shawn]

I really enjoy this camera so far. I am not a pro and the camera is never a huge factor in my phone purchases, but I really enjoy this camera and could see myself using it more with some of the great features.

IF you haven't tried them yet check out the HDR camera I have some cool shots with that(I know its not true HDR but still cool). Also the group photo shot is handy it snaps 4 or 5 photos and combines the best of each person I have not seen that on a phone yet either. Slow motion video is a bit grainy but I think as a novelty could be fun to play with.

I will be interested to see what sort of settings people come up with to get different results with the camera. As I know very little about ISO settings and what to adjust to correct certain issues I will wait for a guideline or a starting point.

 

[ZepTepi]

This might sound like a strange request but could one of you new LTEvo take and post a closeup pic of a penny?

I use my OGEvo camera to take pics of equipment to send to vendors sometimes and have been disappointed that the camera doesn't take clearer close-up pics that show details like small print. I'm very curious as to how the LTEvo compares in that regard.

 

[hootie]

This might sound like a strange request but could one of you new LTEvo take and post a closeup pic of a penny?

I use my OGEvo camera to take pics of equipment to send to vendors sometimes and have been disappointed that the camera doesn't take clearer close-up pics that show details like small print. I'm very curious as to how the LTEvo compares in that regard.

Here you go...

 

[hootie]

Trying to get 2 better ones without it overly zoomed in.