The Official: "I'm Mad They Closed the ***Official HTC Incredible Thread*** Thread"

[TechGeekPro]

Have at it....

 

[YamiYaiba]

/signs name here

RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!! Mkay, I feel a little better for now.

Kudos on opening this thread though. I considered it myself, but didn't want to take the full risk of the tyrannical mods and their mighty

 

[Anonimac]

nice...

One suggestion...and i was thinking about doing this myself...i think it would be good to get a feel for how broad the actual support for the old thread was.

So...

I would say create a poll, asking people for their direct preference in the sub-forum.

1. I prefer the old ***Official HTC Incredible*** thread and it's approach to topics, moderation, etc...
2. I don't have a preference
3. I prefer new threads to be created for new news, with each staying on its exact topics, and close moderation

I'm curious what the results are...it may drive our decision to either stay on androidforums or go elsewhere. I'm sure there are places out there that won't mind half a million people worth of visits (read: add revenue, click revenue, etc...)

 

[eipee73]

I had to put a thanks on there for the BAN HAMMER haha that's priceless

 

[vido.ardes]

I love it, "Tyrannical Mods with an Almighty Ban Hammer"...

Yes a thread was closed, and yes, some of you are unhappy about it. I understand that, but your all acting like we destroyed the forum.

No one was Banned, either temporarily or permanently.
No one received an infraction.
No one was spoken to, publicly or privately on an individual level.

A thread was closed after hundreds of off topic posts and at the very least 3 separate requests to keep it on topic. The thread is still available to view. Don't you think this has been blown just a smidgen out of proportion?

 

[Reginald VelJohnson]

A thread was closed after hundreds of off topic posts and at the very least 3 separate requests to keep it on topic. The thread is still available to view. Don't you think this has been blown just a smidgen out of proportion?

Ok, since we have you here and you seem to be a rational individual, perhaps I can ask you a question.

How do we define what is off-topic when discussing a phone that has not been released nor officially announced or even confirmed? There are obviously some clear-cut areas, but there is a LOT of gray, especially considering how little is official from HTC or Verizon. Many complaints relate to this gray area.

And should not the same standards apply to all posters?

 

[Anonimac]

I love it, "Tyrannical Mods with an Almighty Ban Hammer"...

Yes a thread was closed, and yes, some of you are unhappy about it. I understand that, but your all acting like we destroyed the forum.

No one was Banned, either temporarily or permanently.
No one received an infraction.
No one was spoken to, publicly or privately on an individual level.

A thread was closed after hundreds of off topic posts and at the very least 3 separate requests to keep it on topic. The thread is still available to view. Don't you think this has been blown just a smidgen out of proportion?

vido.ardes, let me ask you this very seriously...is there any mechanism for re-opening a thread?

I think many of us feel a certain pride with that thread, its size, the incredibly valuable information that it produced (among the much smaller set of "noise"), all information tipped by large reputable sites (Engadget, Gizmodo, etc...) came from that thread, it had 7000k+ posts, over 300k visits, so i think we can all agree it was doing SOMETHING right.

If we can agree to manage the obnoxious minority tacticly (as i've said before...this implies WITH TACT), through individual warnings/infractions/bans, why can't that thread be re-opened and continue?

 

[YamiYaiba]

nice...

One suggestion...and i was thinking about doing this myself...i think it would be good to get a feel for how broad the actual support for the old thread was.

So...

I would say create a poll, asking people for their direct preference in the sub-forum.

1. I prefer the old ***Official HTC Incredible*** thread and it's approach to topics, moderation, etc...
2. I don't have a preference
3. I prefer new threads to be created for new news, with each staying on its exact topics, and close moderation

I'm curious what the results are...it may drive our decision to either stay on androidforums or go elsewhere. I'm sure there are places out there that won't mind half a million people worth of visits (read: add revenue, click revenue, etc...)

Agreed. Hopefully a poll which, I suspect, will strongly show that people were largely okay with the original thread's banter.

Mods, I'm sure you all are reading this thread. I do understand the desire to keep things organized. I do understand that some users did NOT like the way the thread was done. But time and again, we suggested they start threads for strictly news or strictly for banter. Not only did most of them not do so, the ones that did never took off. Why? My suspicion is that people were happy in the main thread. Now, as far as deleting/censoring posts, just stop it please. Short of being outright inflammatory and insulting, this is unacceptable to me in a forum. Sure, the idle banter about states, regions, and schools is WAAAY off topic. But in a forum with regular posters with character, these posts are funny and relieve the hyped up tension we are all dealing with over this phone. Comic relief goes a long way toward relieving fanaticism.

vido.ardes, let me ask you this very seriously...is there any mechanism for re-opening a thread?

I think many of us feel a certain pride with that thread, its size, the incredibly valuable information that it produced (among the much smaller set of "noise"), all information tipped by large reputable sites (Engadget, Gizmodo, etc...) came from that thread, it had 7000k+ posts, over 300k visits, so i think we can all agree it was doing SOMETHING right.

Edit: Also, I've been wondering this myself. Obviously the attempt closing the thread only resulted in a repeat of it under a new name, and the same threats with, likely, the same result on the horizon. It has also triggered people asking questions that could be found in the prior thread fairly easily.

 

[eipee73]

I love it, "Tyrannical Mods with an Almighty Ban Hammer"...

Yes a thread was closed, and yes, some of you are unhappy about it. I understand that, but your all acting like we destroyed the forum.

No one was Banned, either temporarily or permanently.
No one received an infraction.
No one was spoken to, publicly or privately on an individual level.

A thread was closed after hundreds of off topic posts and at the very least 3 separate requests to keep it on topic. The thread is still available to view. Don't you think this has been blown just a smidgen out of proportion?

I think most of the people that are upset are the ones that have been BSing on here since we were talking about the Incredible/Bravo/Passion in the passion subtopic before the N1 was even out. They have moved threads so many times that I think they're just getting tired of doing so. I understand there were a lot of off topic things, but with so many people involved especially people that had been here for months trying to find out about the same thing it seems only natural to have casual conversation. I understand that you guys didn't want the chatter and there were some complaints, but I thought it was handled decently by the users, Anonimac specifically, as he continually updated the first post. Users tried to direct others to that post, but I guess it just didn't seem to work out. I don't disagree that it may be a touch out of proportion, but I can see both sides.

I do agree with many people in saying that thread alone probably brought a lot of new users and a lot of traffic to the site. After seeing it referenced by so many articles it's hard not to believe that. Thus when everyone thinks they're contributing to a good thing they feel slighted when it's taken away.

Just my .02, take it for what it's worth I suppose.


PS...C'mon, the BAN HAMMER pic is hilarious, I knew you guys didn't ban people from that thread, but even so, I chuckled.

 

[MrSmoofy]

I love it, "Tyrannical Mods with an Almighty Ban Hammer"...

Yes a thread was closed, and yes, some of you are unhappy about it. I understand that, but your all acting like we destroyed the forum.

No one was Banned, either temporarily or permanently.
No one received an infraction.
No one was spoken to, publicly or privately on an individual level.

A thread was closed after hundreds of off topic posts and at the very least 3 separate requests to keep it on topic. The thread is still available to view. Don't you think this has been blown just a smidgen out of proportion?

Should of just changed the name of the thread

 

[Beo]

As a n00b who was drawn to this forum (along with countless others) for the first time exclusively because of the aforementioned thread, I question the wisdom of closing a thread that has driven so much traffic to this site in the past couple of weeks.

As a newcomer to the forum, I was pretty excited about the information I found here and the general goodwill and cameraderie of the participants, but when the ax fell, it made me want to start looking elsewhere for news.

Check the number of page views that thread generated, and ask yourself, "was closing this thread the best decision we could have made vis-a-vis our revenue stream and/or attracting new readers?"



*ducks beneath the banhammer swing*

 

[Reginald VelJohnson]

The answer: Unlock and merge the Official and Unofficial threads and rename them to "Pre-release Incredible (and related topics) Discussion". Be resigned to a little off-topic banter for the time being, but reserve the right to do a little housecleaning of the absolute worst of it. Keep the sticky as a repository of what we "know". People are always free to start a new thread if there is specific issue they want to discuss.

When the Incredible is officially announced, lock the merged megathread with a final post from a mod about how we now need to move to individual topic-related threads, keep the sticky updated as the authoritative source on what we then actually KNOW. If Anonimac can keep up with it, I foresee that thread becoming an almost-Wiki like source of knowledge.

Easy peasy.

 

[YamiYaiba]

Should of just changed the name of the thread

lol see my previous edit

PS...C'mon, the BAN HAMMER pic is hilarious, I knew you guys didn't ban people from that thread, but even so, I chuckled.

Thanks. And I know they didn't ban people....just the thread and the concept of idle banter

EDIT

The answer: Unlock and merge the Official and Unofficial threads and rename them to "Pre-release Incredible (and related topics) Discussion". Be resigned to a little off-topic banter for the time being, but reserve the right to do a little housecleaning of the absolute worst of it. Keep the sticky as a repository of what we "know". People are always free to start a new thread if there is specific issue they want to discuss.

When the Incredible is officially announced, lock the merged megathread with a final post from a mod about how we now need to move to individual topic-related threads, keep the sticky updated as the authoritative source on what we then actually KNOW.

Easy peasy.

Agreed


DOUBLE EDIT:
I know not everyone has the time to read through a lot of gibberish and banter, but many of the complainers just wanted to be spoon-fed the facts. Anonimac gave them more than many of these people probably deserved and thoroughly update the first post with the latest rumors and confirmations. About the only thing more that could have been done would be to have created an RSS feed with just first post worthy info.

 

[vido.ardes]

Ok, since we have you here and you seem to be a rational individual, perhaps I can ask you a question.

How do we define what is off-topic when discussing a phone that has not been released nor officially announced or even confirmed? There are obviously some clear-cut areas, but there is a LOT of gray, especially considering how little is official from HTC or Verizon. Many complaints relate to this gray area.

And should not the same standards apply to all posters?

Off topic is defined as something that doesn't pertain to the thread. The thread was for info about the Incredible. Off topic meant 6 pages of post not even related to phones.

Speculation, rumours, wish lists for features, even just making crap up about it... it's still all about the phone. That's fine, it's good, we want to encourage it, but we repeatedly got complaints that the thread was getting too difficult to read, no one could find information. I have now sticked the thread with all the important info, so this should make life easier as long as it is kept up to date.

vido.ardes, let me ask you this very seriously...is there any mechanism for re-opening a thread?

I think many of us feel a certain pride with that thread, its size, the incredibly valuable information that it produced (among the much smaller set of "noise"), all information tipped by large reputable sites (Engadget, Gizmodo, etc...) came from that thread, it had 7000k+ posts, over 300k visits, so i think we can all agree it was doing SOMETHING right.

If we can agree to manage the obnoxious minority tacticaly (as i've said before...this implies WITH TACT), through individual warnings/infractions/bans, why can't that thread be re-opened and continue?

Yes, closed threads can be unlocked. I will be discussing it with the admins and the other mods as to whether or not we feel it is in the best interest of the forum and it's users to re-instate it. That being said, the way alot of users have reacted into trying to goad and provoke the mods after the thread was closed isn't promising, and I can only see I tirade of "look, they know they were wrong, we were right, stupid mods" posts. I will however promise you it will be discussed as a genuine option.

I appreciate that the thread has a lot of valuable information in it, and there were a lot of good contributors to it. It was just getting to the point were micro managing it to make sure the quality of the thread staying high was becoming a full time job. The more users that are driven to this site via that thread means the content of thread has to be better. It's no good if people are following the link to this site, ending up in that thread and then seeing pages of posts that don't even mention the incredible is it? Surely you can appreciate that

 

[Anonimac]

The answer: Unlock and merge the Official and Unofficial threads and rename them to "Pre-release Incredible (and related topics) Discussion". Be resigned to a little off-topic banter for the time being, but reserve the right to do a little housecleaning of the absolute worst of it. Keep the sticky as a repository of what we "know". People are always free to start a new thread if there is specific issue they want to discuss.

When the Incredible is officially announced, lock the merged megathread with a final post from a mod about how we now need to move to individual topic-related threads, keep the sticky updated as the authoritative source on what we then actually KNOW. If Anonimac can keep up with it, I foresee that thread becoming an almost-Wiki like source of knowledge.

Easy peasy.

All i'll say is, if they do merge them and reopen, <thug voice>let me run that mutha' ****a' and see wha' happens!</thug voice>

 

[Reginald VelJohnson]

Off topic is defined as something that doesn't pertain to the thread. The thread was for info about the Incredible. Off topic meant 6 pages of post not even related to phones.

Speculation, rumours, wish lists for features, even just making crap up about it... it's still all about the phone. That's fine, it's good, we want to encourage it, but we repeatedly got complaints that the thread was getting too difficult to read, no one could find information. I have now sticked the thread with all the important info, so this should make life easier as long as it is kept up to date.

That seems reasonable, I can work within those constraints.

Can I ask for clarification on a specific issue? What about the iPhone/Apple lawsuit? I know a lot of people complained about that being off-topic, but it seemed dead-on to me.

Edit: We don't want the mods to have to waste their time micromanaging a thread, but as it becomes more clear what is and is not allowed, I believe this forum will fall into line. This is especially true since we have a lot of reasonable people that, I believe, will self-police.

 

[vido.ardes]

That seems reasonable, I can work within those constraints.

Can I ask for clarification on a specific issue? What about the iPhone/Apple lawsuit? I know a lot of people complained about that being off-topic, but it seemed dead-on to me.

Edit: We don't want the mods to have to waste their time micromanaging a thread, but as it becomes more clear what is and is not allowed, I believe this forum will fall into line. This is especially true since we have a lot of reasonable people that, I believe, will self-police.

If I am honest, I didn't see that part of he thread, but if the conversation was about whether the lawsuit would affect the release or the ability to include multitouch, then I would personally say it's fie. If was just generally about the the lawsuit, then there are other places in the forum to discus that.

EDIT: A good definition of off topic is the current new thread. That last half a page is about football. This is the sort of stuff we want to keep elsewhere

 

[billsmed]

I love it, "Tyrannical Mods with an Almighty Ban Hammer"...

Yes a thread was closed, and yes, some of you are unhappy about it. I understand that, but your all acting like we destroyed the forum.

No one was Banned, either temporarily or permanently.
No one received an infraction.
No one was spoken to, publicly or privately on an individual level.

A thread was closed after hundreds of off topic posts and at the very least 3 separate requests to keep it on topic. The thread is still available to view. Don't you think this has been blown just a smidgen out of proportion?

With all due respect, I don't think it was blown out of proportion at all. I understand why there needs to be mods and I understand why some posts need to be removed, especially if they're vulgar, slanderous, indecent, obscene, or pornographic, but to remove posts because they were off-topic is uncalled for.

Since you asked if it was blown out of proportion, I would just like to say that I personally think what was done was demoralizing and it felt like a low-blow. You make it sound like we're a bunch of babies and it was no big deal that you closed the thread, but I found your actions disrespectful to everyone that posted in that thread and I found it repulsive. Sorry.

For the record, I didn't have a problem with it when you closed those Bravo threads where there was a lot of fighting going on, but it was nothing like that in this case.

Again, with all do respect, I appreciate what you're doing, but I just wish you'd think about it and maybe handle it a little different next time.

Thank you,

Bill

 

[YamiYaiba]

Off topic is defined as something that doesn't pertain to the thread. The thread was for info about the Incredible. Off topic meant 6 pages of post not even related to phones.

Speculation, rumours, wish lists for features, even just making crap up about it... it's still all about the phone. That's fine, it's good, we want to encourage it, but we repeatedly got complaints that the thread was getting too difficult to read, no one could find information. I have now sticked the thread with all the important info, so this should make life easier as long as it is kept up to date.



Yes, closed threads can be unlocked. I will be discussing it with the admins and the other mods as to whether or not we feel it is in the best interest of the forum and it's users to re-instate it. That being said, the way alot of users have reacted into trying to goad and provoke the mods after the thread was closed isn't promising, and I can only see I tirade of "look, they know they were wrong, we were right, stupid mods" posts. I will however promise you it will be discussed as a genuine option.

I appreciate that the thread has a lot of valuable information in it, and there were a lot of good contributors to it. It was just getting to the point were micro managing it to make sure the quality of the thread staying high was becoming a full time job. The more users that are driven to this site via that thread means the content of thread has to be better. It's no good if people are following the link to this site, ending up in that thread and then seeing pages of posts that don't even mention the incredible is it? Surely you can appreciate that

I'm sure that there will be some further "suck it mods! we rawk!" and "omg this is ridiculous" talk if the thread gets reopened. Just as the current thread, 19 pages in, is still full of arguing over this very issue. The thread will never be perfect. I also am aware that you do not expect perfection, just a certain standard of quality. We have a bunch of very sociable, mature, funny posters around here. Jokes will be made. Off topic ones. Personally, I think there is not ideal solution to this issue.

I don't mean to judge or but words in the mouths of the mods, but based on past behavior, I suspect if the thread it reopened, it will come with a strong warning to stay on-topic lest we face closure/bannings/etc once more. Quite honestly, if you all decide this is the plan, I'd rather leave it closed. It will whip up such and anti-mod fury it isn't even funny. There is already small amount of talk of exodus to another board, and I'd hate to see such a well coordinated community of posters separated over all this. I don't say this to be arrogant or to make threats, but we have given AF quite the surge around here. I sense that the mods are in danger of taking a huge chunk out of this. I do not want that.

EDIT: As stated above, many of us feel as though we were treated as children in need of a spanking. That is a large part of our anger, I suspect. And perhaps some of our response is childish. Nonetheless, it was still a low blow. We were pretty good about running a mature thread.

 

[Beo]

Understood. Thanks for humoring us. IMHO, the Lockhammer was way more destructive than the Banhammer would have been as far as keeping things on topic.

...
EDIT: A good definition of off topic is the current new thread. That last half a page is about football. This is the sort of stuff we want to keep elsewhere

Agreed... but can we address those individuals this time instead of locking the thread and taking away a forum that has been a valuable source of information to the rest of us?

 

[Anonimac]

With all due respect, I don't think it was blown out of proportion at all. I understand why there needs to be mods and I understand why some posts need to be removed, especially if they're vulgar, slanderous, indecent, obscene, or pornographic, but to remove posts because they were off-topic is uncalled for.

Since you asked if it was blown out of proportion, I would just like to say that I personally think what was done was demoralizing and it felt like a low-blow. You make it sound like we're a bunch of babies and it was no big deal that you closed the thread, but I found your actions disrespectful to everyone that posted in that thread and I found it repulsive. Sorry.

For the record, I didn't have a problem with it when you closed those Bravo threads where there was a lot of fighting going on, but it was nothing like that in this case.

Again, with all do respect, I appreciate what you're doing, but I just wish you'd think about it and maybe handle it a little different next time.

Thank you,

Bill

Bill, one small, but i think important, clarification...

Not all posters are created equal, nor are all mods. The Mod speaking to us here is not the same person who was involved in the original thread. There is a distinct difference in tone and tact, which i appreciate, so what we have HERE is exactly what we always look for from a Mod...voice of reason and a willingness to discuss.

 

[vido.ardes]

Bill, one small, but i think important, clarification...

Not all posters are created equal, nor are all mods. The Mod speaking to us here is not the same person who was involved in the original thread. There is a distinct difference in tone and tact, which i appreciate, so what we have HERE is exactly what we always look for from a Mod...voice of reason and a willingness to discuss.

Thank you, I was about to point out I am just trying to adjudicate here... I originally entered this thread because I am genuinely interested in how many people are glad it was locked, and how many wish it wasn't.

That's not to say I am going against the original mods decision, just that I am willing to hear both sides

 

[greggds]

Anonimac...can you do that poll you mentioned?

 

[Reginald VelJohnson]

Thank you, I was about to point out I am just trying to adjudicate here... I originally entered this thread because I am genuinely interested in how many people are glad it was locked, and how many wish it wasn't.

That's not to say I am going against the original mods decision, just that I am willing to hear both sides

Not trying to be a mini-mod, but I think the reaction to this post shows we're more than willing to act like adults when we're treated like ones.

Thanks for opening the lines of communication, this subforum needed it.

 

[YamiYaiba]

Thank you, I was about to point out I am just trying to adjudicate here... I originally entered this thread because I am genuinely interested in how many people are glad it was locked, and how many wish it wasn't.

That's not to say I am going against the original mods decision, just that I am willing to hear both sides

And for that, we thank and appreciate you. After my first RAGE post in here (had to vent, lol), I figured we might make some headway. I really appreciate you hearing us out. Is there a way to give Anonimac some kind of lesser (or even full) mod privileges? He's shown he does an excellent job us managing things and has a good head on him. If such a thing were possible, I'd nominate him to have some kind of authority to run the Incredible thread. Sorry if I'm barking up too many trees at once, but it's a thought. It would take the load off the current mods, some.