Voting Fraud

[OutofDate1980]

The current drive by the some politicians to disenfranchise voters by requiring government mandated voting ID, restricting early voting , absentee voting and registering to vote is a waste of money to solve a problem that doesn't exist. This drive has one goal only, to take away the right of voting by citizens.

If politicians were serious about preventing fraudulent elections then attack the real problem which is voting machines that can be tampered with to disenfranchise a large portion of the citizens to have their vote correctly tallied.

Requiring Open Source code and independent software verification, certification and code signing is an inexpensive method to prevent real, widespread voting fraud.

 

[saptech]

Florida GOP Takes Voter Suppression to a Brazen New Extreme | Ari Berman | Politics News | Rolling Stone

 

[copestag]

yes indeed....... its a whole lot to ask that we only allow American citizens to vote in the elections

 

[OutofDate1980]

Florida GOP Takes Voter Suppression to a Brazen New Extreme | Ari Berman | Politics News | Rolling Stone

Well the POS Rick Scott has a history of benefiting from fraud. He must have been schooled in the Koch way of doing business. Rob many banks, get caught on one, pay most of the money back for the one bank job, rinse, repeat.

Makes him a free market hero. Get rid of those voters that may question his ethics.

Gov. Rick Scott's Old Health Care Firm Faces Federal Probe For Unnecessary Heart Surgeries - Miami News - Riptide 2.0

"Scott has sold most of his shares in HCA -- which he founded in 1989 -- since becoming governor, but he was the CEO of the firm when it overbilled Medicare by more than a billion dollars, later incurring a $1.7 billion penalty from the feds for the fraud."

 

[Bob Maxey]

The current drive by the some politicians to disenfranchise voters by requiring government mandated voting ID, restricting early voting , absentee voting and registering to vote is a waste of money to solve a problem that doesn't exist. This drive has one goal only, to take away the right of voting by citizens.

If politicians were serious about preventing fraudulent elections then attack the real problem which is voting machines that can be tampered with to disenfranchise a large portion of the citizens to have their vote correctly tallied.

Requiring Open Source code and independent software verification, certification and code signing is an inexpensive method to prevent real, widespread voting fraud.

Voters should be required to show ID. for God's sake, we need this to prevent fraud. We need to know that people will vote only where they are supposed to vote; we also need to prevent the dead from voting.

I think people who want to vote should have a drivers license or a state ID. If they cannot prove who they are, they simply do not get to vote.

 

[OutofDate1980]

Voters should be required to show ID. for God's sake, we need this to prevent fraud. We need to know that people will vote only where they are supposed to vote; we also need to prevent the dead from voting.

I think people who want to vote should have a drivers license or a state ID. If they cannot prove who they are, they simply do not get to vote.

It's a matter of allocating resources.

Debbie Hines: New Republican Data Shows No Need For Voter ID Laws

"In the states with higher convictions of improper voting, most involved voters improperly filling out registration forms, vote buying or a person with a felony conviction attempting to vote. Vote buying occurs when a voter is paid or offered money for their vote. Neither of these issues would be prevented by state photo ID requirement. While the RNLA data shows 17 cases of non-citizen voting convictions over 10 years in Florida and one in both Alaska and Illinois, this hardly justifies the requirement of proof of citizenship requirement."

 

[Bob Maxey]

It's a matter of allocating resources.

Debbie Hines: New Republican Data Shows No Need For Voter ID Laws

"In the states with higher convictions of improper voting, most involved voters improperly filling out registration forms, vote buying or a person with a felony conviction attempting to vote. Vote buying occurs when a voter is paid or offered money for their vote. Neither of these issues would be prevented by state photo ID requirement. While the RNLA data shows 17 cases of non-citizen voting convictions over 10 years in Florida and one in both Alaska and Illinois, this hardly justifies the requirement of proof of citizenship requirement."

Crawford v. Marion County Election Board (2007)

 

[Jordan]

Voters should be required to show ID. for God's sake, we need this to prevent fraud. We need to know that people will vote only where they are supposed to vote; we also need to prevent the dead from voting.

I think people who want to vote should have a drivers license or a state ID. If they cannot prove who they are, they simply do not get to vote.

But all it proves when a voter shows an i.d. is that he or she can get an i.d., not that they're a citizen. There is a market for i.d.s out there.

 

[cjr72]

I'm of two minds about this. My 93 year old grandmother who lives in a state that passed a voter ID law doesn't have a valid driver's license anymore and is not very mobile. Getting an ID will be a burden but so will getting to the voting booth in the first place. Anyhow if this does lead to voter suppression it seems to me it will be wash as to what party it benefits. The old tend to vote Republican and poor minorities tend to vote Democrat. The proof is in the pudding as they say, we'll see the effect on turnout in November.

 

[OutofDate1980]

I'm of two minds about this. My 93 year old grandmother who lives in a state that passed a voter ID law doesn't have a valid driver's license anymore and is not very mobile. Getting an ID will be a burden but so will getting to the voting booth in the first place. Anyhow if this does lead to voter suppression it seems to me it will be wash as to what party it benefits. The old tend to vote Republican and poor minorities tend to vote Democrat. The proof is in the pudding as they say, we'll see the effect on turnout in November.

You maybe correct with voting preference, but your Grandmother or poor minorities shouldn't be prohibited from voting regardless if it's a wash.

I think why the Republicans are pushing voter suppression is there's evidence it's not a wash

 

[Bob Maxey]

You maybe correct with voting preference, but your Grandmother or poor minorities shouldn't be prohibited from voting regardless if it's a wash.

I think why the Republicans are pushing voter suppression is there's evidence it's not a wash

Perhaps those "poor minorities" should get some legal and proper ID? If not, they should forget about voting until they can prove they have a right to vote.

Sorry, but without the proper ID, nobody should be allowed to vote.

 

[OutofDate1980]

Crawford v. Marion County Election Board (2007)

The Court recognized that voter fraud had not occurred in Indiana, so the voter photo ID statute is

 

[OutofDate1980]

Perhaps those "poor minorities" should get some legal and proper ID? If not, they should forget about voting until they can prove they have a right to vote.

Sorry, but without the proper ID, nobody should be allowed to vote.

If you are a registered voter, you are asked to verify your address prior to voting.

We are spending resources on a nonexistent problem, but ignoring a vastly larger danger of voting machine tampering.

 

[cjr72]

You maybe correct with voting preference, but your Grandmother or poor minorities shouldn't be prohibited from voting regardless if it's a wash.

I think why the Republicans are pushing voter suppression is there's evidence it's not a wash

My Grandmother isn't prohibited. If she really wants to get an ID she can though it is more difficult for her due to her age, but that's life.

Anyhow I'm curious if anyone following this thread in other countries have to present a photo ID to vote and if so what do they think of it?

 

[Rachel A]

My Grandmother isn't prohibited. If she really wants to get an ID she can though it is more difficult for her due to her age, but that's life.

Anyhow I'm curious if anyone following this thread in other countries have to present a photo ID to vote and if so what do they think of it?

From http://citizensvoice.com/news/voter-id-law-a-fix-in-search-of-a-problem-1.1343383

'The law is politically motivated. Voter suppression (i.e., discouraging certain groups from voting) is apparently the law's real motivation. Republicans have frantically denied this, but their own House majority leader publicly acknowledged it last month. Showing perhaps more candor than canniness, Rep. Mike Turzai implied the law had the partisan goal of winning the presidential election for Mitt Romney. "Voter ID," proclaimed Turzai, "is going to allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania." Smoking guns don't get clearer than that.'

Sounds pretty damning to me.

The moment when just one single legal citizen is denied the right to vote in this country due to a failure in the system then that's when democracy dies.

 

[OutofDate1980]

... Rep. Mike Turzai implied the law had the partisan goal of winning the presidential election for Mitt Romney.

Implied ?

Turzai: Voter ID Will Allow Romney to Win Pa. - YouTube

 

[Bob Maxey]

I voted for Nucky Thompson. He promised to rename The White House, Tammany Hall f I gave enough cash under the table next time.

 

[OutofDate1980]

I voted for Nucky Thompson. He promised to rename The White House, Tammany Hall f I gave enough cash under the table next time.

Isn't America's laissez faire politicians great, the best money can buy or sometimes only rent.

 

[Bob Maxey]

So if I decide to vote in your state, what mechanism should be in place to prevent my vote? This is simple, really. We know fraud occurs. We might not see it in our state or your state, but if it occurs elsewhere, it can happen anywhere.

What about voter registration? Not sure how it works in every state, Should I be required to register; if so, do I just walk in, sign the papers or the book using a fake address?

If not, then some form of ID should be required.

 

[OutofDate1980]

... We know fraud occurs. ...

Any stats on that ? Is it more of a threat than voting machine fraud ?

Which should we expend limited resources to resolve ?

 

[Rachel A]

Any stats on that ? Is it more of a threat than voting machine fraud ?

Which should we expend limited resources to resolve ?

There is no such thing as collateral damage when it comes to denying citizens the vote. Granted we need to do everything we can to block voter fraud, but nothing that will block anyone from their legal right to vote.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Any stats on that ? Is it more of a threat than voting machine fraud ?

Which should we expend limited resources to resolve ?

What is the difference? Rigging machines to tilt the balance gives us the same result as outright fraud; it is the other side of the same coin. Fraud is fraud.

In Philadelphia, you will find examples of people voting twice, voters that do not exist casting ballots and the ever popular voting by non-citizens.

Thirty or more people in Virginia were charged with voter fraud and there have been convictions.

More than 15 other states have discovered voter fraud.

"At least 33,000 ACORN-submitted registrations in Milwaukee have been called into question after it was found that the organizations had been using felons as registration workers, in violation of state election rules. Two people involved in the ongoing Wisconsin voter fraud investigation have been charged with felonies."

"An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail."

"Nevada authorities indicted ACORN on 26 counts of voter registration fraud and 13 counts of illegally compensating canvassers. ACORN provided a bonus compensation program called

 

[Rachel A]

What is the difference? Rigging machines to tilt the balance gives us the same result as outright fraud; it is the other side of the same coin. Fraud is fraud.

In Philadelphia, you will find examples of people voting twice, voters that do not exist casting ballots and the ever popular voting by non-citizens.

Thirty or more people in Virginia were charged with voter fraud and there have been convictions.

More than 15 other states have discovered voter fraud.

"At least 33,000 ACORN-submitted registrations in Milwaukee have been called into question after it was found that the organizations had been using felons as registration workers, in violation of state election rules. Two people involved in the ongoing Wisconsin voter fraud investigation have been charged with felonies."

"An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail."

"Nevada authorities indicted ACORN on 26 counts of voter registration fraud and 13 counts of illegally compensating canvassers. ACORN provided a bonus compensation program called

 

[Bob Maxey]

What you are saying though is that in order to ensure we lock up the criminals we should arrest all the citizens. My old school teachers like to employ that logic as well. Punish them all to get the one.

What I am saying is there is voter fraud. Apparently, much of it has to do with Acorn. So we start by beating out confessions, getting employees to hang it on Acorn and then use the RICO Act to put them away for life.

Seriously, how can you say that I think we need to "arrest all the citizens?" Not all of them, just those that break the law.

I am saying we need to put those responsible in prison for a long time. Clean up the mess and institute mandatory voter ID laws.

Clearly, the honor system does not work.

 

[Rachel A]

What I am saying is there is voter fraud. Apparently, much of it has to do with Acorn. So we start by beating out confessions, getting employees to hang it on Acorn and then use the RICO Act to put them away for life.

Seriously, how can you say that I think we need to "arrest all the citizens?" Not all of them, just those that break the law.

I am saying we need to put those responsible in prison for a long time. Clean up the mess and institute mandatory voter ID laws.

Clearly, the honor system does not work.

The logic is to put blocks in place that then prevent legal citizens from voting. Whatever is put in place has to make sure it doesn't catch (in computer parlance) false positives. Much that has been suggested will cause that to happen.