Bill Nye and Evolution

[mriff]

Realizing that this could be a fairly touchy subject, what are your thoughts about this Bill Nye the Science Guy YouTube video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gHbYJfwFgOU

 

[OutofDate1980]

Realizing that this could be a fairly touchy subject, what are your thoughts about this Bill Nye the Science Guy YouTube video?

Bill Nye: Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children - YouTube

Fundamentalist cultures/religions are opposed to this science because it conflicts with the basis of their power and wealth.

Creation and evolution in public education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Globally, evolution is taught in science courses with limited controversy, with the exception of a few areas of the United States and several Islamic fundamentalist countries."

 

[A.Nonymous]

Has absolutely nothing at all to do with money and power. Most churches have neither. Heck, half of southern Baptist ministers are bi-vocational. I don't think that stat changes much across the rest of the denominations. Having worked with quite a few churches in my city I can tell you that most of them are not drowning in money or drunk with political power. They oppose evolution simply because it conflicts with their view of the universe. Nothing more sinister than that.

 

[PH8AL]

Does it need to be more sinister than that? Not trying to offend but as some one who believes in evolution because of scientific method I believe it is inherently harmful to propogate theories that are unsound in the face of scientific fact. We can argue many points about certain evolutionary theories but the jist of it is not only proven but used widely in medicinal procedures that save countless lives every year including the lives of those who would deny it.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Americans have some sort of deep distrust of science, which is fairly ironic, as its science that helped make (along with abundant natural resources and stable government) great. You know, nowhere else in the developed world is man-made global warming or evolution up for debate. Yet in in the US, just one Republican candidate (who had no chance), endorsed science on AGW, and most of the candidates want creationism to be taught to kids. I had a Catholic monk for a religion teacher, and he said that creationism was simply a way of explaining gods effect on the world to illiterate peasants, and that the world was billions of years old.
Dammit America.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Americans have some sort of deep distrust of science, which is fairly ironic, as its science that helped make (along with abundant natural resources and stable government) great. You know, nowhere else in the developed world is man-made global warming or evolution up for debate. Yet in in the US, just one Republican candidate (who had no chance), endorsed science on AGW, and most of the candidates want creationism to be taught to kids. I had a Catholic monk for a religion teacher, and he said that creationism was simply a way of explaining gods effect on the world to illiterate peasants, and that the world was billions of years old.
Dammit America.

We Americans have a deep distrust of EVERYTHING. It's not just science. It extends to the government (state, local and federal) and many private companies as well. We tend to trust companies more than we trust governments, but not a whole lot more.

 

[ElasticNinja]

We Americans have a deep distrust of EVERYTHING. It's not just science. It extends to the government (state, local and federal) and many private companies as well. We tend to trust companies more than we trust governments, but not a whole lot more.

Thats kinda tragic though, isnt it?

 

[A.Nonymous]

Thats kinda tragic though, isnt it?

Is it? We Americans are an independent sort. As such we tend to trust ourselves, our friends/family, people we know, etc.... We distrust those we don't know and who probably don't have our best interests at heart. I don't know that that's a bad thing. I can't imagine living in a country where everyone trusted the government to take care of them and do what's right. To me that is bizarre.

 

[PH8AL]

I can't imagine living in a country where everyone trusted the government to take care of them and do what's right. To me that is bizarre.

Very!

 

[Gmash]

We Americans have a deep distrust of EVERYTHING. It's not just science. It extends to the government (state, local and federal) and many private companies as well. We tend to trust companies more than we trust governments, but not a whole lot more.

I trust the government more than a corporation simply because the government is accountable to the voters. Corporations are accountable to no one except the almighty dollar.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I trust the government more than a corporation simply because the government is accountable to the voters. Corporations are accountable to no one except the almighty dollar.

I think you'd probably be in a minority, but I could be wrong.

Here's a perfect example. Let's say it comes out that Google is using your phone to track you everywhere you go so it has a history of where you have been and how long you have been there. How upset are you? Now, say it comes out that the feds are using your phone to track you the exact same way. Which of these privacy stories makes you more upset/concerned?

 

[Gmash]

I can vote out the government, I can't vote out Google.

 

[PH8AL]

No you can do something to google the Gov will jail you for. Not give them your money.
Both collapse with out funding.
Personally I do trust google more because of why they want this info. To sell me something. Why does the Gov want it? Google is a service the Gov is a buracracy put in place to rule us.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Is it? We Americans are an independent sort. As such we tend to trust ourselves, our friends/family, people we know, etc.... We distrust those we don't know and who probably don't have our best interests at heart. I don't know that that's a bad thing. I can't imagine living in a country where everyone trusted the government to take care of them and do what's right. To me that is bizarre.

Would it not be nice to be able to have some level of faith in something though?

Why does the Gov want it? Google is a service the Gov is a buracracy put in place to rule us.

The world would be a pretty shitty place with governments though, could live without Google at least.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I would be upset at both especially if there was no disclosure to me of what was going on. I would be less upset at Google for the reason's Ph8l listed. I know why Google is after this information. I have no idea why the feds would want it.

But let's look at something that neither should have access to. Let's say it was revealed that if you installed Google Toolbar it installed a tracker that Google used to track your financial information when you went to a bank, broker's web site, investment site, etc.... Now Google has business knowing how much money you've got in your bank account. None at all. But suppose it was revealed that the feds were doing the exact same thing and gathering the exact same information. Which privacy breach are you more upset about?

 

[A.Nonymous]

Would it not be nice to be able to have some level of faith in something though?

Sure, but wouldn't it be great if unicorns flew around and crapped rainbows too?

 

[PH8AL]

Elastic

Our society holds self reliance and contempt of rule as some of its highest virtues. A person who believes themself free will have a natural mistrust of anything that questions that freedom.
We celebrate criminals and we love violence we are only a few generations removed from ancestors who conquered a continent and then saved the world from Tyrany twice.

What you are saying is illogical to us on a base level.

To answer your question directly, No, I see that as dangerous on the scale of the Nazi party. 1984!

 

[ElasticNinja]

Elastic

Our society holds self reliance and contempt of rule as some of its highest virtues.

Is that a good thing though?

A person who believes themself free will have a natural mistrust of anything that questions that freedom

And do you truly believe you are freer than I?

We celebrate criminals and we love violence we are only a few generations removed from ancestors who conquered a continent and then saved the world from Tyrany twice.

Germany, the Ottomons, and Austria-Hungary may not have been entirely democratic, but they were far from tyrannical.
Regarding WWII, yes thanks very much.
They didnt have much to conquer from to be fair, I mean guns versus spears? And then said ancestors decided they didnt want to pay tax for protection and wanted to take over Indian land their King had promised they wouldnt.

To answer your question directly, No, I see that as dangerous on the scale of the Nazi party. 1984!

Its not 1984 when we have a free media and internet, and have the ability to reach any position in society. And it certainly isnt Nazi Germany. Maybe you dont know any people related to Holocaust victims.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Elastic

Our society holds self reliance and contempt of rule as some of its highest virtues. A person who believes themself free will have a natural mistrust of anything that questions that freedom.
We celebrate criminals and we love violence we are only a few generations removed from ancestors who conquered a continent and then saved the world from Tyrany twice.

What you are saying is illogical to us on a base level.

To answer your question directly, No, I see that as dangerous on the scale of the Nazi party. 1984!

I have to agree with Ph8l here. This basically sums up the American mindset. Yes, it's more complicated than this, but this is a basic summation of how Americans think of things.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Is that a good thing though?
And do you truly believe you are freer than I?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'd say yes and yes. Those are two of the things that make Americans great. We like to think that we can do anything no matter what the rules say. Many times we fail and fall on our faces, but we still think that.

And then said ancestors decided they didnt want to pay tax for protection and wanted to take over Indian land their King had promised they wouldnt.

No, said ancestors objected to a tyrannical king taxing us without giving us any say in the matter. We came to the point where we no longer needed a king or his "protection". Nor did we need any of the trappings that went with it.

 

[ElasticNinja]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'd say yes and yes. Those are two of the things that make Americans great. We like to think that we can do anything no matter what the rules say. Many times we fail and fall on our faces, but we still think that.

But this is a mindset, not actual freedom. I would agree that Europeans tend to look at things and go "Oh, thats too risky, that'll never take off", but Americans are no more free to try.

No, said ancestors objected to a tyrannical king taxing us without giving us any say in the matter. We came to the point where we no longer needed a king or his "protection". Nor did we need any of the trappings that went with it.

Tyrannical? I'm not sure American's understand the concept.
American's got upset that they had to help pay for a war waged for them, against New France. The British decided to expansion by the Americans, to reduce expenditure on defence, and this was not conductive to many individuals interests.

TL;DR, the story of one sided tyranny thats oft trumpeted is awful harsh.

 

[PH8AL]

But this is a mindset, not actual freedom. I would agree that Europeans tend to look at things and go "Oh, thats too risky, that'll never take off", but Americans are no more free to try.


Tyrannical? I'm not sure American's understand the concept.
American's got upset that they had to help pay for a war waged for them, against New France. The British decided to expansion by the Americans, to reduce expenditure on defence, and this was not conductive to many individuals interests.

TL;DR, the story of one sided tyranny thats oft trumpeted is awful harsh.

Freedom is a perception, its a construct of the mind that can be validated by reality but does not need to be so yes by the fact we believe we are freer we are.

There was a lot more to it than taxes. Taxation with out representation was key but hardly the whole of it.
The fact we were prohibited from manufacturing goods with our resources for 1. That was to protect British manufactures from much the same thing that has happened with China and American industry today.

The French and Indian war was not fought on behalf of our colonists nor for their benefit, it was a minor front in an Empirical war between 2 world powers in Europe. On top of that most who fought on the Brit side were colonists.

 

[RazorSharp]

I have to agree with Ph8l here. This basically sums up the American mindset.

Uh what? Please don't lump all Americans in together. What Ph8l suggested is most certainly not how I feel. I may mistrust certain elected politicians, to be sure, but the government as a whole I do not consider to be a hostile entity.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'd say yes and yes. Those are two of the things that make Americans great. We like to think that we can do anything no matter what the rules say.

Yikes.

A) That's what you think makes us "freer" than Europe?
B) Are you implying that Europeans do not have freedom of speech?

 

[A.Nonymous]

Uh what? Please don't lump all Americans in together. What Ph8l suggested is most certainly not how I feel. I may mistrust certain elected politicians, to be sure, but the government as a whole I do not consider to be a hostile entity.

I never said it was a hostile entity. I said Americans tend to mistrust the government in general. I think that much is true. I'm sure there are people out there who deeply trust all government the way they'd trust their grandmother. I think those people are a minority and crazy/naive to boot. I think it's accurate to say that the vast majority of Americans tend to trust corporations and distrust government.

Yikes.

A) That's what you think makes us "freer" than Europe?
B) Are you implying that Europeans do not have freedom of speech?

Yes. We have the freedom to fail. I'm no expert on Europe, but I see no many safety nets out there for people that no one ever truly fails or flops. Without failure you never learn. I have no stats to back this up, but I feel Americans take greater risks than Europeans.

 

[RazorSharp]

"afety nets out there for people that no one ever truly fails or flops".. yeah, that sounds just terrible. How dare they want to support their citizens.