No more unlimited from V?

[zuben el genub]

Verizon CFO buries his head in the sand, claims unlimited data is 'going by the wayside' -- Engadget

Especially with share everything?

Is this guy related to Randall Stephenson?

 

[Rxpert83]

Verizon has already gotten rid of unlimited. This is just talk trying to get more to convert from their unlimited plans to the share everything plans.

 

[AntimonyER]

Well I like the DL analysis of this. The CFO is talking like people don't mind the new plans, when really, they don't have a choice if they are new, and CSRs are pushing it HARD for existing customers (and most people don't have the full picture). I even had a cold call from VZW once about it.

Also its not that people don't care about unlimited, but VZW is forcing them to choose between paying $599+ for a new phone, or losing unlimited, and most people are choosing option B when they go to upgrade. So his statement that people don't care about unlimited is pretty much a slap in the face to his customers. No, they do care about unlimited, but they can't afford the $300-$400 extra you are chargning them now to keep it.

P.S. I moved this to the VZW forum. THanks for understanding.

 

[badrsj]

Its also warning to hold outs your days are numbered.

 

[euph_22]

Well I like the DL analysis of this. The CFO is talking like people don't mind the new plans, when really, they don't have a choice if they are new, and CSRs are pushing it HARD for existing customers (and most people don't have the full picture). I even had a cold call from VZW once about it.

Also its not that people don't care about unlimited, but VZW is forcing them to choose between paying $599+ for a new phone, or losing unlimited, and most people are choosing option B when they go to upgrade. So his statement that people don't care about unlimited is pretty much a slap in the face to his customers. No, they do care about unlimited, but they can't afford the $300-$400 extra you are chargning them now to keep it.

P.S. I moved this to the VZW forum. THanks for understanding.

Except many people save money with the new plans. And many people DON'T care a about unlimited data, and based on hire they use their devices they shouldn't. Just because it's not the case for us doesn't mean it isn't the case for a lot off other Verizon customers.

 

[euph_22]

Its also warning to hold outs your days are numbered.

No it isn't. Verizon has no reason to force people off unlimited. Verizon is trying to people to covert from unlimited to tiered data because they either get more profit out of that customer or by lowering the cost barrier, they make it more likely they will add additional phones to their account.

By killing of unlimited data, they aren't going to covert those people to more lucrative plans. They would lose then as customers. People who would otherwise have a very strong incentive to stay with Verizon and that they are already getting extra profit from because they are foregoing subsidized upgrades. The upshot is killing unlimited outright will hurt their bottom line, and will give then almost no benefit.

 

[dirkbonn]

No it isn't. Verizon has no reason to force people off unlimited. Verizon is trying to people to covert from unlimited to tiered data because they either get more profit out of that customer or by lowering the cost barrier, they make it more likely they will add additional phones to their account.

By killing of unlimited data, they aren't going to covert those people to more lucrative plans. They would lose then as customers. People who would otherwise have a very strong incentive to stay with Verizon and that they are already getting extra profit from because they are foregoing subsidized upgrades. The upshot is killing unlimited outright will hurt their bottom line, and will give then almost no benefit.

Many customers like myself can save a few dollars by switching to the new shared data plans. It isn't a lot but about $10. We have a family plan with 3 smartphones and a such it costs us $90 for data. (3x$30=$90) Since we're relative light users of data (about 2 to 2-1/2 GB per month between the 3 of us) I figure we can get by with a 4GB shared data plan for $70.

The customers that get hit hardest by the new shared data plans are the heavy data users. Which, according to info I've heard are maybe about 5% of Verizons smartphone users. So this seams to validate the CFOs statement that most customers don't mind the new shared data plans.

Unlimited data is going the way of the dinosaurs. It won't happen overnight but probably over a peoiod of many years, but it will happen. Many users will hang on for a long time, but through switching carriers, marriages, Verizon closing "loopholes", and other reasons, unlimited data plans will eventually be phased out. When it comes to data, Verizon is switching to a "Pay to Play" method of data plans. The more you use, the more you pay. Just like electricity, gasoline, and the food you eat.

I'll loose my unlimited data when the Razr Maxx HD is released and my wifes switches to the iPhone 5. :smokingsomb:

 

[AntimonyER]

There are two sides of this... if customers are moving faster than they expected, perhaps they will just forget about the few unlimiteds left, and let us live in peace... Or perhaps it will accelerate the end of unlimited altogether, and they will take the risk of losing a few customers sooner when they kill off the option altogether...

 

[euph_22]

There are two sides of this... if customers are moving faster than they expected, perhaps they will just forget about the few unlimiteds left, and let us live in peace... Or perhaps it will accelerate the end of unlimited altogether, and they will take the risk of losing a few customers sooner when they kill off the option altogether...

What reason would they have for killing unlimited data? How would driving those customers off their network make them any more money?

 

[AntimonyER]

Its a value proposition, I am almost positive they assign a value to the amount of data that gets used. Once the unlimited data users have dwindled to the high volume users only, under their metrics, it may no longer be value added to retain those customers. At that point, they kill it.

 

[Rxpert83]

It would make them more money by driving the unlimited people away who are costing them more

 

[euph_22]

That would make sense if a user that uses 5gb's cost Verizon more than a user that uses 2gb. But it doesn't.

In short it costs Verizon to build out the infrastructure to access the service, not for you to actually use it. If you are using way more data than typical during peak times they can limit the bandwidth available to other users. But as we all know, Verizon's response to that isn't "let's build up the network more" it's "meh".

Even if heavy data users did cost Verizon more money, they could simply throttle heavy data users at peak times or enough the terms of service for the heaviest data users.

 

[badrsj]

On other consideration is with higher speeds more multimedia the data usage will increase making unlimited more desirable for us and less for VZW.

 

[AntimonyER]

That would make sense if a user that uses 5gb's cost Verizon more than a user that uses 2gb. But it doesn't.

In short it costs Verizon to build out the infrastructure to access the service, not for you to actually use it. If you are using way more data than typical during peak times they can limit the bandwidth available to other users. But as we all know, Verizon's response to that isn't "let's build up the network more" it's "meh".

Even if heavy data users did cost Verizon more money, they could simply throttle heavy data users at peak times or enough the terms of service for the heaviest data users.

I agree that each incremental GB doesn't ACTUALLY cost VZW that much. But regardless they will almost certainly assign a cost, which includes the build out of the infrastructure, into each GB of data. When the unlimited users data costs go over the $30 per month they pay, according to the value VZW assigns (not what it actually costs), they will probably kill it off.

 

[bost]

"When it comes to data, Verizon is switching to a "Pay to Play" method of data plans. The more you use, the more you pay. Just like electricity, gasoline, and the food you eat."

Verizon's tiered plans have nothing in common with any of those things. The gas station doesn't charge you for 20 gallons of gas if you only used 10 gallons, and they don't stick you with an overage fee if you you happen to use 20.01 gallons.

That's why these new plans are such a scam. They force you to pay for data you didn't use, and then overcharge you if you happen to need a little extra.

 

[pool_shark]

The shared plan would actually save me money.
The only reason I haven't switched is because I don't trust them.
I can't help but think that if they're successful at getting everyone to switch, they will then raise the cost of shared data.

 

[Clementine_3]

They are going to raise the cost...don't forget that VoLTE is coming, that will ALL be data. So, you won't have voice minutes to pay for, they have to still get that money so up go the charges/tiers/buckets AGAIN. Oh, not this year but soon...

 

[vr4]

The customers that get hit hardest by the new shared data plans are the heavy data users. Which, according to info I've heard are maybe about 5% of Verizons smartphone users. So this seams to validate the CFOs statement that most customers don't mind the new shared data plans.


I'll loose my unlimited data when the Razr Maxx HD is released and my wifes switches to the iPhone 5. :smokingsomb:

it used to be 2% of users. now its 5%?
based on everyone i know with a smart phone id put it closer to 30%


i dont consider myself a heavy user. usually no more than 30-45 minutes of youtube a month. average 6-8 hours of pandora a month. upload 8-10 pics to facebook.

i use about 10gb a month. i know the numbers put me in the "heavy user" catagory but i dont know how im using that data

 

[dirkbonn]

"When it comes to data, Verizon is switching to a "Pay to Play" method of data plans. The more you use, the more you pay. Just like electricity, gasoline, and the food you eat."

Verizon's tiered plans have nothing in common with any of those things. The gas station doesn't charge you for 20 gallons of gas if you only used 10 gallons, and they don't stick you with an overage fee if you you happen to use 20.01 gallons.

That's why these new plans are such a scam. They force you to pay for data you didn't use, and then overcharge you if you happen to need a little extra.

I understand what you're saying bost. I understand your data is not metered like the electricity you buy, for example, But it's up to you to purchase the correct plan based on your data usage, so you don't purchase more data than you use. When I use the term "Pay to Play" I'm just saying that those of us that use more data will pay more than those of us that use less. With unlimited data for everyone (like it used to be) then the light data users were subsidizing the heavy data users.

Like I said before, my family is a light user of data and by going with the shared data plan, we can actually save about $10 per month. How do you figure that this is a scam? :smokingsomb:

 

[euph_22]

I agree that each incremental GB doesn't ACTUALLY cost VZW that much. But regardless they will almost certainly assign a cost, which includes the build out of the infrastructure, into each GB of data. When the unlimited users data costs go over the $30 per month they pay, according to the value VZW assigns (not what it actually costs), they will probably kill it off.

The more i think about this, the more wrong i think you are. First off any business analyst who decides to arbitrarily assign made up costs into an analysis would have been fired a long tube ago for gross incompetence. Second, even if they did decide there were intangible costs to individual unlimited data use that they randomly decided to assign a value to, why wouldn't they also assign a value to the very real and easily calculated cost to losing customers due to eliminating unlimited data? Even if the unlimited data was costing Verizon more than $30/month they are still making money from all the other service they sell to the unlimited customers.

If Verizon had any valid reason to cut off peoples unlimited data, I'm sure they would. But they just simply don't. You don't drive profitable customers away because other customers are more profitable.

 

[AntimonyER]

The more i think about this, the more wrong i think you are. First off any business analyst who decides to arbitrarily assign made up costs into an analysis would have been fired a long tube ago for gross incompetence. Second, even if they did decide there were intangible costs to individual unlimited data use that they randomly decided to assign a value to, why wouldn't they also assign a value to the very real and easily calculated cost to losing customers due to eliminating unlimited data? Even if the unlimited data was costing Verizon more than $30/month they are still making money from all the other service they sell to the unlimited customers.

If Verizon had any valid reason to cut off peoples unlimited data, I'm sure they would. But they just simply don't. You don't drive profitable customers away because other customers are more profitable.

They aren't made up costs, they are called burdened rate, and includes all overhead into the rate. If it seemed like I was saying they made up a cost, I apologize. It is a cost based in reality. And I may have been focusing on the data side, but yes, it would be an overall thing, not just data. But if there comes a time, when the average burdened rate of a group of customers exceeds the income from them as a whole, it makes perfect sense to cut them off. It may even happen before then, if they predict a certain percentage will stay after losing unlimited with the higher margin plans, and the profit from the smaller percentage who stay exceeds that of the whole group of unlimited customers. (For example, Verizon is the only network who has full coverage from work to home for me, and all my family is with them, so I'm stuck, and will just have to shell out for the data).

 

[euph_22]

They aren't made up costs, they are called burdened rate, and includes all overhead into the rate. If it seemed like I was saying they made up a cost, I apologize. It is a cost based in reality. And I may have been focusing on the data side, but yes, it would be an overall thing, not just data. But if there comes a time, when the average burdened rate of a group of customers exceeds the income from them as a whole, it makes perfect sense to cut them off. It may even happen before then, if they predict a certain percentage will stay after losing unlimited with the higher margin plans, and the profit from the smaller percentage who stay exceeds that of the whole group of unlimited customers. (For example, Verizon is the only network who has full coverage from work to home for me, and all my family is with them, so I'm stuck, and will just have to shell out for the data).

Those costs are all fixed with respect to the individuals data use. Why would anybody assign them a variable cost with respect to usage?

 

[Rxpert83]

Because more overall usage means more strain on the network and upgrades to maintain current network levels

 

[euph_22]

Because more overall usage means more strain on the network and upgrades to maintain current network levels

That would assume Verizon spent money to relieve network pressure. Besides, network load is probably modeled just as well in a per user (in the area) basis. That is certainly the case if you are talking about the typical costs associated the typical unlimited user. When you are talking about users using way above average, the effect they have would totally depend on the utilization of the network in the area. If it is well below capacity, the extra usage doesn't matter. If it near capacity, they would probably be upgrading the network anyways.

 

[Nodzarf]

Before texting, overage on phone call minutes would add quite a bit to your monthly bill. After texting came into play, phone minutes came down but overage on your text messages added to your monthly bill. Now these share data plans will follow the same pattern. Keep unlimited.