free health care

[sntaylor]

I'm just curious as to what the issue appears to be with the thought of free health care, it is something that I am very proud that we have over here in the UK.

Now I know it's not strictly free as it's our taxes that pay for it, but personally I prefer this notion, the idea that if I'm sick be it a serious bug, injured playing sport or even walking the street and falling, I know that I can arrive at a hospital a&e and will be treated, with no worries of filling out insurance claim forms or if I can afford it or not.....this goes for anyone on this island if you arrive legally or not!

I realise that yet again things are different in the states, but I know that Obama has a policy that is trying to deliver more affordable health care and that this has its many critics, from a British point of view I don't understand where the problems lie, is it the way he is going about it, or is it the notion of giving away medical care free to those who may not have paid any taxes etc?

Don't get me wrong, our system has many issues, but the core principle of being treated stays the same! We also have private hospitals available and many people use these through company benefits etc, but the nhs is still available to all.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I'm just curious as to what the issue appears to be with the thought of free health care, it is something that I am very proud that we have over here in the UK.

Now I know it's not strictly free as it's our taxes that pay for it, but personally I prefer this notion, the idea that if I'm sick be it a serious bug, injured playing sport or even walking the street and falling, I know that I can arrive at a hospital a&e and will be treated, with no worries of filling out insurance claim forms or if I can afford it or not.....this goes for anyone on this island if you arrive legally or not!

I realise that yet again things are different in the states, but I know that Obama has a policy that is trying to deliver more affordable health care and that this has its many critics, from a British point of view I don't understand where the problems lie, is it the way he is going about it, or is it the notion of giving away medical care free to those who may not have paid any taxes etc?

Don't get me wrong, our system has many issues, but the core principle of being treated stays the same! We also have private hospitals available and many people use these through company benefits etc, but the nhs is still available to all.

Well, you might want to gag down the full 2300 (give or take) pages of text that make up the HC bill that very few, if any, read before they signed it into law. Not even Obama knows what is in the bill.

You might be alarmed to learn what the HC will cost us. What some will pay in fines and how UHC (of sorts) will impact your ability (if you were a citizen of this country) to get timely care. There is many scary things in the HC bill.

One provision calls for the elimination of private HC insurance if you change your coverage, even for the better. Corporate HC might go away because it is a cost they no longer have to pay or offer.

I am glad you recognize that your HC is not free. Too many in this country think their HC magically materializes out of thin air and many in your country are quick to say their HC is free. It is and never has been free.

I can hardly wait until it is fully implemented and people start getting those hefty bills for their free HC. The IRS has hired thousands of new collection types just to collect from us.

Obamacare will actually cover fewer people and some things will be decided by people in Washington that directly affect people. A sad choice of words, but the so-called "death panels" are aptly named for the most part.

Once you authorize social services to help you, they will come into your home and once there, getting rid of them is almost impossible. You will be targeted for these visits if you are a mother younger than 21, a family with a tobacco user, a home where they know you keep guns and other things. All at a cost of over 1.2 Trillion dollars over the first 10 years.

 

[sntaylor]

So it is this particular bill, not the notion of a"free "health service.... it's just reading various posts and admittedly not knowing everything about the topic, it seems strange for me that in one thread you have many people arguing that it is their right to own a gun, yet having health care is not a right it would seem.

To me gun ownership should be, and with the fact criminals and mental health patients are not legally allowed them, is a privilege, while universal health care should be the right people are fighting for!

 

[JimmyRayBob]

I just don't understand how we can take hospitals that cost too much, doctors that cost to much and medicine that costs too much, and ADD a huge layer of government bureaucracy and call it AFFORDABLE.

 

[sntaylor]

The point being that it is universal health care, not just the people who can afford it get the treatment.

Got example, my fiancee was pregnant, . And 4 weeks ago today, her waters broke, this resulted in an overnight stay and then being booked into the hospital on the Monday for a section, quick search for the 4 night stay after the section(our baby was breach)How much will it cost for C-section in your state (in USA)? - Yahoo! Answers suggests a bill for $15000 plus, $350 of which she had to pay herself.

For us, we didn't have to pay a penny. I actually stayed 3 nights with her, and although I wasn't given food, it didn't cost anything for me to stay! This to me is a major difference, health care shouldn't be about making people on the board a profit through savings on the price of one drug over another, it should be about helping people, any and everyone!

 

[A.Nonymous]

So it is this particular bill, not the notion of a"free "health service.... it's just reading various posts and admittedly not knowing everything about the topic, it seems strange for me that in one thread you have many people arguing that it is their right to own a gun, yet having health care is not a right it would seem.

To me gun ownership should be, and with the fact criminals and mental health patients are not legally allowed them, is a privilege, while universal health care should be the right people are fighting for!

If you want a gun you pay for it. Why not the same for healthcare?

 

[sntaylor]

If you want a gun you pay for it. Why not the same for healthcare?

So you have a low paying job, or lose it, can't afford insurance, trip up over a kerb and seriously injure yourself, lengthy time in hospital, massive bills.... even if you have insurance the excess(deductible) is so high you can't afford it anyway, come out hospital with a crippling debt to repay, which I imagine affects credit ratings, when you do get a new job, or if you already had one but were on the bread line already.....

Vs

Same scenario, you get treatment come out carry on with your life!

Don't get me wrong, our taxes are higher, petrol prices for a start are way higher(that at least encourages us to get better mpg in our cars) we essentially have a prepaid system, but everyone is covered..... if anyone on this forum came over, they would receive the same treatment as me, with NO added costs!

 

[A.Nonymous]

So you have a low paying job, or lose it, can't afford insurance, trip up over a kerb and seriously injure yourself, lengthy time in hospital, massive bills.... even if you have insurance the excess(deductible) is so high you can't afford it anyway, come out hospital with a crippling debt to repay, which I imagine affects credit ratings, when you do get a new job, or if you already had one but were on the bread line already.....

Vs

Same scenario, you get treatment come out carry on with your life!

Don't get me wrong, our taxes are higher, petrol prices for a start are way higher(that at least encourages us to get better mpg in our cars) we essentially have a prepaid system, but everyone is covered..... if anyone on this forum came over, they would receive the same treatment as me, with NO added costs!

Hospitals here are not allowed to deny life saving Care based on ability to pay.

 

[lightsleeper23]

Hospitals here are not allowed to deny life saving Care based on ability to pay.

They barely bandage you up, set your bone and cast it, whatever, and send you on your way with no after care, no medication. And you still get an enormous bill that gets sent to collections if you don't pay it.

Also, if you have a terminal disease, you don't get ongoing treatment, you die. In fact, even if you have insurance and get a terminal disease, your insurance company has a whole department looking into ways to deny your claim so that you die, and they save a buck for their shareholders. Or rather a whole lot of bucks.

 

[Gmash]

I'm just curious as to what the issue appears to be with the thought of free health care, it is something that I am very proud that we have over here in the UK.

Now I know it's not strictly free as it's our taxes that pay for it, but personally I prefer this notion, the idea that if I'm sick be it a serious bug, injured playing sport or even walking the street and falling, I know that I can arrive at a hospital a&e and will be treated, with no worries of filling out insurance claim forms or if I can afford it or not.....this goes for anyone on this island if you arrive legally or not!

I realise that yet again things are different in the states, but I know that Obama has a policy that is trying to deliver more affordable health care and that this has its many critics, from a British point of view I don't understand where the problems lie, is it the way he is going about it, or is it the notion of giving away medical care free to those who may not have paid any taxes etc?

Don't get me wrong, our system has many issues, but the core principle of being treated stays the same! We also have private hospitals available and many people use these through company benefits etc, but the nhs is still available to all.

I wish we had a single payer system like you have. "Obamacare" is a step to get more people covered, but it's all he could (barely) get passed. I see why the rest of the world can't understand this. It's idiotic. One problem is the insurance industry has bought their way into the graces of too many legislators. Follow the money. The other factor is the attitude of the right wing. It's "I have insurance. If you don't, you must be a lazy freeloader who doesn't deserve healthcare." The whole idea of employer provided healthcare is stupid. You can do everything right your whole life, lose your job, (and insurance by extension) then get sick, lose your home and everything you've worked your whole life for, through no fault of your own. That's too many eggs in one basket.

 

[sntaylor]

Glad its not just me, as I do find this very strange but that's because I've grown up with the Nhs, and I've got to say although I know of people who have had issues, personally I've always had first class experience, certainly nothing to really complain about!

It really strikes me as strange that in particular the right wing Americans fight to own a gun stating its their right, but not to have a decent universal health care system!

 

[saptech]

One problem with the current HC system before Obamacare, hopsitals have to treat you the majority of the time but it's the after care where the problems come in. If you don't have insurance, you can't see a specialist or primary care doctor. If you need special medicine, such as for cancer, etc, that may be a problem without insurance.

 

[Familyguy1]

There is a very interesting report in the newest TIME magazine about health care and the enormous cost. I have not read it yet, but it sounds really good.

 

[sntaylor]

One problem with the current HC system before Obamacare, hopsitals have to treat you the majority of the time but it's the after care where the problems come in. If you don't have insurance, you can't see a specialist or primary care doctor. If you need special medicine, such as for cancer, etc, that may be a problem without insurance.

We do have the problem where some treatments and to an extent some medications are not available on the Nhs, these are only in extreme circumstances, for the majority of people, we get all after care provided.

Also in the last few years, in Scotland, we have been given free prescriptions so that asthmatics or anyone just needing a course of antibiotics, get then free! This is not the case south of the border in England!

 

[Speed Daemon]

One problem with the current HC system before Obamacare, hopsitals have to treat you the majority of the time but it's the after care where the problems come in. If you don't have insurance, you can't see a specialist or primary care doctor. If you need special medicine, such as for cancer, etc, that may be a problem without insurance.

FYI after I lost my health insurance (and couldn't buy a policy at any price), I've had no less than three primary care physicians, and at least one specialist for every chronic condition that I have.

My doctors are very conscientious about finding me money-saving alternatives because I can't get insurance. When I had to go through costly ($3500/mo. for up to a year) treatments for chronic Hepatitis C, the clinic where my doctors practice arranged for me to get these costly drugs for free under what they call a "compassionate care" program. I'm currently getting other medications for free under the same program.

The only reason why they found that I had Hepatitis C (most people find out too late) was because they admitted me to the hospital for three days after I presented in the emergency room with a complaint that my PPO doctors just ignored. They kept me there as long as it took to run every test they could think of!

Before Obamacare the only other time I was hospitalized, I briefly had a roommate, a 14-year-old boy with blood poisoning. I looked on in horror as the nurses in this Catholic hospital bullied and threatened this poor child, who was not insured. They demanded cash payments "by the end of the day" and if they didn't get their money they threatened to toss him out. And that's precisely what they did!

Even though I had top-notch health insurance at the time, a day after my surgery I found myself also out on the street, in a non-walking cast and no money in my pocket to get home on!

At another hospital, after a late night ER visit, I got a collection notice only 8 hours after I walked out of the place...despite the fact that I was 100% insured! When I went to work for the very same hospital years later, I got the rare opportunity to confront my tormentors. Believe me, I used that opportunity!

The health care industry has gotten worse (mainly due to greed) over the years, but that's all coming from within. Obamacare has improved this bad deal somewhat, but can't work miracles.

 

[chrlswltrs]

There are so many flaws with Obamacare it is insane. Here are just a few (and as a parent with a sick child I have HEAVILY researched this law):

1. My personal problem with it. Under Obamacare the insurance we currently have can no longer cover my daughter's medication as it is defined as a "specialty medication". This is an effort to keep cost down according to the bill. What it really means is to keep my daughter from being in incredible pain and dying an early death it will cost us almost $5,000 a month for her medication. This is medication we can currently afford with our insurance, but after 2014 when the bill goes into effect how are we supposed to afford that????????

2. Employers are cutting people's hours and not hiring because they can't afford all the fees associated with full time employees under this bill.
3. Health insurance premiums are going up, making insurance even less affordable. If you can't afford it now, you definitely won't be able to afford it anytime soon which means you will be fined a rather large fine for not having it.
4. It severely limits care for the elderly after age 75
5. Thousand more IRS agents have to be hired for all the new regulation needed, this is even more costs adding to our already skyrocketing deficits.

 

[Mayhem]

All I know is that once Obamacare started and 1/1/2013 came around, I lost a bunch of my benefits. My employer moved from a copay-only plan to a HSA.

I have sleep apnea and take Modafinil to stay awake. Cost of medicine pre-Obamacare? $50 for 90 days. Cost after? $3500 for 90 days. No, I'm not kidding. Once I run out of it, that's it. I can't afford to pay 3.5x the cost of my first car for a 90 day supply of medication.

I had back surgery two years ago that cost me nothing. The same procedure now would easily be $20K.

Doctor's visits were $25 a pop. Now I pay six times that amount. Add to that the fact that I have a wife and three kids and the amount of out-of-pocket we're having to pay is obscene.

Yes, it was my employer that switched plans. But all they're doing is passing the buck onto us.

I'm all for people getting healthcare, just don't force those of us who have jobs to pay for everyone who doesn't.

 

[Speed Daemon]

I wish we had a single payer system like you have. "Obamacare" is a step to get more people covered, but it's all he could (barely) get passed. I see why the rest of the world can't understand this. It's idiotic. One problem is the insurance industry has bought their way into the graces of too many legislators. Follow the money. The other factor is the attitude of the right wing. It's "I have insurance. If you don't, you must be a lazy freeloader who doesn't deserve healthcare." The whole idea of employer provided healthcare is stupid. You can do everything right your whole life, lose your job, (and insurance by extension) then get sick, lose your home and everything you've worked your whole life for, through no fault of your own. That's too many eggs in one basket.

:congrats: Well said!

After I being uninsured for so long (note that I lost my insurance before my health started failing; the company was just playing the odds, and won...and I lost big) I've given serious thought to trying to emigrate from the US to the UK or some other society with more humane health care treatment. If I stay here and the situation doesn't improve more, I'll be old and penniless, which is a position that I do not want to be in! No doubt there are laws to keep "moochers" out of your country, but I have to do something!

Here in the US I am considered a bum by most of the population here. Americans have become very unkind people.

 

[Speed Daemon]

There are so many flaws with Obamacare it is insane. Here are just a few(and as a parent with a sick child I have HEAVILY researched this law)

Those are GOP talking points.

 

[Speed Daemon]

All I know is that once Obamacare started and 1/1/2013 came around, I lost a bunch of my benefits. My employer moved from a copay-only plan to a HSA.

You should be mas a hell at your employer and the other big businesses who are shamelessly playing politics with their employees' benefits) for hurting its employees to demonstrate their wealthy owners' displeasure about having our first black president! It is, after all your employer who did it to you, not the President.

 

[chrlswltrs]

There are so many flaws with Obamacare it is insane. Here are just a few (and as a parent with a sick child I have HEAVILY researched this law):

1. My personal problem with it. Under Obamacare the insurance we currently have can no longer cover my daughter's medication as it is defined as a "specialty medication". This is an effort to keep cost down according to the bill. What it really means is to keep my daughter from being in incredible pain and dying an early death it will cost us almost $5,000 a month for her medication. This is medication we can currently afford with our insurance, but after 2014 when the bill goes into effect how are we supposed to afford that????????

2. Employers are cutting people's hours and not hiring because they can't afford all the fees associated with full time employees under this bill.
3. Health insurance premiums are going up, making insurance even less affordable. If you can't afford it now, you definitely won't be able to afford it anytime soon which means you will be fined a rather large fine for not having it.
4. It severely limits care for the elderly after age 75
5. Thousand more IRS agents have to be hired for all the new regulation needed, this is even more costs adding to our already skyrocketing deficits.

Those are GOP talking points.

How are FACTS GOP talking points? Especially #1 on my list?????

 

[Speed Daemon]

How are FACTS GOP talking points? Especially #1 on my list?????

The fact is that you had five points. That one out of five points is your story and I have no way of knowing if it's true or not. I know the other four aren't so the odds are against it. :dontknow:

Have you tried applying with the drug manufacturer to get the drug for free, or at a discount? You do know that it's the drug companies, not the President who set their prices so high, right?

 

[copestag]

:congrats: Well said!

After I being uninsured for so long (note that I lost my insurance before my health started failing; the company was just playing the odds, and won...and I lost big) I've given serious thought to trying to emigrate from the US to the UK or some other society with more humane health care treatment. If I stay here and the situation doesn't improve more, I'll be old and penniless, which is a position that I do not want to be in! No doubt there are laws to keep "moochers" out of your country, but I have to do something!

Here in the US I am considered a bum by most of the population here. Americans have become very unkind people.

so you were healthy and didnt feel the need to get insurance or a new job with insurance..... then became sick and its your old companies fault? and our responsibility to pay for you?

sounds more like you played the odds, and lost.... now you want a refund

 

[A.Nonymous]

You should be mas a hell at your employer and the other big businesses who are shamelessly playing politics with their employees' benefits) for hurting its employees to demonstrate their wealthy owners' displeasure about having our first black president! It is, after all your employer who did it to you, not the President.

My employer is moving toward an HSA as well. Not because it's better for them but because, in a company that employs over 10,000 people, the employees are strongly preferring it over the other plans offered. It's what the employees want. Why should they not move in that direction?

 

[ElasticNinja]

If people would so some research they would find that systems of universal or public healthcare end up much cheaper, and usually deliver better results.

The idea of Chris needing insurance from his employer to pay for his quite ill child's treatment is mad. If he was in Portugal or Slovenia or Japan he wouldn't be paying a tenth as much.