Help Camera (and motion video) talk - the Ultrapixel and more (tips/discussion)

[novox77]

Interesting comparison video. First time I've seen someone not care for the pics from the Lumina. Not surprising the guy preferred the iPhone pics, as I believe one the Verge reviews I read seemed like it should be coming from iVerge. I really thought the line "it looks like a cell phone camera picture..." was brilliant .... I mean, really. I want a better camera than my 3VO, but am under no illusion that a phone can take the place of a point and click... Seems like I'm going to be happy with it.

But I do have to say that my experience with HTC cameras was spot on with what that Verge guy was saying. He incorrectly uses the term "washed out" when describing the white hazy look that HTC cameras often produce. Basically it's an artifact of glare. Anyone who's ever used a coated vs non-coated filter in front of an SLR lens will recognize this. Kinda wish more manufacturers would start using coated glass. It will make a big difference. But coated glass does cost more... about 2x than non-coated.

You can somewhat correct this with pre-processing by bumping up the contrast (or some combo of contrast and exposure adjustment), but often these adjustments will wreck photos taken under darker light conditions, so you're constantly adjusting the settings.

My wife has an iPhone 4s, and it does take very good photos. Under low light however, it also take bad photos quite often. But you know, all bets are off in low-light conditions, even with my Canon 5D, unless you have super steady hands or a tripod. But even this won't help if your subject is moving.

I do agree that the person taking the shots is much more important than the camera. Based on this review, I don't think any of the cameras are that much more outstanding than the next. They are all pretty darn good for what they are. The difference will be how you frame your shot and how you utilize the available light you have.

BTW, the correct definition of "washed out" is when the photo is overexposed to the point that the details in the bright areas are lost and become pure white. Sometimes this is desired if it's detail in the shadows you are after. If a photo appears brighter than it should but doesn't experience the clipping in the brights, it's just "overexposed."

 

[CafeKampuchia]

It looks like HTC's ultrapixel gamble did not pay off in the end. The S4 beats it even in low light, kills it in good lighting.

Samsung Galaxy S4 vs. HTC One: Army of two - GSMArena.com

And kudos to gsmarena for ignoring the marketing hype and calling a megapixel a megapixel.

 

[BillyODU]

It looks like HTC's ultrapixel gamble did not pay off in the end. The S4 beats it even in low light, kills it in good lighting.

Samsung Galaxy S4 vs. HTC One: Army of two - GSMArena.com

And kudos to gsmarena for ignoring the marketing hype and calling a megapixel a megapixel.

Cool article, but its just one article. I'm not about to claim a camera "killing" another one with just one review. I'm not a "phone photographer" my any means, so a camera on a phone means squat to me personally, though i use my EVO camera, if the photo is not blurry upon a 1 second observation by myself, then its an awesome picture

I am finally happy to see, however, a review comparing the two phones side by side.. and this one is 11 pages long.. awesome find.

 

[CafeKampuchia]

"Kills it" is more my assessment after seeing the pictures myself and utter lack of detail evident in what the One captured.

 

[toolwarrior]

Unfortunately, I have to agree. While this is just one article, we can't ignore that it is a well done article that is in depth and thorough. The article did seem a little bias to me (in favor of the GS4), but that is just my opinion based on the tone of the article. The jury is still out on my quest for the next best smartphone. But this article does cause me to waver a bit now. I was solid on the ONE.

 

[Hadron]

Mobile-review have their (Russian) S4 camera review up, which includes camera comparisons with the One and other handsets. http://mobile-review.com/review/samsung-galaxy-s4-camera.shtml

There have been reports of a One camera update in the last few days, but I assume none of these reviews includes that.

 

[Hadron]

The field of view difference between the One and the S4 is quite striking.

 

[Jerryada]

Theres been a few more comparisons in the past few days
Not a lot of science here, but I always enjoy looking through these no matter what. I tend to ignore the commentary and try let the photos do the talking

UltraPixel vs PureView: HTC One & Nokia Lumia 920 Camera Shoot-Out | Pocketnow

The color of the HTC One seems to be deep.And some photos of Lumia 920 seems more comfortable to common people, just like me.

 

[Hadron]

The trick with colour comparisons is knowing what the original scene actually looked like, so that you can tell which is more accurate. With the samples shown it looks like the 920 has corrected more for the white balance on the indoor shots, I think is probably too warm in some of the others, but without being there I cannot be certain which is more accurate.

Of course colours are also a matter of taste. Many people prefer slightly warm and over-saturated, and manufacturers are going to be aware of this.

Edit: came across another comparison here, this time from PhoneArena: http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/Samsung-Galaxy-S4-vs-HTC-One_id3282. The camera comparison is on page 3. The shots are all outdoor, so don't really tell us much about low light.

 

[cozins17]

Wow, review really condemns htc one! Hoping mine turns up today, will be interesting to see what pictures are like! !

Anyone with the One already comment on the review & pictures?? Are they that bad?

 

[TheSuper]

HTC have released a software update to improve camera performance. HTC say though that final retail units will ship with this new update in April.

HTC One software update improves camera performance - GSMArena.com news

 

[EarlyMon]

HTC have released a software update to improve camera performance. HTC say though that final retail units will ship with this new update in April.

HTC One software update improves camera performance - GSMArena.com news

This reinforces what I said earlier in this thread before any reviews hit - expect the One software to lose detail due to their compression software, expect a root solution to fix that just like happened on the One X.

HTC addressing this so people don't have to root to solve that is just icing on the cake for rooters and salvation for non-rooters.

I'd also point out that none of that addressed video, another area benefiting from a selection of bit rates (just as a choice for level of compression is best).

 

[CafeKampuchia]

This reinforces what I said earlier in this thread before any reviews hit - expect the One software to lose detail due to their compression software, expect a root solution to fix that just like happened on the One X.

But that will not change the fact that it's 4mp camera isn't capturing as much detail as an 8 or 13mp camera.

BTW, here's a good article on getting the most out of the One's hardware:

HTC One camera tips: How to take better pictures | Android Central

 

[EarlyMon]

But that will not change the fact that it's 4mp camera isn't capturing as much detail as an 8 or 13mp camera.

BTW, here's a good article on getting the most out of the One's hardware:

HTC One camera tips: How to take better pictures | Android Central

When perceiving details, the eye goes to color saturation and contrast first, dpi resolution last.

Inescapable eye-brain physics and why I'd stack a good 3.2 MP point and shoot (larger sensor) against any of the phone wunderkind cameras and win for overall quality.

The megapixel myth is just that.

If you capture more pixels and think that is the critical factor in final perceived detail, it's like saying that a Rubik's cube is solved because you have just one side all the same color.

I still maintain that unless HTC gets it right, rooting and getting rid of the compression is needed to get the most out of an HTC camera.

 

[CafeKampuchia]

That's all fine and good until you decide to crop a picture. Then megapixels suddenly start mattering. Besides, I don't think it's really been proven that HTC's UltraPixel strategy is really producing better results, at least not consistently.

 

[EarlyMon]

That's all fine and good until you decide to crop a picture. Then megapixels suddenly start mattering. Besides, I don't think it's really been proven that HTC's UltraPixel strategy is really producing better results, at least not consistently.

Ok.

If it fails, I've always got my old 3.2 MP Olympus. :smokingsomb:

 

[toad6386]

By my not being much of a shutterbug, the Zoe thing has about got me hooked , and know the MP myth is just that. But I understand and can see where Cafe and Novox are coming from, too.
*Putting on my Amazing Carnac turban* I predict that before too long, will start hearing more from the physical film crowd about the lack of 'nuance' in any digital pic, much like you have the vinyl record folks now.
When ANYTHING gets processed, it cannot, by definition, remain in its true unadulterated, original form, and a certain amount of give and take is required. I don't care how many or of what flavor mega-pixels there are, there's going to someone that says "it just doesn't look 'right.'" Hence why some like the hues of the superamoled over SLCD3, etc.
The pics I take are my memories, and regardless of how I take them, or with what, are usually clearer than the ones in my head, so just about ANY camera would work for me But again, I also understand the points of the true photogs, and value their opinions. Thanks!

 

[EarlyMon]

The best camera is the one you're carrying when you need to take a picture.

 

[sikclown]

The best camera is the one you're carrying when you need to take a picture.

Agreed. I use my phone for those times when I don't want to carry a dedicated camera but for important occasions nothing can compare to a dedicated Camera. Living in New Orleans there are a lot of tests, parades, bar nights/days, etc where carrying a camera just isn't convenient and those shots just end up on Facebook or Instagram so most phone cameras are more than enough to handle the task; Not to mention generally the photographer has had a libation or two so they aren't the greatest shots anyway. I am most interested in the One's low light shots as the bulk of mine tend to be in these situations.

 

[Tommydaniel]

This reinforces what I said earlier in this thread before any reviews hit - expect the One software to lose detail due to their compression software, expect a root solution to fix that just like happened on the One X.

HTC addressing this so people don't have to root to solve that is just icing on the cake for rooters and salvation for non-rooters.

I'd also point out that none of that addressed video, another area benefiting from a selection of bit rates (just as a choice for level of compression is best).

That's an update that's already came and passed. Phandroid updated their post about it. There is no incoming update.

 

[EarlyMon]

That's an update that's already came and passed. Phandroid updated their post about it. There is no incoming update.

Yep, I was commenting in reference to that - my point was - none of the blogs that have done their shoot-outs are going to go back and take that into account.

At least one has a detailed review of the One with pre-release software and the reviewer came right out and erroneously said, don't expect anything to change. While his same org, another reviewer, did a comparison and came to all sorts of conclusions, without stating what he had at all.

My point isn't "boo hoo, HTC lost" - my point is that people are going to be trusting untrustworthy review results as consumers.

What does it mean - "update?" It means that the maker has their opinion of what the new revision, but we may have ours.

Regardless of brand, I have no trust in these early reviews. I can point GNex and various Samsung threads for phone releases where users found better results after updates from initial release, and I know that's been my consistent experience with HTC.

They don't wait until the platforms are stable to review. We don't pay them. They live on clicky advertising. They'll crank out anything, most of it ridiculous imo, and call it a "test" - because, hey - blog writer=qualified tester.

That's my beef.

By design, the One has a larger sensor with larger pixels than others. It will gather more light with less noise at the hardware level at the expense of actual dots, and with an F/2.0 aperature, it will have less depth of field than other cameras - those are the hardware tradeoffs and facts.

I don't see fair reviews trying various custom exposure settings. If you're outside, take a picture, and it's crappy, thanks to the magic of immediate feedback with a digital camera, there are 343 exposure adjustments on top of various additional adjustments for ISO and white balance.

The adjustments possible with any modern Android will number over a thousand for many of the pictures used in the so-called tests.

Which - are all done by taking default snaps and going,

Oh wow, lookie my review, this side by side proves that I can take default pictures and put them up side by side on a web page. Where, thanks to digital sampling, may not show on my web what was on my camera, and thanks to your monitor and web browser, may not show proper mapping if they did match. Isn't that great?!? Let's all swoon over my in-depth conclusions, I are an Expret!

The reviews tell of possibilities, and now we're past that into the exciting horse-race era - which - disgusts me to no end, because now as far as I'm concerned, we might as well be asking Elvis' ghost which is better.

Just spent an hour comparing photos with a pal with an SGS3 vs my LTEvo. We had a blast, and found a lot to like - and criticism in agreement - about each other's setups.

I expect that the One and SGS4 this year is better than last year's models because - it's this year. And there will be differences.

I've lived in film too long, I guess. :rofl:

 

[TheSuper]

Based on that iFixit guide the HTC One main camera sensor has optical image stabilisation (gyroscope). Is that new to HTC phones?

 

[EarlyMon]

Based on that iFixit guide the HTC One main camera sensor has optical image stabilisation (gyroscope). Is that new to HTC phones?

Yep.

 

[TheSuper]

The HTC One was given to a couple of people and this is what was achieved. Quite impressive really.

UltraPixel Photography with the New HTC One — HTC Blog

HTC need to promote more of this kind of thing and make a big deal about it! Everyone's saying the camera sucks, but in actual fact it doesn't. Not in the slightest.

 

[toad6386]

The HTC One was given to a couple of people and this is what was achieved. Quite impressive really.

UltraPixel Photography with the New HTC One — HTC Blog

HTC need to promote more of this kind of thing and make a big deal about it! Everyone's saying the camera sucks, but in actual fact it doesn't. Not in the slightest.

That's awsONE!!!:laugh: