Tea Party

[burgertime]

So these guys hate Socialism so much, why do they continue to use city streets and federal highways? Why do they call 911 when something bad happens, or expect the police to protect them? I can't wait for these folks to live what they preach and go totally off the grid. I really want them to commit to what they believe in!

 

[i VTAK]

The far right wingers are nutjobs, that's why. They love to preach, but still do whatever thay want.

 

[Crude]

Are you serious? Both of you?


Note: Be very careful what's in your next post.

 

[i VTAK]

Are you serious? Both of you?


Note: Be very careful what's in your next post.

Yes I'm very serious. What's to be careful about?

 

[Crude]

The far right wingers are nutjobs, that's why. They love to preach, but still do whatever thay want.

Doesn't that apply to the entire left? Every party has nut jobs....the tea party is pretty diverse but they are far from nut jobs...

 

[i VTAK]

You're right, there are crazies on each side. The Tea Party folk are against taxes and stuff right? Do you or they, realize how much is paid for by taxes?

Just like the first post said, lots of things are there to help you because of taxes. The roads you travel, the police who protect you, the Army that defends you, all this is paid for by taxes. I don't get how people expect the government to operate without collecting taxes.

 

[Crude]

You're right, there are crazies on each side. The Tea Party folk are against taxes and stuff right? Do you or they, realize how much is paid for by taxes?

Just like the first post said, lots of things are there to help you because of taxes. The roads you travel, the police who protect you, the Army that defends you, all this is paid for by taxes. I don't get how people expect the government to operate without collecting taxes.

Exactly! Taxes are necessary... no one is against taxes. Read up on the tea party, I for the life of me cannot understand how any American can be against them. The tea party is against more taxes, specific taxes.

I figured based on my last paycheck that I pay 22% of my wages to state and federal taxes. Another 5% in property taxes. I'm not a wealthy man. I've worked 50 to 60 hours a week since i was 18 to be where I am now... average.

 

[burgertime]

Exactly! Taxes are necessary... no one is against taxes. Read up on the tea party, I for the life of me cannot understand how any American can be against them. The tea party is against more taxes, specific taxes.

I figured based on my last paycheck that I pay 22% of my wages to state and federal taxes. Another 5% in property taxes. I'm not a wealthy man. I've worked 50 to 60 hours a week since i was 18 to be where I am now... average.

Yet the majority of tea party folks cared less when Bush taxed the poor while giving breaks to the rich, or when he passed the Patriot Act and actually infringed on our rights as Americans through illegal wire taps and illegal search and seizures. Where was this party of "normal" (by normal I mean white, right wing leaning) folks protesting those actions? Let's not fool ourselves this is simply a democrat vs. republican thing. It reminds me of the left when Florida was lost, instead of just sucking it up and accepting the loss the left cried and cried about it, all of the sudden every fringe lefty was an expert on voting laws and constitutional law, even though all their info came from obscure web blogs.

The Tea Party uses the term "socialism" like it's going out of style. At the very least their argument is fallacious because all they can use is a "slippery slope" defense. What I'm saying is that they refuse to accept that many of the daily things they do could be considered "socialist". So if they actually believe that bile they are spraying they should seriously get off the grid.

 

[Crude]

You're sidestepping the original post and the discussion resulting but I'll bite.

Yet the majority of tea party folks cared less when Bush taxed the poor while giving breaks to the rich,

Bush gave tax cuts- not hikes. Also the "poor" either don't get tax cuts or aren't "poor". Let me explain. IF you don't put in how can there be cuts? I am an average American. My wife and I make less then $100,000. I was getting the tax cuts in form of a return. I know this because this year, 10 years after the Bush tax cuts that were supposed to last 10 years my return inexplicable dropped.

I don't know how much the rich were getting as I'm not rich but consider what kinda money went to the rich in form of bailouts. Also, we have established that American politics are heavily influenced by the rich in from of lobbying. So maybe the rich are going to get their money one way or another...maybe that's part of the tea party? I know lots of them are sick of this money changing hands. Take our most recent health care bill. Guess who lobbied the hardest? The insurance industry did of course. They have everything to gain from this and nothing to loose.

or when he passed the Patriot Act and actually infringed on our rights as Americans through illegal wire taps and illegal search and seizures. Where was this party of "normal" (by normal I mean white, right wing leaning) folks protesting those actions?

Lots of us were upset. I know I was. The problem was that things were just starting to get bad. Things started going radically south around 9/11. It was the Obama administration that added the straw that broke the camels back in many minds and when you do that activists start taking the time to become active. Do you disagree. But I want to squash this "republicans did it so why can't the dems" attitude. Two wrongs NEVER make a right. So Bush's wrongs doesn't empower our current administration to pass bills that cannot be self sustaining.

Let's not fool ourselves this is simply a democrat vs. republican thing. It reminds me of the left when Florida was lost, instead of just sucking it up and accepting the loss the left cried and cried about it, all of the sudden every fringe lefty was an expert on voting laws and constitutional law, even though all their info came from obscure web blogs.

Not sure what this is about but I disagree. It WAS a republican vs dem thing..it's now a more taxes vs a less taxes thing. Thus the tea party.

The Tea Party uses the term "socialism" like it's going out of style. At the very least their argument is fallacious because all they can use is a "slippery slope" defense. What I'm saying is that they refuse to accept that many of the daily things they do could be considered "socialist". So if they actually believe that bile they are spraying they should seriously get off the grid.

Well socialism is what we are looking at....ever since Roosevelt maybe earlier. Remember the straw that broke the camels back? Roads are constructed and maintained on a state level. The federal goverment has NOTHING to do with roads, fire dept., police, etc. I fight local battles locally. Please don't confuse the two, you will discredit your self.

America is still a very special country. Trust me I have lived in Europe for more then a decade. Americans do not want what they got.

 

[burgertime]

You're sidestepping the original post and the discussion resulting but I'll bite.

Ummm...considering I was the OP..uh no.

Bush gave tax cuts- not hikes. Also the "poor" either don't get tax cuts or aren't "poor". Let me explain. IF you don't put in how can there be cuts? I am an average American. My wife and I make less then $100,000. I was getting the tax cuts in form of a return. I know this because this year, 10 years after the Bush tax cuts that were supposed to last 10 years my return inexplicable dropped.

I'm not sure what exactly the bolded means as it makes no sense at all to your argument. You basically just reinforced exactly what I said. The tax cuts went to the rich and not the poor. Your return dropped because of the 600 dollars Bush sent to everyone in his final year in office.

I don't know how much the rich were getting as I'm not rich but consider what kinda money went to the rich in form of bailouts.

I won't defend all the bailouts except to say that some of the larger ones like B of A was needed. Had ones like that dropped our country would have been devastated. Had it been Bush making that same decision I would stand behind it. So it's not a Dem vs. Rep thing. It you don't understand basic economics don't use that as an argument.

Also, we have established that American politics are heavily influenced by the rich in from of lobbying. So maybe the rich are going to get their money one way or another...maybe that's part of the tea party? I know lots of them are sick of this money changing hands. Take our most recent health care bill. Guess who lobbied the hardest? The insurance industry did of course. They have everything to gain from this and nothing to loose.

The Insurance companies lobbied against the bill. Which is why we didn't get universal care. Instead it's some Frankenstein bill that still gives somehow gives the insurance companies what they want (thanks Republicans). They still were upset by this bill as it eats into their bottom line but not as much as it would have. Amazing at the logic you guys use. When it's being brought up you hate it because it hurts the system. When it passes now somehow it helps the insurance companies, so more should have been done.

Lots of us were upset. I know I was. The problem was that things were just starting to get bad. Things started going radically south around 9/11. It was the Obama administration that added the straw that broke the camels back in many minds and when you do that activists start taking the time to become active. Do you disagree. But I want to squash this "republicans did it so why can't the dems" attitude. Two wrongs NEVER make a right. So Bush's wrongs doesn't empower our current administration to pass bills that cannot be self sustaining.

I don't understand what you even mean in the bolded part. But I'll just assume I don't agree since it makes no sense whatsoever.

Hmmm..so you're an economist I take it? Oh I know a government tax expert? Oh or you have a time machine and went into the future so you know it can't sustain it self? I'll tell you what I told my Uncle who complained about it. I have a friend whose wife had to have open heart surgery. He is now stuck with a 100,000 dollar bill. His wife recently had some stomach issues but they couldn't go to the hospital because of the debt. Turns out there were serious issues, she passed out and almost died. I would gladly pay 5 dollars more in taxes on every check for the rest of my life so my friend doesn't have to sacrifice his wife because of some ****ing ridiculous medical bills that insurance won't cover.

Not sure what this is about but I disagree. It WAS a republican vs dem thing..it's now a more taxes vs a less taxes thing. Thus the tea party.

Oh yeah those democrats are out in full effect with you guys. So are the blacks, Mexicans and other minorities.

Well socialism is what we are looking at....ever since Roosevelt maybe earlier. Remember the straw that broke the camels back? Roads are constructed and maintained on a state level. The federal goverment has NOTHING to do with roads, fire dept., police, etc. I fight local battles locally. Please don't confuse the two, you will discredit your self.

You are such an idiot. Yes roads are maintained by the state, but they get federal money for interstates and highways. They also get federal money for Emergency Services. Most of the state infrastructures you use most comes in the form of Federal money. Also umm...state taxes? Hello. That is still tax individuals are paying for the good of all. A true socialist system!

America is still a very special country. Trust me I have lived in Europe for more then a decade. Americans do not want what they got.

[citation needed]

 

[3devious]

The tax cuts went to the rich and not the poor. Your return dropped because of the 600 dollars Bush sent to everyone in his final year in office.

I guess I am rich then? Not so much. I also didn't get $600 during Bush's final year in office either. Rich folks like me probably didn't get it, right? Whatever. My return didn't drop because this is the last year of 'tax cuts for the rich.' Congress has already been saying that the president isn't going to be able to follow through on his promise that only the people making more than $250000 are going to be suffering from his flagrant overspending.

2 years ago when gas was slightly cheaper than it is now, people were calling for the President's head (as if he controls the price of gas anyway.) Now we're in the same boat and the prices haven't even gone up for the summer. Not a peep out of anyone, really. Is this because we're all driving hybrids and don't care? Have people finally figured out that the President doesn't control the price of gas (bravo for public education for once then,) or is it OK for gas to cost as much as it did when we were willing to start protesting/storming DC now that someone else is responsible for killing of the brown people in the middle east? Oh yeah, we don't do that anymore and the reports of any casualties are propaganda from disgruntled terrorists.

Instead of asking for clarity when you didn't understand what people were talking about when it was mentioned that Obama expanded the Patriot Act vs. "fixing things" like he has the power to do, you just disagreed out of hand (even though you admitted you didn't understand what was said) and resulted to name calling. The more savy extremists on the left stopped ranting about the Patroit act in light of that.

I am just waiting for you to declare that hockey games are hotbeds of KKK activity because not as many black people attend them. You are blindly attacking and making yourself look even weaker in the process. Please take some time to talk learn and about the issues instead of accusing everyone who doesn't agree with that liberal propaganda of being a bunch of racist rich people who want to kill all of the brown people.

PS: I don't want the government taking over everything, but you can bet I am going to use the roads and public services because 27% of my income pays for that crap. I am willing to pay taxes but when you raise my taxes and cut the programs that actually help people, I have a problem with it. Just like people don't want to pay more for less service (Verizon, I am watching you,) don't give me any garbage about being some racist enemy of the state because I want my government to stop taking more money out of my pocket to do less, not just for me but everyone. You want your healthcare to become some bargaining chip at every election and fiscal budget cycle?
Isn't it bad enough that this happens to our schools and infrastructure services? If you think this is a better way to do things, you are as foolish as they want you to be.

If your only response is going to be "I don't know why you said that, but you're wrong," don't waste your time unless you enjoy making yourself look like a pamphlet distributed by Pelosi or Boxer.

 

[burgertime]

I guess I am rich then? Not so much. I also didn't get $600 during Bush's final year in office either. Rich folks like me probably didn't get it, right? Whatever. My return didn't drop because this is the last year of 'tax cuts for the rich.' Congress has already been saying that the president isn't going to be able to follow through on his promise that only the people making more than $250000 are going to be suffering from his flagrant overspending.

2 years ago when gas was slightly cheaper than it is now, people were calling for the President's head (as if he controls the price of gas anyway.) Now we're in the same boat and the prices haven't even gone up for the summer. Not a peep out of anyone, really. Is this because we're all driving hybrids and don't care? Have people finally figured out that the President doesn't control the price of gas (bravo for public education for once then,) or is it OK for gas to cost as much as it did when we were willing to start protesting/storming DC now that someone else is responsible for killing of the brown people in the middle east? Oh yeah, we don't do that anymore and the reports of any casualties are propaganda from disgruntled terrorists.

Instead of asking for clarity when you didn't understand what people were talking about when it was mentioned that Obama expanded the Patriot Act vs. "fixing things" like he has the power to do, you just disagreed out of hand (even though you admitted you didn't understand what was said) and resulted to name calling. The more savy extremists on the left stopped ranting about the Patroit act in light of that.

I am just waiting for you to declare that hockey games are hotbeds of KKK activity because not as many black people attend them. You are blindly attacking and making yourself look even weaker in the process. Please take some time to talk learn and about the issues instead of accusing everyone who doesn't agree with that liberal propaganda of being a bunch of racist rich people who want to kill all of the brown people.

PS: I don't want the government taking over everything, but you can bet I am going to use the roads and public services because 27% of my income pays for that crap. I am willing to pay taxes but when you raise my taxes and cut the programs that actually help people, I have a problem with it. Just like people don't want to pay more for less service (Verizon, I am watching you,) don't give me any garbage about being some racist enemy of the state because I want my government to stop taking more money out of my pocket to do less, not just for me but everyone. You want your healthcare to become some bargaining chip at every election and fiscal budget cycle?
Isn't it bad enough that this happens to our schools and infrastructure services? If you think this is a better way to do things, you are as foolish as they want you to be.

If your only response is going to be "I don't know why you said that, but you're wrong," don't waste your time unless you enjoy making yourself look like a pamphlet distributed by Pelosi or Boxer.

lol what in the devil are you talking about? Did I call anyone a racist? However since I called the Tea Party white republicans it's understandable you would associate that with racists.

All your logical fallacies and circular logic speak for themselves.

 

[Crude]

Forget it. $600 bush sent everyone? Educate yourself before you start a topic like this one again.

 

[3devious]

I don't understand what you even mean in the bolded part. But I'll just assume I don't agree since it makes no sense whatsoever.
<snip>
You are such an idiot.

All your logical fallacies and circular logic speak for themselves.

It seems that you are the one who is unskilled in debate. You equated those tea party people to racists and the fact that you have to resort to name calling and can't manage to address any real facts without using the talking points from extreme leftists suggest that you really need to do some soul searching and go out and learn something before discussing grown up topics with others.

You are the one embarassing yourself in public, that speaks for itself.

 

[burgertime]

Forget it. $600 bush sent everyone? Educate yourself before you start a topic like this one again.

Bush Tax Rebate 2008

 

[burgertime]

It seems that you are the one who is unskilled in debate. You equated those tea party people to racists and the fact that you have to resort to name calling and can't manage to address any real facts without using the talking points from extreme leftists suggest that you really need to do some soul searching and go out and learn something before discussing grown up topics with others.

You are the one embarassing yourself in public, that speaks for itself.

Yep guilty as charged if by embarrassing myself you mean placating totally illogical arguments. This is the problem with this whole Tea Party business none of the major news outlets are calling it for what it is and pointing out the obvious logic fail in all of it.

 

[Crude]

Bush Tax Rebate 2008

What does a check from 2008 have to do with my 2009 tax returns? Seriously? And stop with caption pics.

 

[3devious]

I don't see the caption pics, so I can't be as annoyed as he probably hopes.

Burgertime, you don't placate or even discuss anything. You created this topic to spout off about things you obviously know nothing of.

If you can't entertain the idea that there should be real discussion on how public funds are meted out instead of spreading propaganda that pressures the people into funding initiatives that don't really serve the people equally as you try to equate all of these things to common services like roads and civic services (those things that suddenly come in jeopardy when someone makes a power play or wants more funds for the coffers,) you really had no business in starting a post. You should just place it out there somewhere that no one can respond to it since you obviously aren't looking for discussion.

The idea that people should just blindly tithe funds just because the government says so is not something that the Tea Party should protest, but everyone should.

 

[3devious]

Bush Tax Rebate 2008

$600 did not go to everyone. Read it again. People can call them the Bush Tax cuts but they were supported by the Congress as well. The article said that it was a bipartisan congress, but guess what? It has had a majority in the house and almost the senate for nearly 5 years.

 

[hakr100]

The so-called "Tea Party" has nothing to do with anything but expressing hatred of Barack Obama. It's "membership" is made up of mostly white males who feel "disenfranchised" because of the changing demographics in this country.

 

[Crude]

The so-called "Tea Party" has nothing to do with anything but expressing hatred of Barack Obama. It's "membership" is made up of mostly white males who feel "disenfranchised" because of the changing demographics in this country.

So it's a race thing? Gtfo how naive do you think Americans are?

 

[hakr100]

Well, they bought into "Weapons of Mass Destruction."

Yeah, it's about racism. Just look at your avatar here.

 

[Crude]

Yeah, it's about racism. Just look at your avatar here.

I normally refrain from out rightly telling people they are an idiot but that statement takes the cake. I will not ever be able to take anything you say seriously from here on out. Under that logic the pic I posted above means I'm into bestiality.

 

[hakr100]

I normally refrain from out rightly telling people they are an idiot but that statement takes the cake. I will not ever be able to take anything you say seriously from here on out. Under that logic the pic I posted above means I'm into bestiality.

What's your preference in beasts?

 

[IOWA]

I think it's funny when a white person disagrees with a minority they just LOOOVE to play the "race card" when it's got absolutely nothing to do with racism. It's getting old and tired.

Sigh.