Mass Shooting at Navy Yard

[SiempreTuna]

I'm sorry, but discussing how to try to mitigate symptoms will not stop the root cause of the problem .. You don't give someone JUST ibuprofen to treat cancer, if you actually want to fix the problem. You'd say its preposterous if a doctor did that, potentially malpractice

I completely agree.

We have similar issues around mental health treatment here in the UK and for exactly the same basic reason: Reagan's contemporary, Thatcher decided (or her govt did) that instead of treating people in 'expensive' sanitariums, they'd 'treat patients in the community'. Apply your cancer analogy to that ..

Unsurprisingly - because many argued it at the time - this has essentially amounted to throwing the mentally ill out on the street. With the inevitable results.

Here, this has led to a huge number of mentally ill people ending up in prison. So actually, this so called money saving initiative, hasn't saved a penny, it has simply moved spending from one govt department to another and made a lot of already blighted lives even more miserable.

I'd rather not turn this into a gun debate, as there's a thread for that, and this'll go back and forth all day

No, no - it'd be WAY longer than a day

I foolishly allowed myself to be dragged in to discussing guns. I know I should have let it lie. I will now endeavour to ..

 

[dibblebill]

I completely agree.

We have similar issues around mental health treatment here in the UK and for exactly the same basic reason: Reagan's contemporary, Thatcher decided (or her govt did) that instead of treating people in 'expensive' sanitariums, they'd 'treat patients in the community'. Apply your cancer analogy to that ..

Unsurprisingly - because many argued it at the time - this has essentially amounted to throwing the mentally ill out on the street. With the inevitable results.

Here, this has led to a huge number of mentally ill people ending up in prison. So actually, this so called money saving initiative, hasn't saved a penny, it has simply moved spending from one govt department to another and made a lot of already blighted lives even more miserable.



No, no - it'd be WAY longer than a day

I foolishly allowed myself to be dragged in to discussing guns. I know I should have let it lie. I will now endeavour to ..

I will endeavour to it as well. I firmly believe there are nuts on BOTH sides of the debate (regardless of where I stand)b ut we have a thread for that.

This incident DOES open a thread for discussion of mental situations though, pertaining to health. I think that would be more pertinent here.

I think a big part of the issue isn't evne treatment, its societal.We tell people that its not okay to not be okay, so they never go in for treatment. This is compouinded by how many "illnesses" come with the stigmata of becoming unhirable in many fields, and a total lack of treatment. In the US, this is further amplified by the laws put in place by corporatist Senators that protect pharmaceuticals and forbid non-pharmaceutical prescriptions, including any kind of behavioral therapies that may benefit someone more than psychoactive drugs. Hell, my doctor's first response (because of sponsors and laws) to me being overweight was drugs, not food and exercise (I must say, I've never really doubted or disputed a doctor before now, but I've lost 9 pounds without his meds). Apply this to mental medicine, and the US and most of the world have evolved a HUGE societal cancer regarding mental health.

I find it interesting you see all sorts of physical health programs and help, but nothing for mental health. Its an area that needs SERIOUS addressing so that we stop having shootings, stabbings, and such on the scale we're seeing. I'm not stupid, it won't cure the issue of murder, but it will help with some of them, as well as generally improve the mental and societal health of nations. At least, in my maybe-delusional world, it would.

 

[starkraving]

Agreed. Mental health is one of the first fundings to get hacked at the state level in every state. As apparent by the closing of a lot of state mental health institutions. Being a Vegas resident its very in your face with our HUGE homeless population, most of which have been diagnosed with a disorder or two. (Nevada can only hold a person for a 72 hour observation), "One can not be confined for poor judgement." To quote our governor...

 

[chrlswltrs]

Here is another piece of information that makes you wonder what really happened... the DC SWAT team that arrived on site 5 minutes after the shooting started was ordered to stand down and leave. The shooting then continued for another 40 minutes. This team is one of the most highly trained units in the country and is the group responsible for protecting Congress if an event happens at the Capitol.

Here is one of the stories, but because some people only believe state run media sources go ahead and do a Google search if you need a more or less credible source: Report: Swat Team Told To 'Stand Down' At Navy Yard Massacre - Fox Nation

 

[pbf98]

Good thing Military personnel aren't allowed to be armed while on a Military base..

and contrary to many beliefs Clinton did not make the executive order. It was actually a change in regulations made by the Department of the Army, that was actually in response to a US Department of Defense directive issued in February 92 During George H.W. Bush's presidency

in other news.. a gun was arrested today for killing someone while wielding a person

 

[ElasticNinja]

Agreed. Mental health is one of the first fundings to get hacked at the state level in every state. As apparent by the closing of a lot of state mental health institutions. Being a Vegas resident its very in your face with our HUGE homeless population, most of which have been diagnosed with a disorder or two. (Nevada can only hold a person for a 72 hour observation), "One can not be confined for poor judgement." To quote our governor...

Yeah, same here in Ireland, mental health provision is really underfunded. It's really due to a difference in public perception I guess. Cancer treatment is very well funded in contrast, because it gains far more public support.

Obviously the situation is better than in the US but that's like comparing us to C

 

[dibblebill]

Its much easier to blame on guns and cheaper, too. Its always easier to blame an inanimate object that can be signed away rather than a commitment.