Question- Why do applications still say open?

[TDianna]

I am just wondering about this.....I had the same issue with my old LG phone..is it because all these phones have a flash memory? Are there any app's besides task managers that can close the app's for good?

 

[alprazolam]

I'm guessing that you are asking why you open task killer and see apps open when you haven't used them? If so, that is because they open in the background for caching of info and syncing. Some apps don't close properly and you have to go in there and manually tell it to exit or kill the task if you use a task killer. OTD seems to be really up on this and I'm sure she'll come behind me and offer some helpful insight.

 

[tonyb81]

I'm guessing that you are asking why you open task killer and see apps open when you haven't used them? If so, that is because they open in the background for caching of info and syncing. Some apps don't close properly and you have to go in there and manually tell it to exit or kill the task if you use a task killer. OTD seems to be really up on this and I'm sure she'll come behind me and offer some helpful insight.

Don't forget to cough.

 

[alprazolam]

Don't forget to cough.

Funny

 

[truelove79]

I'm totally gonna steal OTD's link here, but I can't help it, it's got great information.

FAQ: Why You Shouldn’t Be Using a Task Killer with Android Geek For Me – Android CDMA Sprint Hero

Anyway, this is explaining why you don't need a task killer with Android, but it's very informative as far as how apps, and processes are handled in Android. In summary, Android is not Windows, it handles memory differently. It won't hurt it if many things are "running" all the time.

 

[gpa111]

This whole do not use a task killer business does not explain why it DOES make my phone run faster if it has more than 50 MB of free ram...

 

[OfTheDamned]

I am just wondering about this.....I had the same issue with my old LG phone..is it because all these phones have a flash memory? Are there any app's besides task managers that can close the app's for good?

Some apps are going to restart no matter what you do. They are apart of the system and they are going to restart no matter how many times you kill them. Take a look at System Panel (Systempanel in the market). It is a task killer/app manager that will actually show you what state these apps are in and usually helps people understand what their phone is doing in the background. Some of the apps you are concerned about may actually not be doing anything. Sense may just be using a part of the app for something.

This whole do not use a task killer business does not explain why it DOES make my phone run faster if it has more than 50 MB of free ram...

Who said "do no use a task killer"? I don't remember that anywhere. I know that many have said that you don't need a task killer. Also people have told others that they might want to get rid of their task killer when they are having issues with the OS. Don't remember anyone saying do not use one though.

If you want one, have fun. Nobody is telling you that you can't use one. If you feel that it makes your phone faster, that is cool. My question is, how long do you actually keep that 50 MB of free RAM? I hear people talk about freeing up RAM, but I never hear how long they have that RAM for or what they need it for. I understand that the phone runs faster, but aren't you simply reallocating that RAM to another app? If not, then why do you need it in the first place? Not trying to start a whole debate, I'm just curious because I've never understood it.

 

[smacky]

People use it for wrong reasons. It kills apps immediately, rather than waiting for the OS to realize it's no longer in use. Apps that stream audio content, for me, do no shut down on their own and remain open in the background and continue to drain battery. Examples include the few times I use Pandora and MLB At Bat which is used daily.

That's why I use it. If my phone starts to lag while I'm typing (keyboard lag) I back out real quick and tap the the ATK widget to free it up.

I have mine customized to where it brings me back to 85+Mb every single time, regardless of what's running. I end up hitting it about twice a day, one during the day, once while on it at night.

 

[TDianna]

Don't forget to cough.

Shall I turn my head when I cough?

 

[TDianna]

People use it for wrong reasons. It kills apps immediately, rather than waiting for the OS to realize it's no longer in use. Apps that stream audio content, for me, do no shut down on their own and remain open in the background and continue to drain battery. Examples include the few times I use Pandora and MLB At Bat which is used daily.

That's why I use it. If my phone starts to lag while I'm typing (keyboard lag) I back out real quick and tap the the ATK widget to free it up.

I have mine customized to where it brings me back to 85+Mb every single time, regardless of what's running. I end up hitting it about twice a day, one during the day, once while on it at night.

ATK widget?

 

[hallstevenson]

Why do (some) apps stay open ? One reason is to give the appearance of speed. If you run an app, then "exit" it or run a 2nd one, now when you re-run the original app, it "opens" really quickly, doesn't it ?

 

[gpa111]

Who said "do no use a task killer"? I don't remember that anywhere. I know that many have said that you don't need a task killer. Also people have told others that they might want to get rid of their task killer when they are having issues with the OS. Don't remember anyone saying do not use one though.

If you want one, have fun. Nobody is telling you that you can't use one. If you feel that it makes your phone faster, that is cool. My question is, how long do you actually keep that 50 MB of free RAM? I hear people talk about freeing up RAM, but I never hear how long they have that RAM for or what they need it for. I understand that the phone runs faster, but aren't you simply reallocating that RAM to another app? If not, then why do you need it in the first place? Not trying to start a whole debate, I'm just curious because I've never understood it.

I didn't post that to piss anyone off, I have just noticed that it is needed. It doesn't seem to me that any apps reopen on their own other than, stocks, peep, footprints, and the obvious ones that sync.

I just tried uninstalling mine and booting the phone without it on, the phone is almost useless running the apps in the background that run.

my 2c

 

[TDianna]

I didn't post that to piss anyone off, I have just noticed that it is needed. It doesn't seem to me that any apps reopen on their own other than, stocks, peep, footprints, and the obvious ones that sync.

I just tried uninstalling mine and booting the phone without it on, the phone is almost useless running the apps in the background that run.

my 2c

Wow....what did I start? LOL

 

[hrbib21]

Stocks, Peep, Footprints, and IM are embedded within the OS so there's nothing you can do about them (unless you root, of course).

As mentioned, some apps simply do not close on their own, such as the camera and Pandora, so I use ATM to close them. Most things on my phone are excluded, however.

 

[OfTheDamned]

I didn't post that to piss anyone off, I have just noticed that it is needed. It doesn't seem to me that any apps reopen on their own other than, stocks, peep, footprints, and the obvious ones that sync.

I just tried uninstalling mine and booting the phone without it on, the phone is almost useless running the apps in the background that run.

my 2c

You didn't piss anyone off, please don't take my post that way.

You don't have to uninstall it to test running things without one, btw. Just don't use it for a few days. Most say that it takes a couple of days of not using a TK to see a difference. Try it if you want or don't if you are happy with things the way they are. Entirely up to you.

I will add this though. In most cases backing out of apps, using the back button instead of the home button, will close many of those apps. For other apps, like Pandora, there are quit or exit options when you hit the menu button. The only reason I say this is that many people don't realize this and it leads to a very bad user experience. Now, there are some poorly written apps out there that will never act right and when you have one of those a TK can and does become useful to people.

 

[hallstevenson]

People need to remember, you do NOT have to set your task killers to run all the time. I only run mine when I need it and I also include itself in the kill list so it doesn't stay running after I launch it.

 

[truelove79]

I just tried uninstalling mine and booting the phone without it on, the phone is almost useless running the apps in the background that run.

Then perhaps you've just got too many CPU hogging apps installed. Find out which ones are causing problems and hogging resources and get rid of them or use their settings to configure them so they don't do anything when you're not using them. The problem isn't the amount of RAM available, the problem is the apps using resources when they shouldn't be. If that's the case, the apps are to blame, not the Eris or Android.

It's similar to when I troubleshoot a person's windows computer and find that they're running a bajillion programs in the system tray and they wonder why their computer is so slow. It's not Windows or their computer's fault, it's the fact that all those programs are taking up every spare resource on their PC. All they have to do is uninstall them or configure them to not run or update all the time and they're good to go.

Android does a good job of killing an app when it needs memory, but only if that app isn't actively doing something. If the app is configured to do something all the time and you've got a ton of those types of apps installed, of course your phone will slow down.

I, like OTD, run system panel. I've been running it for a long time. It'll let you know which apps are doing what. OS monitor is another one. That will actually put a graph in the notification area to tell you your CPU usage. It will also show what percentage load each app is placing on the CPU. If you find an app is loading the CPU all the time, find out why.

Now this isn't to say the Eris is perfect and is entirely blameless. I will admit it is a bit underpowered and Sense can be a pain sometimes. Most problems would just go away if the Eris had more power. And no one is telling you you CAN'T run an task killer, just don't get obsessive about it. Let Android do it's job and if you find an app is misbehaving, kill it and find out how to fix the problem rather than just removing the symptom.

 

[5thElement]

This whole do not use a task killer business does not explain why it DOES make my phone run faster if it has more than 50 MB of free ram...

Here is an explanation with proof. You should disregard many links to articles posted by a few anti-taskkiller members here as they do not go into more details like I do nor do they explain the lag caused when memory is low as I will explain with hard proof.

People will argue that Android is Linux based and that Linux reallocates memory as needed. This maybe true but it is this EXACT process of reallocating memory that slows down the Eris and causes lag when you are low on memory. Unfortunately some members here think this process is magically instant. Its not. No phone is any where near the speed of PCs and reallocating memory on the eris takes time and this time is the extra lag you feel when you are low on memory.

When the system is low on memory the process of reallocating memory is not instant and you can see this very easily by simply using an App called aLogcat. There you can clearly see all processes running, even Android system processes. What is great about this little app is you can see the memory reallocation processes and the times it takes to process. These times are exactly parallel to the extra lag you and I feel when the device is low on memory.

This is the main reason why you need task killer apps, to keep your Eris memory free so that these reallocation processes do not occur.

I have researched this topic quite a lot and the proof is undeniable. Unfortunately some anti-taskkiller members refuse to acknowledge this, turn their heads, and point to articles that simply state "Android is Linux based and reallocates memory as needed so you don’t need a task killer app" yet these articles completely overlook the lag that is caused due to these processes and do not answer questions like you have asked.

Well my friend, you now have an answer. Yes, you do need your task killer app.

 

[OfTheDamned]

Here is an explanation with proof. You should disregard many links to articles posted by a few anti-taskkiller members here as they do not go into more details like I do nor do they explain the lag caused when memory is low as I will explain with hard proof.

People will argue that Android is Linux based and that Linux reallocates memory as needed. This maybe true but it is this EXACT process of reallocating memory that slows down the Eris and causes lag when you are low on memory. Unfortunately some members here think this process is magically instant. Its not. No phone is any where near the speed of PCs and reallocating memory on the eris takes time and this time is the extra lag you feel when you are low on memory.

When the system is low on memory the process of reallocating memory is not instant and you can see this very easily by simply using an App called aLogcat. There you can clearly see all processes running, even Android system processes. What is great about this little app is you can see the memory reallocation processes and the times it takes to process. These times are exactly parallel to the extra lag you and I feel when the device is low on memory.

This is the main reason why you need task killer apps, to keep your Eris memory free so that these reallocation processes do not occur.

I have researched this topic quite a lot and the proof is undeniable. Unfortunately some anti-taskkiller members refuse to acknowledge this, turn their heads, and point to articles that simply state "Android is Linux based and reallocates memory as needed so you don’t need a task killer app" yet these articles completely overlook the lag that is caused due to these processes and do not answer questions like you have asked.

Well my friend, you now have an answer. Yes, you do need your task killer app.

And yet again, telling someone that they have to have something or can't have something on their own phone is just silly. Just as silly as telling everyone that they should buy a different phone because they don't like a single feature.

I still don't think you have actually read any of my posts. If you had then you wouldn't make half the comments that you make.

As I have said before, people need to make their own mind up on this issue. Try the phone both ways while using it properly and determine what works best for them. The claim that anything is a need or as you mean it a necessity on someone else's phone is both foolish and rather arrogant.

 

[5thElement]

And yet again, telling someone that they have to have something or can't have something on their own phone is just silly. Just as silly as telling everyone that they should buy a different phone because they don't like a single feature.

I still don't think you have actually read any of my posts. If you had then you wouldn't make half the comments that you make.

As I have said before, people need to make their own mind up on this issue. Try the phone both ways while using it properly and determine what works best for them. The claim that anything is a need or as you mean it a necessity on someone else's phone is both foolish and rather arrogant.

Please re-read his concern. He wanted to know why his phone still runs faster when he frees up memory with a taskkill app instead of letting Android manage it. The article you point to in your sig does not have an answer and completely overlooks the consequences of letting Android reallocate memory on its own. I though my replay was well constructed, informative, and with accurate information which anyone can see for themselves. Dont you agree????

For his specific situation he is gong to need to keep his task killer app to keep the performance edge he has stated he is getting by using one.

As a side note, the other day you have asked me nicely to be nice and now you are instigating me? Why?

 

[OfTheDamned]

Please re-read his concern. He wanted to know why his phone still runs faster when he frees up memory with a taskkill app instead of letting Android manage it. The article you point to in your sig does not have an answer and completely overlooks the consequences of letting Android reallocate memory on its own. I though my replay was well constructed, informative, and with accurate information which anyone can see for themselves. Dont you agree????

As a side note, the other day you have asked me nicely to be nice and now you are instigating me? Why?

I read his concern and I have already provided information to help. How useful it is and whether or not he is willing to try it is up to him.

Also, I am not instigating in any way. You made direct reference to the article in my signature, myself and others that don't find task killers useful. I was responding to that along with your stated "need" of a task killer. If you had stated accurate information, I would have never said a word. The simple fact that I can use my phone, as can others, with out one takes away this supposed necessity. The fact that you are even unwilling to suggest that someone tries to learn about using their phone properly without one doesn't help either.

 

[5thElement]

The simple fact that I can use my phone, as can others, with out one takes away this supposed necessity. The fact that you are even unwilling to suggest that someone tries to learn about using their phone properly without one doesn't help either.

You are changing the subject. We all know the phone will work without task killer apps. Again, he wanted to know why his phone works FASTER when he uses them. There is no "proper" way to use your phone in this situation. Since Android does not remove applications from RAM when they are closed, no matter what you do the available RAM will get used up one way or another as soon as you start using applications. Other than using task killer apps (or rebooting your phone which takes forever) there is nothing you can do to free memory and avoid the Android memory reallocation processes which have proven to be the cause of slow downs once memory becomes low.

All I did was explain to him why his phone works faster when he kills off apps from memory with task killers. He was not interested in why his phone plainly works without them.

 

[OfTheDamned]

You are changing the subject. We all know the phone will work without task killer apps. Again, he wanted to know why his phone works FASTER when he uses them. There is no "proper" way to use your phone in this situation. Since Android does not remove applications from RAM when they are closed, no matter what you do the available RAM will get used up one way or another as soon as you start using applications. Other than using task killer apps (or rebooting your phone which takes forever) there is nothing you can do to free memory and avoid the Android memory reallocation processes which have proven to be the cause of slow downs once memory becomes low.

All I did was explain to him why his phone works faster when he kills off apps from memory with task killers. He was not interested in why his phone plainly works without them.

You may need to go back and read the posts again. I didn't change the subject at all. You still chose to read what you want out of my posts and ignore the rest.

Here, I'll break down the conversation for you:

You made a statement that a task killer is a necessity for the phone. You then made reference to the link in my sig and stated that anyone who disagreed with you and your "proof" should be disregarded. After that I replied to you and you attempted to play victim as though I was instigating something with you. After you brought me into your post with your comments. Next you again tried to claim the necessity of a task killer for the Eris. Last, you edit down my post and ignored the first half to tell me I am changing the subject. Then once again tried to assert that something is a necessity.

The only thing I have stated in this thread and every other thread on this subject is that telling people that a task killer is a requirement for the phone is foolish. There are no requirements for this phone or any other. People are free to use what ever applications they want or not use any if that is their wish. As I told him in my original reply, nobody is telling anyone not to do something with their own phone. As I have repeated to you and others over and over again on this subject, quit telling people what to do with their phones. Offering a suggestion is one thing and can be helpful when people have a problem. Telling people that they have to do something and that there is no other way to accomplish their goal is foolish, arrogant and laughable.

Let me ask you this, since you claim to have researched this quite a bit, how many developers at Google have you spoken with on the subject? How many techs have you talked to at HTC? The ones that I have spoken with all told me that this is, in most cases, unneeded software. They have agreed that when an app is not working properly that something needs to be implemented to stop it, which is why the OS has that function in the first place. Oddly, none of them ever said a task killer was a necessity.

EDIT: I guess that you can't answer that now as you have been banned.

 

[jayjay1122]

FWIW, I have run my Eris for fairly equal lengths of time with Advanced Task Manager and without. I have found no discernible difference in system performance either way. The only difference I have found is when running ATM if I killed my *downloaded apps* prior to putting the phone to sleep, I would get better battery life.

 

[Brainfart]

Heres a Cut & Paste from Android Developers Blog
I think this may clear up some confusion or at least explain running applications a little better on Android OS. If this has been posted before sorry about double posting.
Hope this helps.

When does an application "stop"?

A common misunderstanding about Android multitasking is the difference between a process and an application. In Android these are not tightly coupled entities: applications may seem present to the user without an actual process currently running the app; multiple applications may share processes, or one application may make use of multiple processes depending on its needs; the process(es) of an application may be kept around by Android even when that application is not actively doing something.
The fact that you can see an application's process "running" does not mean the application is running or doing anything. It may simply be there because Android needed it at some point, and has decided that it would be best to keep it around in case it needs it again. Likewise, you may leave an application for a little bit and return to it from where you left off, and during that time Android may have needed to get rid of the process for other things.
A key to how Android handles applications in this way is that processes don't shut down cleanly. When the user leaves an application, its process is kept around in the background, allowing it to continue working (for example downloading web pages) if needed, and come immediately to the foreground if the user returns to it. If a device never runs out of memory, then Android will keep all of these processes around, truly leaving all applications "running" all of the time.
Of course, there is a limited amount of memory, and to accommodate this Android must decide when to get rid of processes that are not needed. This leads to Android's process lifecycle, the rules it uses to decide how important each process is and thus the next one that should be dropped. These rules are based on both how important a process is for the user's current experience, as well as how long it has been since the process was last needed by the user.
Once Android determines that it needs to remove a process, it does this brutally, simply force-killing it. The kernel can then immediately reclaim all resources needed by the process, without relying on that application being well written and responsive to a polite request to exit. Allowing the kernel to immediately reclaim application resources makes it a lot easier to avoid serious out of memory situations.
If a user later returns to an application that's been killed, Android needs a way to re-launch it in the same state as it was last seen, to preserve the "all applications are running all of the time" experience. This is done by keeping track of the parts of the application the user is aware of (the Activities), and re-starting them with information about the last state they were seen in. This last state is generated each time the user leaves that part of the application, not when it is killed, so that the kernel can later freely kill it without depending on the application to respond correctly at that point.
In some ways, Android's process management can be seen as a form of swap space: application processes represent a certain amount of in-use memory; when memory is low, some processes can be killed (swapped out); when those processes are needed again, they can be re-started from their last saved state (swapped in).