Help High G Brodband

[Sionet]

How long will it be here in the UK when we can use a higher G for both phones and Broadband instead of slow fibre speeds with our ancient phone lines?

 

[Hadron]

What do you mean by "a higher G"?

 

[mikedt]

Ask BT.

 

[psionandy]

Virgin are going to give me a free 20Mbps upgrade in September to 70Mbps... So may be worth switching if your on an old adsl connection.

Not sure there's enough allocated /allocatable spectrum to get rid of all of the wired connections though.

 

[Sionet]

We had a boffin give a talk in our club http://herc-hastings.org.uk/ claiming the day will come when they achieve much higher G for mobiles and broadband, then most broadband will be using Radio G. But at present the best G is no faster than fibre using our old phone lines

 

[El Presidente]

I'm going to hazard a guess and say no one here knows what "Radio G" is, sorry. Can you explain exactly what you mean please?

Broadband speeds in this country are generally pretty good. Fibre/BT Infinity gives me 70Mbps download speeds and I know of mates elswhere in the country that get higher than that. If I'm in an area with decent cell coverage, I can get close to 87Mbps using 4G on my phone (this "G" is what I suspect you're talking about).

If you moving from 4G to 5G, have a look through this: http://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/future-tech/5-things-you-should-know-about-5g-1288071

They've also only just started testing it in the States: http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/22/verizon-starts-testing-5g/ so we're a couple of years away from widespread adoption.

 

[chanchan05]

They're probably talking about the G in 4G and 3G. Radio G is an incorrect term for those, and this is the first time I've heard the wireless speeds called that.

In essence though, no matter if you use 4G or 3G or 5G, the wireless speeds can't become faster than the speed of the wires supplying the radio towers. So what if your carrier has 4G signal capable of 80mbps, when the cable supplying that tower is only capable of 30mbps, then the data transmitted by the tower will never reach full potential.

 

[mikedt]

We had a boffin give a talk at our club claiming the day will come when they achieve teleportation.

 

[Sionet]

That was the first question I asked as Club Secretary before he started his lecture, but he preferred to explain it in his talk. I hope you are all aware mobile phones work entirely by numerous repeaters by Radio , so if you use the internet with a tablet it will NOT need BT ancient phone lines. However though you might think 5 G is marvellous already, its speed online it not good as some fibre. My BT fibre was 19 Mps for a very short while but after a few crashes by their hub probably because of the decrepit lines here cannot cope with faster speeds, it is now only just over 14 Mps. When I complained to BT they claimed they can now only guarantee up 10 Mps. Have you noticed in their current TV ad they now only promise up to 17 Mps.

Since your tablet is not connected to the phone lines it is irrelevant what state the lines are as like mobiles the signals are using Radio all the way. You would be amused at the trouble they go to use the same channel for several mobiles to share a fraction of a second at a time. But he said beware of being disconnected for a while if you do not stay still so it cannot find you!

Actually it was radio amateurs who first developed using repeaters by Radio. In fact due to being 82 I use the free http://www.echolink.org/ using hundreds of repeaters with this PC instead of risking erecting huge antennas.

 

[mikedt]

That was the first question I asked as Club Secretary before he started his lecture, but he preferred to explain it in his talk. I hope you are all aware mobile phones work entirely by numerous repeaters by Radio , so if you use the internet with a tablet it will NOT need BT ancient phone lines. However though you might think 5 G is marvellous already, its speed online it not good as some fibre. My BT fibre was 19 Mps for a very short while but after a few crashes by their hub probably because of the decrepit lines here cannot cope with faster speeds, it is now only just over 14 Mps. When I complained to BT they claimed they can now only guarantee up 10 Mps. Have you noticed in their current TV ad they now only promise up to 17 Mps.

Before I became a teacher, I used to work for BT as a lineman, so I know how crap and/or ancient some of their plant could be. Yeh, aluminium cable, that was a good idea...NOT!

Since your tablet is not connected to the phone lines it is irrelevant what state the lines are as like mobiles the signals are using Radio all the way. You would be amused at the trouble they go to use the same channel for several mobiles to share a fraction of a second at a time. But he said beware of being disconnected for a while if you do not stay still so it cannot find you!

Actually it was radio amateurs who first developed using repeaters by Radio. In fact due to being 82 I use the free http://www.echolink.org/ using hundreds of repeaters with this PC instead of risking erecting huge antennas.

That's cheating IMO. I'm a radio amateur, and I don't even have a radio!

BTW it was also radio amateurs who were some of the first users of TCP/IP outside of academia and the US military. TCP/IP is one of the things that makes the internet work of course.

 

[chanchan05]

That was the first question I asked as Club Secretary before he started his lecture, but he preferred to explain it in his talk. I hope you are all aware mobile phones work entirely by numerous repeaters by Radio , so if you use the internet with a tablet it will NOT need BT ancient phone lines. However though you might think 5 G is marvellous already, its speed online it not good as some fibre. My BT fibre was 19 Mps for a very short while but after a few crashes by their hub probably because of the decrepit lines here cannot cope with faster speeds, it is now only just over 14 Mps. When I complained to BT they claimed they can now only guarantee up 10 Mps. Have you noticed in their current TV ad they now only promise up to 17 Mps.

Since your tablet is not connected to the phone lines it is irrelevant what state the lines are as like mobiles the signals are using Radio all the way. You would be amused at the trouble they go to use the same channel for several mobiles to share a fraction of a second at a time. But he said beware of being disconnected for a while if you do not stay still so it cannot find you!

Actually it was radio amateurs who first developed using repeaters by Radio. In fact due to being 82 I use the free http://www.echolink.org/ using hundreds of repeaters with this PC instead of risking erecting huge antennas.

It would still be limited by the first cable connected to the repeaters. Follow the repeaters to its source and you will still find the source connected to a cable.

 

[Sionet]

It is a great pity avid users of mobiles do not take the trouble to pass even the first stage of the Transmitting Licence like me as M3YXH. Unlike a mobile we can talk to each other for free as long as we like once say a little handheld is bought, costing a lot less than fancy smart phones. If you do not like the idea of others hearing your conversations using a local repeater and you are not too far away from each other use a simplex channel seldom monitored by anyone. Also of course you only need a PC to talk to other HAMS anywhere in the world using Echolink.

 

[psionandy]

Ok... Sell it to me...
What benefit would I get as an avid mobile user in passing the first stage of the transmission licence?

I can already talk free to anyone I wish to... Over some computer network or another, so that doesn't offer me a lot?

So apart from it being hobby (like stamp collecting or tropical fish) what other benefits would we get from it?

 

[mikedt]

It is a great pity avid users of mobiles do not take the trouble to pass even the first stage of the Transmitting Licence like me as M3YXH. Unlike a mobile we can talk to each other for free as long as we like once say a little handheld is bought, costing a lot less than fancy smart phones.

Well I took the trouble to get a full UK ham license, class A as it was, including Morse code, which I passed in the 1980s...G1UKB then G0MEM. Can't and don't use it though, why?....

The People's Republic of China.

If you do not like the idea of others hearing your conversations using a local repeater and you are not too far away from each other use a simplex channel seldom monitored by anyone. Also of course you only need a PC to talk to other HAMS anywhere in the world using Echolink.

Well I only need a computer or phone to talk to anyone in the world, and they don't have to be licensed, but some of my friends are though. http://www.sbarc.co.uk/ South Bristol Amateur Radio Club.

Frankly using 2M and 70cm repeaters never interested me much anyway, and the idea of doing the same on the internet interests me even less. I was always on HF(short wave). And in fact the last time I was on the air was two years ago from Lundy Island, working a station in Chengdu, China on 20M ...think he was quite surprised when a G call-sign station went back to him in Mandarin.

BTW don't even have to have a ham license to do some DX things with radio.

Yours truly with just a cheap domestic TP-Link WiFi router, a couple of appropriate Yagis from TaoBao, and an Edwardian boot and shoe remover. 40km range WiFi.

 

[AZgl1500]

I got my first ham radio license in 1958 and used a military J brass key for CW, 'Morse code'....
I did not even own a microphone for over 20 years, I am hard of hearing, have severe Tinnitus and it is hard to understand the human voice.

But, I can tune my radio receiver to give me the heterodyne beat at a pitch that matches one of the tones that my ears can detect.... I managed over the course of those 20+ odd years to be able to "read sentences" instead of just a single character at a time dit-dah-dit for 'R'.....

I graduated to the Vibroplex keyer and then to the Digital Keyboard keyer for sending my CW out. I always just copied code in my head, never wrote anything down.

I still remember well, back in 1981 a friend of mine in Denver City, Texas wanted me to ride with him down to El Paso, Texas to go see the FCC examiner there and take his 5 wpm code test so that he could pass the Technician exam.... he passed.....

I was just sitting to the side of the room, waiting quietly for all of the code tests to be finished, never wrote anything down on paper. After the code tests were completed, the examiner asked me why I had not turned in a test sheet?

I said, oh, there wasn't any point in it for me, as they had never gotten over 5 words per minute yet....
I already have my General Class license, so why bother?

He replied back to me, "Uh, sir, that was the 20 wpm test we just ran. Do you know what it said?"

Me: "Yup, you talked about the dog that walked across the yard and barked at the owner"

FCC examiner. "Sir, come up here and fill in the exam papers, you just passed your Extra Class test

 

[Fox Mulder]

I'm a long-time ham as well.
It should be pointed out that ham radio was the first form of social media, long before that concept existed and certainly long before Mark Zuckerberg's father was a gleam in his grandfather's eye (or maybe even go back a generation).
The hobby is about communication in its many forms, beginning with RF and now also using the internet and related technologies. And yes you can talk far away with your phone but when the "grid" goes down due to disaster or whatever, it's us hams who are still able to provide communication. That's why you always see hams helping out at disaster sites.

 

[Hadron]

I hope you are not paying extra for a fibre connection and only getting 14 Mbps - I get that with a purely copper broadband connection. Though whatever your max download speed, it only helps if every other step inbetween is at least matching that.

I can't help wonder about a "boffin" who talks about "higher G" or "radio G" though: real technical people generally like to use the terminology correctly, and that, well, isn't.

 

[Sionet]

If someone is getting the use of free calls with a landline or mobile you are very lucky, so agreed there is not much point in studying for any of the 3 HAM transmitting licenses. But due to the massive interference on the Shortwave Bands it is a great challenge making a contact many miles away. That is why they have contests and send QSL confirmation postcards and Log books. Some also use Morse to get through much of the interference, it is actually proved it can be faster than texting. Using VHF such as a local repeater can be as clear as any phone but the distance is limited, on Short Waves contacts are made with Australia, the US and anywhere.

I use my Skype on my tablet to phone my pal quite often since the cost of the calls is a fraction of BT etc. costs. But BT block attempts to allow you to show your phone number on any CD, probably hoping it will deter some from answering the calls. So I phone my pal first only allowing his phone to ring twice then phone again and wait so he knows it is me no matter what the CD shows,

 

[Slug]

if you use the internet with a tablet it will NOT need BT ancient phone lines.

Erm, yes you will.... the network base stations don't exist in isolation; they have to be connected to the rest of the world somehow. Granted they're probably using fibre connections to the BT backbone, but the mobile network is not completely wireless.

However though you might think 5 G is marvellous already, its speed online it not good as some fibre.

So-called "5G" exists only in isolated testing situations right now, and certainly not in the UK.

My BT fibre was 19 Mps for a very short while but after a few crashes by their hub probably because of the decrepit lines here cannot cope with faster speeds, it is now only just over 14 Mps. When I complained to BT they claimed they can now only guarantee up 10 Mps.

The usual domestic BT fibre offering is FTTC (fibre to the cabinet). The fibre runs from the exchange to the green kerbside cabinet that terminates your line. From there to the faceplate into which the modem connects is still copper, and subject to the same issues as before e.g. poor cabling, faulty junctions, long lines etc.

Have you noticed in their current TV ad they now only promise up to 17 Mps.

Yup, and all other ISPs have to do likewise due to a recent Ofcom ruling. Apparently the words "dependant on line quality" weren't clear enough for your average punter, nor was the line test and estimated speed report provided during the ordering process.

 

[Sionet]

Can someone tell me in I give our unreliable Fibre Broadband in favour of a 4 G Tablet what would the equivalent internet speed be in Mps?

 

[mikedt]

Can someone tell me in I give our unreliable Fibre Broadband in favour of a 4 G Tablet what would the equivalent internet speed be in Mps?

This is 4G LTE with China Unicom.

Remember though compared to fiber broadband, 4G LTE might very well be limited, metered, capped, throttled, etc. all depending on your carrier and data plan, and could be extremely expensive if not careful about your data usage.