New board for interesting discussions?

[MoodyBlues]

All credit for this idea goes to @LV426. Could we please have a new board for spirited discussion?

If you're interested in its genesis, please start reading this thread at this post.

The gist of it is: P&CA is a shithole!

There, I said it.

There are members--and potential members--who would love to have rational, respectful, intelligent discourse on various topics, but won't go near P&CA because of its vile tone. Yes, I know, I get it, P&CA has its set rules...but it just doesn't work. I have loads I'd like to talk about, but you won't find me in P&CA...

In both real life and online I've seen how opposing opinions can be discussed in a respectful manner, no mud-slinging or name-calling involved. I've seen people change their stance on an issue after participating in respectful, but animated and informative discussion.

Please consider a new board, with a new, inviting name (Friendly Banter, perhaps?), its own clearly defined rules, tight moderation, and a zero-tolerance policy for infractions. The rules would make clear that the board is for discussing topics, not members, that you're free to voice your opinion and your reasons for disagreeing with others, but you cannot attack others because of their opposing viewpoint.

We want more members, right? And more, and better, discussions? Try this! It may help.

 

[Dannydet]

I'm in...

 

[Steven58]

See my post in your original query.

 

[Mackey69]

I'm in...

Ditto

 

[MoodyBlues]

See my post in your original query.

Thanks, I just did.

While I appreciate your take on it, I stand by my beliefs that: 1) a fresh, new, inviting board with clearly defined, and enforced, rules would be more attractive than P&CA, with its tarnished reputation, and, 2) people with opposing opinions can communicate respectfully.

Having run my own forum at one time (long story; it was temporary by design), and having been on the staff here, I feel very strongly that with consistent moderation, this can work.

Infractions could be handled with escalating punishments, starting with temporarily blocking access to the new board, all the way up to being permanently banned.

What is there to lose by giving this a try?

 

[Unforgiven]

The problem isn't members, or the rules. Certain topics bring out the worst in the Internet. We can call the forum whatever we want, rational discussions get overshadowed by the loudest, and usually most ill informed, participants. My opinion is we already have a place for those discussions in PCA, and it is up to the members to keep discussions rational. I'm happy to moderate the threads as I do read most everything in there. But, as has been said, once certain politicians or subjects come up, well...

 

[dontpanicbobby]

I must have missed something...
Let me check my links.

 

[MoodyBlues]

But, as has been said, once certain politicians or subjects come up, well...

You see, this is where I must disagree--because I've LIVED IT.

I could list many more examples but will just give a few. Erik, a friend I met through my brother, shared my brother's polar-opposite-of-mine political views. We're talking could not be more opposite. We became best friends. He had become disabled and was waiting for the VA to do various surgeries; he had to quit working, he lost his apartment. I let this big, hulking, proud, disabled Marine move in with me--no strings attached, no rent, nothing.

We would sit and have the most amazing conversations--about politics! Other things, too, but they're not relevant. Never once did either of us yell, lose our tempers, denigrate the other, or--most importantly--change our feelings about each other. We just understood how to argue a TOPIC without attacking the PERSON.

Next was a client at work. It was an abortion-related organization--as far from my beliefs as possible. I worked closely with them for years, getting to know our main contact quite well. It should go without saying that if I had attacked her and/or the organization, we would've lost a client! And vice versa. This was by far my biggest test of being able to converse civilly about a topic, without ever devolving into an insult-fest.

I don't agree that P&CA already serves this purpose, nor can I agree that civil discourse is impossible. I've lived it. And online, too. Over the years I've been on forums for everything from vegetarianism and animal rights, to politics and abortion, and they ran just fine. YES, they absolutely had jerks come along whose sole purpose was attacking those with opposing views. They were dealt with swiftly and consistently. Meanwhile, the rest of us carried on with meaningful discussions. It can be done.

 

[NightAngel79]

You see, this is where I must disagree--because I've LIVED IT.

I could list many more examples but will just give a few. Erik, a friend I met through my brother, shared my brother's polar-opposite-of-mine political views. We're talking could not be more opposite. We became best friends. He had become disabled and was waiting for the VA to do various surgeries; he had to quit working, he lost his apartment. I let this big, hulking, proud, disabled Marine move in with me--no strings attached, no rent, nothing.

We would sit and have the most amazing conversations--about politics! Other things, too, but they're not relevant. Never once did either of us yell, lose our tempers, denigrate the other, or--most importantly--change our feelings about each other. We just understood how to argue a TOPIC without attacking the PERSON.

Next was a client at work. It was an abortion-related organization--as far from my beliefs as possible. I worked closely with them for years, getting to know our main contact quite well. It should go without saying that if I had attacked her and/or the organization, we would've lost a client! And vice versa. This was by far my biggest test of being able to converse civilly about a topic, without ever devolving into an insult-fest.

I don't agree that P&CA already serves this purpose, nor can I agree that civil discourse is impossible. I've lived it. And online, too. Over the years I've been on forums for everything from vegetarianism and animal rights, to politics and abortion, and they ran just fine. YES, they absolutely had jerks come along whose sole purpose was attacking those with opposing views. They were dealt with swiftly and consistently. Meanwhile, the rest of us carried on with meaningful discussions. It can be done.

Not to disagree with you, because it is AWESOME you have had good experiences. However, this is the exception, definitely not the rule. If you have good membership, and dedicated even moderation, *maybe* you have periods where **** doesn't hit the fan. You literally can't find a place on the internet discussing politics that doesn't get vile, or is so heavily moderated as to have the members ready to revolt. I have seen entire sub reddits with hundreds of thousands of members get banned, or disappear. *Any* news type disqus site. It is awful.

And while I'm sure there is a scenario where it can be done, to a degree, I do not think it is worth it to try to do on an Android forum. I'm certainly not qualified to moderate a political forum.

Ultimately, PC&A is the place for this talk, but it should and needs to adhere to the same rules as the rest of the forum, IMO. I would even consider wiping that section out and starting from scratch. We could rename it or whatever and truly start fresh, with same rules as everywhere else. But honestly, that is what I meant in your other thread, user need to report *anything* out of line for staff to review, and things need to still be modded like the rest of the site *to a degree*. If stuff happens that is unfair, or something you or anyone doesn't agree with. PM me! I will absolutely look into it.

Anyway, this is just my off top of head thoughts. Take with a grain of salt.

 

[MoodyBlues]

I really appreciate your input, @NightAngel79.

I do want to clarify that not all of my experiences have been pleasant. My own brother, whose political views were the polar opposite of mine, could not discuss/debate without becoming ANGRY, LOUD, AGGRESSIVE. He called me every name in the book...

And I've been there online, too. Before deciding it wasn't worth it, I used to participate on forums and newsgroups that were just like you said. Vile.

But because I've seen in real life and online that it -is- possible to have civil discourse, I remain hopeful for AF.

I would even consider wiping that section out and starting from scratch. We could rename it or whatever and truly start fresh

+1 from me! Its name should reflect its intent--civil, courteous, respectful discussion. Perhaps about 'hot' topics. Or not. Topics that may cause strong disagreement. Or something.

On my favorite vegetarian/vegan board, we routinely get [immediately recognizable] trolls who are there for the sole purpose of causing trouble. In keeping with our compassionate views, they are gently and politely told that: we've heard it all, that's not what the board is for, they're welcome to stay if they have sincere questions/concerns they can articulate respectfully, and there are other places they can go that share their views. Almost no one gets banned--there's no need to: they just leave.

 

[NightAngel79]

+1 from me! Its name should reflect its intent--civil, courteous, respectful discussion. Perhaps about 'hot' topics. Or not. Topics that may cause strong disagreement. Or something..

I will bring this up in staff section. Problem is there will still be politic talk in any section, which will always inevitably cause discourse. Implementing this would be tricky, unless done right. Bunch of stuff going on, but will circle back around on this in a while for sure! PLEASE remind me after the next wave of phone launches and we will see what can be done.

 

[dontpanicbobby]

UFO Board.
Haven't seen one in a while.

 

[Milo Willamson]

Ya know been throughout a ton of chats, in my old days that I have past, and it really gets down to what others are, really enjoying within their own selves, even if the internet has some limintations per BBS service, (i.e. here) and like discord (i.e. A frozen chat of where you can log in and out any time, you feel like, all you do is basic login. They will email you what you really missed. But it varies on the topic too, on what it feels within the souls of other people, and in the prerequistations of their busy lives. They always know.) But it drills onto the thought of logging in from cellphones, tablets, comptuers, and watches to deal with what they left behind in conversations.

 

[dontpanicbobby]

They look new to me.

 

[maire5]

While I am not one to engage in spirited discourse, I would most likely enjoy reading what others have to say. Only other comment is that from what I have seen, it is virtually impossible to keep things "proper" so to speak. I have been a staff member on sites where moderators will lay a heavy hand on some members while letting others get very, very close to the line of TOS violations. While I tend to be even-handed myself, I don't think that I care so much to see disparate treatment. It has turned me off completely on some sites.

 

[MoodyBlues]

While I tend to be even-handed myself, I don't think that I care so much to see disparate treatment.

Same here. And I'm convinced that this can work, *if* moderating is done diligently, consistently regardless of which member posted, and with an enforced zero-tolerance policy for infractions.

I honestly don't see why giving this a fair try is even an issue.

Make an entrance page for first-time visitors--that they must acknowledge--explaining its rules and policies, and then let it happen. Show no favoritism in moderating, adhere to the zero-tolerance policy, and see what happens. *shrug*

 

[Milo Willamson]

Same here. And I'm convinced that this can work, *if* moderating is done diligently, consistently regardless of which member posted, and with an enforced zero-tolerance policy for infractions.

I honestly don't see why giving this a fair try is even an issue.

Make an entrance page for first-time visitors--that they must acknowledge--explaining its rules and policies, and then let it happen. Show no favoritism in moderating, adhere to the zero-tolerance policy, and see what happens. *shrug*

No kidding.