who has li-ion and who has li-polymer shipped stock?

[FLEMTP]

I notice many of you talk about how you have li-ion batteries when your phone arrives or was purchased. I was talking with a coworker today and he swore up and down the EVO shipped with a li-polymer battery and I swore it was a li-ion...

well i popped open the battery compartment and guess what?

Lithium Polymer battery!

So maybe thats the issue some of you are having?

Anyone else?

 

[horadin]

I notice many of you talk about how you have li-ion batteries when your phone arrives or was purchased. I was talking with a coworker today and he swore up and down the EVO shipped with a li-polymer battery and I swore it was a li-ion...

well i popped open the battery compartment and guess what?

Lithium Polymer battery!

So maybe thats the issue some of you are having?

Anyone else?

Really? Are you sure? Can you post a pic?

Mine clearly says Li-ion under the recycle symbol on the back.


What is your part number?

 

[Deleted User]

Li-ion and Li-polymer type batteries are very similar and shouldn't account for differences in battery life.

Just one uses a dry cell (polymer) and the other a gel.


Edit: it was noted that there are two types of batteries being shipped with the EVO:
http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-4g/99120-interesting-observation-batterys.html

 

[BetterMost]

I have the newer style battery says Li-Ion only.

 

[horadin]

Li-ion and Li-polymer type batteries are very similar and shouldn't account for differences in battery life.

Just one uses a dry cell (polymer) and the other a gel.


Edit: it was noted that there are two types of batteries being shipped with the EVO:
http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-4g/99120-interesting-observation-batterys.html

Are the actual batteries even different in that thread, it just looks like the cover was slightly changed.

And nothing in that thread suggests whether or not lipoly and liion are shipoping with these phones.
Both of the batteries posted in that thread are li-ion.

I want to see pics of an Evo Li-poly battery.....

 

[FLEMTP]

yeah as soon as I can i'll post pics..

 

[MisterEd]

Are the actual batteries even different in that thread, it just looks like the cover was slightly changed.

And nothing in that thread suggests whether or not lipoly and liion are shipoping with these phones.
Both of the batteries posted in that thread are li-ion.

I want to see pics of an Evo Li-poly battery.....

Yes, they even have different part numbers. I have one of each. The original TP2 batteries were all LiPo (which are the same size as the EVO battery). LiPo's can explode if overcharged. They aren't even allowed in stowed baggage on an airplane. Do a google search for LIPO EXPLOSION you'll see dozens of interesting vids. They are extensively used in radio control planes and heli's. Not sure which came first on the EVO, the LIPO or LION. My guess is the LIPO because the LION has a higher part number and the LIPO was used in the TP2 so they probably just put red cases on them and put them in the EVO. I'd like to know why they changed them.

 

[MisterEd]

Are the actual batteries even different in that thread, it just looks like the cover was slightly changed.

And nothing in that thread suggests whether or not lipoly and liion are shipoping with these phones.
Both of the batteries posted in that thread are li-ion.

I want to see pics of an Evo Li-poly battery.....

The TOP one clearly reads Lithium Polymer and the bottom reads LiIhium Ion (if you enlarge the image it's clear). Note the different part numbers as well. The LiPO part number is 2 digits different then the TP2 battery LIPO part number. The (black) LIPO is what HTC sells direct on their website as an EVO spare battery which is really the TP2 battery.

Flickr Photo Download: IMG_0054

This is the photo from the other thread, not mine.

 

[laredo7mm]

..LiPo's can explode if overcharged...

I don't think lithium battery explosions are limited to Li-poly. Li-ion batteries can also explode if not charged/discharged properly.

 

[MisterEd]

I don't think lithium battery explosions are limited to Li-poly. Li-ion batteries can also explode if not charged/discharged properly.

Not like LiPo's. They are made of a gel material unlike LIONs. They go up like 4th of July fireworks if overcharged. We blew up a few of our helicopter batteries and they were only 250ma. They swelled up to almost 2x their size so we took them out to a parking lot and hit them with a 12v car battery.

Google lipo explosion. Some neat stuff there.

 

[Deleted User]

edit: nevermind, i'm blind

 

[teky]

These are both, certainly, Lithium Polymer batteries. They are a subclass of Li-ion batteries, but Li-ion is rare (or impossible) in such a small form factor. They may be made by different manufacturers and one may be truly better than the other, but they are both LiPo technology.

 

[MisterEd]

Li-ion is rare (or impossible) in such a small form factor. They may be made by different manufacturers and one may be truly better than the other, but they are both LiPo technology.

95% of cell phone batteries are Lithium Ion as are camera batteries. Not sure how you can say they can't be made in "such a small form factor." They may be based on the same chemistry but the construction and material is different. LiPo is a gell LiOn is not. Some LiPo's come in little aluminum soft "bags" so you can literally form them to the space they need to be in, can't do that with LiOn. Never seen a LiOn used in a R/C helicopter, they are always LiPo's. Don't quite understand your statement.

How to Choose Between Lithium ION and Lithium Polymer Batteries - Ultralife Batteries | Engineers

 

[teky]

95% of cell phone batteries are Lithium Ion as are camera batteries. Not sure how you can say they can't be made in "such a small form factor." They may be based on the same chemistry but the construction and material is different. LiPo is a gell LiOn is not. Some LiPo's come in little aluminum soft "bags" so you can literally form them to the space they need to be in, can't do that with LiOn. Never seen a LiOn used in a R/C helicopter, they are always LiPo's. Don't quite understand your statement.

How to Choose Between Lithium ION and Lithium Polymer Batteries - Ultralife Batteries | Engineers

This is what I meant by form factor as the determining criteria...from the article you just posted:

Generally, battery cavity restrictions and cost structures built into the product or application determine whether or not Lithium ion or Lithium polymer batteries are recommended. If an application needs a very thin battery, typically less than 4 or 5mm, lithium polymer is recommended as it can be manufactured to such degrees of thinness that can

 

[teky]

95% of cell phone batteries are Lithium Ion as are camera batteries.

Do you have a link to support that number? I highly doubt that.

 

[laredo7mm]

95% of cell phone batteries are Lithium Ion as are camera batteries. Not sure how you can say they can't be made in "such a small form factor." They may be based on the same chemistry but the construction and material is different. LiPo is a gell LiOn is not. Some LiPo's come in little aluminum soft "bags" so you can literally form them to the space they need to be in, can't do that with LiOn. Never seen a LiOn used in a R/C helicopter, they are always LiPo's. Don't quite understand your statement.

How to Choose Between Lithium ION and Lithium Polymer Batteries - Ultralife Batteries | Engineers

I have three li-po "soft bag" batteries sitting right next to me. They are not soft and moldable. The gel is refering to the electrolite, they still have rigid stacked plates as their main structure.

 

[horadin]

Yes, they even have different part numbers. I have one of each. The original TP2 batteries were all LiPo (which are the same size as the EVO battery). LiPo's can explode if overcharged. They aren't even allowed in stowed baggage on an airplane. Do a google search for LIPO EXPLOSION you'll see dozens of interesting vids. They are extensively used in radio control planes and heli's. Not sure which came first on the EVO, the LIPO or LION. My guess is the LIPO because the LION has a higher part number and the LIPO was used in the TP2 so they probably just put red cases on them and put them in the EVO. I'd like to know why they changed them.

Hmmm. I looked right over that in the text on those batteries when I first read it. LIPO's kind of scare me after I had one of my helicopter batteries go up in flames in my apartment. Fortunately I had it in a fire bag while charging as well as a small bucket of sand next to the charger. Maybe these are safer somehow, but I guess that is what the circuitry in the phone is for, to monitor the charge rate and charge level.

I would really be interested in figuring out more about why there are two different batteries. I still have my skepticism that these are not different batteries, but just have a different wrap around them.

Who wants to be the brave soul to disassemble two of the differently labeled batteries?

At the same time I just don't know since the part numbers are different.

 

[MisterEd]

Do you have a link to support that number? I highly doubt that.

Jeezus, Sorry, it could be 93.6%. Obviously it's a bit of hyperbole but the vast majority of the ones I have seen are Lithium Ion. No, I haven't seen them all, but just look through all the ads for batteries. Google CANON battery, Nikon battery. Anything from the last few years are mainly LIon. Haven't come across a LIPO yet.

 

[MisterEd]

Hmmm. I looked right over that in the text on those batteries when I first read it. LIPO's kind of scare me after I had one of my helicopter batteries go up in flames in my apartment. Fortunately I had it in a fire bag while charging as well as a small bucket of sand next to the charger. Maybe these are safer somehow, but I guess that is what the circuitry in the phone is for, to monitor the charge rate and charge level.

I would really be interested in figuring out more about why there are two different batteries. I still have my skepticism that these are not different batteries, but just have a different wrap around them.

Who wants to be the brave soul to disassemble two of the differently labeled batteries?

At the same time I just don't know since the part numbers are different.

Lots of stuff has LIPO now, especially the cheap chinese imported electronic toys. They seem to be very malleable and can fit in odd shaped places. Even the iPhone uses a LIPO. Back when the 3G came out some guy burned his chest carrying an iPhone in his shirt pocket. Something caused the battery to flake out. It even made the national media back then. My 3GS once got so hot I had to pull it from my shirt pocket. Didn't burn but it was VERY uncomfortable for a few seconds and it was in a case. Apple said it was because of the case on it and it was in use for a long time.

 

[mrvirginia]

all i see is Li-ion on both of those batteries...
am i missing something? lol

 

[Deleted User]

all i see is Li-ion on both of those batteries...
am i missing something? lol

Read the fine print on the top battery in the picture and you'll see where it says lithium polymer.

 

[finndo77]

I notice many of you talk about how you have li-ion batteries when your phone arrives or was purchased. I was talking with a coworker today and he swore up and down the EVO shipped with a li-polymer battery and I swore it was a li-ion...

well i popped open the battery compartment and guess what?

Lithium Polymer battery!

So maybe thats the issue some of you are having?

Anyone else?

Mine specifically states "Rechargeable Lithium Ion Battery" Radio Shack - #1 Pre-order from store, picked up at 6:30am EDT June 4th 2010

 

[racinfanatik]

How to Choose Between Lithium ION and Lithium Polymer Batteries

A Look Back

Lithium ion batteries have been commercially available since the early 1990s, possessing the highest energy density of all rechargeable battery chemistries and finding their way into almost every portable electronic device to date. In response to potential safety issues related to potential abuse events or conditions, battery pack designers and engineers have added several lines of defense with regard to battery safety. These include active circuits to maintain the battery voltage within a specific voltage window as well as short circuit protection, external PTCs to control the thermal environment of the battery pack and mechanical devices internal to the cell that disconnect the cell and arrest operation when abuse conditions occur.

In the early to mid-1990s, in response to safety considerations, as well as market pressures to make thinner and thinner cells that might not need active protection circuits, battery scientists looked for design techniques to mitigate the effects of overcharging or short circuits which could potentially harm consumers and users with shards of metal from a breeched cell can in the event of an explosion from abuse. Even though the many lines of defense were in place, continued attention to safety problems were at the forefront of engineer