3rd party app option pushing away developers?

Kryten2k35 · Jul 12, 2010

Braaainz said:
Nothing is wrong with tethering... provided it doesn't go against your signed contract with your service provider.

For example, according to Sprint's Terms of Service (TOS), you will not tether or connect your phone to other devices for the purpose of providing internet, without paying for such a service from Sprint.

If you tether without paying for Sprint's add-on hotspot/Phone as modem plan, you are breaking your contract with Sprint. It could be argued that continuing to use Sprint's services after that constitutes theft (making you a thief).

This is similar to people who pay for basic cable, but then hack their cable to get premium channels without paying for them. Although I doubt any phone company would prosecute at this stage for tethering, cable companies have done exactly that regarding people stealing premium channel service.

After hanging around this forum, I have really been shocked at the number of people who willingly break their word/signed contracts over rather small/moderate fees.

Totally off the subject, but I think such attitudes represent a serious and ominous trend. When people easily disregard the Social Contract, thinking the benefits outweigh the risks... we begin to see the dissolution of society/civilization. We can see the effects on a large scale in fringe parts of our world, like the Somolian pirates. Granted, stealing data-streaming, identity theft, music/video piracy, etc. are a far less offense than kidnapping... but those things are happening on a large scale directly in mainstream society, not in the fringe areas.

I think you need a reality check. Instead of villifying people who tether their phones you should be thanking them for paving the way for the abolition of such ******ed and restrictive contracts.

By your definition, using the WiFi on any WiFi enabled phone would breach Sprint's contract, and that, is just plain stupid.

Why should Sprint be allowed to dictate which internet service you can use on your phone? How is that anything like hacking premium cable channels? I fail to see the comparison. Hacking is hacking, using the functionality of a phone is not hacking. Furthermore, when you're not in range of a computer or WAP you'll use your Sprint data package. Just like, hmm, everyone does (or at least, I assumed they did until this day) you still use your Sprint package, why do they have grounds to complain? They do not have any right to restrict you. At all. If their contract says that, it should be invalidated.

When I'm at home I use my WiFi and my internet service provider because WiFi is easier on my battery and because my ISP doesn't charge me

takeshi · Jul 12, 2010

Ayman250 said:
Take this analogy into consideration.
You have an option to build your store in 2 malls.
Iphone Mall: Secure and popular. Several security Gaurds, and cameras.
Adroid Mall: Popular, but almost no security.
You would choose the iphone.

A lot more plays into the decision than just security. The popularity of the two isn't even of the same magnitude. Not to mention the established momentum (and investment in tools) that a lot of devs have in the Apple Market.

Have you actually surveyed the devs or is this more expert armchair analysis and "common sense"?

Kryten2k35 said:
Anyway, the best apps are free.

Best is always highly subjective. Several of my best apps aren't free.

Kryten2k35 said:
Tethering is not illegal.

It is here until someone takes a carrier to court and wins.

Kryten2k35 · Jul 13, 2010

takeshi said:
It is here until someone takes a carrier to court and wins.

No. A T&C is not legally binding. Any idiot at a company can write a clause in a T&C, but that doesn't make it law.

And I presume you're in the United States because I haven't heard such ridiculousness here in the United Kingdom. I know most Americans are against government relguations (for some really daft reason) but if they pulled that here Ofcom (Independent regulator and competition authority for the UK communications industries) would have a field day.

Poldie · Jul 13, 2010

Braaainz said:
Totally off the subject, but I think such attitudes represent a serious and ominous trend. When people easily disregard the Social Contract, thinking the benefits outweigh the risks... we begin to see the dissolution of society/civilization. We can see the effects on a large scale in fringe parts of our world, like the Somolian pirates. Granted, stealing data-streaming, identity theft, music/video piracy, etc. are a far less offense than kidnapping... but those things are happening on a large scale directly in mainstream society, not in the fringe areas.

I didn't sign a social contract. It's not worth the paper it's written on.

But I'm thankful I don't live in Somolia.

A.Nonymous · Jul 13, 2010

Tre Lawrence said:
Dunno... if there is an app that gives me value, I would buy it. I do like free though, but I put premium on specific utility of the app.

Agreed. I want apps that are high quality and actually do what I want them to do in a utilitarian manner. I'm willing to pay for that.

Kryten2k35 said:
Anyway, the best apps are free. I'll always maintain that. People hardly ever want to pay

Super Noob · Jul 13, 2010

Braaainz said:
More and more, my cynicism regarding humanity increases.

Braaainz said:
Totally off the subject, but I think such attitudes represent a serious and ominous trend. When people easily disregard the Social Contract, thinking the benefits outweigh the risks... we begin to see the dissolution of society/civilization. We can see the effects on a large scale in fringe parts of our world, like the Somolian pirates. Granted, stealing data-streaming, identity theft, music/video piracy, etc. are a far less offense than kidnapping... but those things are happening on a large scale directly in mainstream society, not in the fringe areas.

Seriously? You feel this way because of piracy? Not that I condone piracy, but I'm on a few political and current-event forums. Considering some of threads today have to do with a mom who had sex with her long-lost 14 year old son, racism, and other heavy news articles, piracy is no where on the top of my list of major problems with society.

grainysand · Jul 14, 2010

Super Noob said:
Seriously? You feel this way because of piracy? Not that I condone piracy, but I'm on a few political and current-event forums. Considering some of threads today have to do with a mom who had sex with her long-lost 14 year old son, racism, and other heavy news articles, piracy is no where on the top of my list of major problems with society.

This. Dude seriously needs a reality check and a perspective. If you think piracy is anywhere near one of the most serious problems of all time, you've got to be ridiculously sheltered.

Poldie · Jul 14, 2010

A.Nonymous said:
I can't speak for the UK, but here contracts and the terms of contracts are legally binding. If you don't like the terms of the contract, you can simply not sign it. So, if Sprint or any other company puts in the contract that you can't tether and you tether they can legally terminate your service and you have no recourse. You signed the contract. Contracts are the basis of business here and if you break them with out mutual consent, there are always penalties.

Not all contracts qualify for this protection. For example, my contract might say I can't work for a rival company for 2 years after I leave, but this is not valid. Not because I've already left the company, but because it's not lawful to tell someone that they are supposed to turn down a job. It's not possible for this to happen - it's none of their business. This is just simple example. You sign contracts because at the time it's in your interest, but at some later date it's not necessarily in your interest. If it sounds unfair then make sure that the contract you're asking people to sign isn't a piece of crap.

Kryten2k35 · Jul 14, 2010

A.Nonymous said:
Agreed. I want apps that are high quality and actually do what I want them to do in a utilitarian manner. I'm willing to pay for that.

Could not disagree more. I have several paid apps on my phone and am always happy to pay for quality. It was $15 for the MLB app. For me, that's worth it and I'll pay it.

I can't speak for the UK, but here contracts and the terms of contracts are legally binding. If you don't like the terms of the contract, you can simply not sign it. So, if Sprint or any other company puts in the contract that you can't tether and you tether they can legally terminate your service and you have no recourse. You signed the contract. Contracts are the basis of business here and if you break them with out mutual consent, there are always penalties.

Well, software without a trial get go get stood on. I'm not about to part with cash unless I know something is good.

But then take the GameBoid app. I'm perfectly happy saving the game without states. So the free version is just fine for me. I'm sure there are some apps worth paying for, but as I said earlier in the thread, until Google arrange for paypal on the marketplace I'm not interested in paying.

As for contracts. Yes, correct, the contract can be terminated if breached. But it's not LEGALLY BINDING. Someone said that tethering is illegal. No, it's not. A contract when written is not law. LAWMAKERS make laws. Not businesses (and thank god, or else we're be screwed left and right)

So back to what I originally said; tethering isn't illegal.

A.Nonymous · Jul 14, 2010

Poldie said:
Not all contracts qualify for this protection. For example, my contract might say I can't work for a rival company for 2 years after I leave, but this is not valid. Not because I've already left the company, but because it's not lawful to tell someone that they are supposed to turn down a job. It's not possible for this to happen - it's none of their business. This is just simple example. You sign contracts because at the time it's in your interest, but at some later date it's not necessarily in your interest. If it sounds unfair then make sure that the contract you're asking people to sign isn't a piece of crap.

Again, I can't speak for the UK, but here in the US judges don't take kindly to people who sign contracts because it's convenient for them at the time and then break said contract at a later date because it's convenient for them to do so. You can break just about any contract you want, but here at least you often have to pay through the nose to do so.

I too signed a non-compete clause at my company. Here in the States, some of those clauses are valid and some are not. It really depends on the individual state and the wording of the clause. I'm told in my state that they usually don't hold. There are other states where they do hold. So yes, in some cases they can legally bar you from working for a competitor.

Kryten2k35 said:
As for contracts. Yes, correct, the contract can be terminated if breached. But it's not LEGALLY BINDING. Someone said that tethering is illegal. No, it's not. A contract when written is not law. LAWMAKERS make laws. Not businesses (and thank god, or else we're be screwed left and right)

So back to what I originally said; tethering isn't illegal.

Agreed, but we're splitting hairs here. It's not illegal as it doesn't violate any criminal code and you're not going to get tossed in jail for tethering. It does qualify as illicit though as it is specifically forbidden in some contracts. If you tether and it violates your contract, your carrier can terminate your contract and you have no recourse.

Super Noob · Jul 14, 2010

I NEVER signed a contract that even mentioned tethering. I started with a cheap phone, don't remember which, then the Razor, then the Instinct, then the Moment, and now Evo. I just kept on extending my contract, so I don't even think tethering was even possible many years ago when I started with Sprint.

opticalshadow · Jul 14, 2010

well i have been teahtering on my tmo plan, which is a no contract and i dont pay any more for it, i didnt have to upgrade plans to do it, it just uses my data plan (which is unlimited) no one has bothered to say anythign for me m y bill hasnt been adjusted and i dont even see anywhere in my current terms of service that it says i need to do anythign special, granted i only use this when my net goes down and thats rare.

as far as pircy in apps? i agree, make a decent app people will pay, as a pc gamer i can say piracy hits large in the pc gaming world, but enough money comes in where its not as significant as they claim it is. and its still wrong, but i agree its not near the top of the most serious crime in the universe list. piracy however is wrong, any way you justify it doesnt make it right. no matter how much sense you could make it sound right, the law says its wrong, so it is, and until it changes it will be.

my personal feelings on it is if you plan on using an application, why not support the dev who made it. and as long as i get my 24hr trial ill buy apps, but i dont even buy my pc games without trying it first, im am a big try before i buy, cause it adds up and you dont get much for trade ins.

Demache · Jul 14, 2010

opticalshadow said:
as far as pircy in apps? i agree, make a decent app people will pay, as a pc gamer i can say piracy hits large in the pc gaming world, but enough money comes in where its not as significant as they claim it is. and its still wrong, but i agree its not near the top of the most serious crime in the universe list. piracy however is wrong, any way you justify it doesnt make it right. no matter how much sense you could make it sound right, the law says its wrong, so it is, and until it changes it will be.

You can't mention PC Gaming without mentioning Steam. The prices for games they have on there are ridiculous (in a good way). If you would honestly say games on Steam are overpriced, you are just fooling yourself. And because of that, people don't tend to pirate VALVe games at least, since they are so incredibly cheap.

thepinkc · Jul 14, 2010

I don't download apps unless they are free or I pay for them. The only app I sideloaded was Calorie Counter after they took off a feature I liked. I found the .apk for it online and have saved it for forever and forever in 3 places.

Piracy of software doesn't have much to do with real piracy, but I do think developers should be paid for their work, which is why I make a habit to donate to developers of apps I like on a regular basis. I probably get "she's stingy" thoughts from developers because I only send a dollar or two, but I figure that other people are doing it to, so why send $5?

Kryten2k35 · Jul 15, 2010

Demache said:
You can't mention PC Gaming without mentioning Steam. The prices for games they have on there are ridiculous (in a good way). If you would honestly say games on Steam are overpriced, you are just fooling yourself. And because of that, people don't tend to pirate VALVe games at least, since they are so incredibly cheap.

You have to be kidding, right?

Sure, when Steam have sales they're mega cheap. But otherwise they're OVERPRICED majorly.

To the point where it's cheaper to buy games from brick and mortar stalls.

Take this. I was browsing a while back and saw Dawn of War II in the shops for

kokiangel · Jul 15, 2010

It seems to me that the option for 3rd [arty apps is pushing away developers. I feel this way because, it allows for easy installation of paid apps for free. Because all you have to do is find file hosting site on your phone, and download and install the app

And then there are sites such as MobiHand that sell apps. I bought some from there before they hit the Android Market and they had to be installed as third party apps. All legal and above board. Did not hurt the dev at all. There is a legitimate reason for being able to install that way.

3rd party app option pushing away developers?

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