Liberals are...smarter!

zep said:

It's not the sole reason for you being a believer (or a person of faith), but the fact that is it one of the reasons logically follows.

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I was simply bringing it up as one of my personal reasons that the existence of God
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makes more sense than being an Athiest. As childish as that sounds to such a developed mind as yours, it makes sense to me.
Personal reasons for the existence of God and trust in him/her/it = faith. hth.

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That's a complete mis-quote. You would do well to quote my whole sentence, rather than cutting a major part of it out. I didnt say it was 'one of my personal reasons IN the existance of God' I said it's one of my personal reasons why God's existance makes more sense than Athiesm.

WAdude said:

Are you stupid? Or are you just dumb? There is a diffrence between believing in God, and buying beachfront in Arizona. I have proof that, like common sense proof, there are no beachfronts in Arizona. On the other hand, there is no proof of God, neither is there proof against him.

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I'd say the hypocrisy of needing proof to believe some things, while needing none to believe in others is the truly stupid thing here.

germ.e83 said:

I said it's one of my personal reasons why God's existance makes more sense than Athiesm.

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Atheism isn't a religion or a belief system and isn't capitalized.

Rota said:

I'd say the hypocrisy of needing proof to believe some things, while needing none to believe in others is the truly stupid thing here.

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The thing is we have NO proof against God, I have proof against there being a beachfront in Arizona. Its called a map. The only statement you can make up against God is, "We have no evidential scientifical proof of such a deity, thus there is no deity". And thats not proof, thats simply a satement. How is it hypocrisy? If we have nothing to prove him wrong.

Rota said:

Atheism isn't a religion or a belief system and isn't capitalized.

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Then why did they let atheists put a letter on the Christmas tree in the White House?

WAdude said:

The thing is we have NO proof against God, I have proof against there being a beachfront in Arizona. Its called a map. The only statement you can make up against God is, "We have no evidential scientifical proof of such a deity, thus there is no deity". And thats not proof, thats simply a satement. How is it hypocrisy? If we have nothing to prove him wrong.

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No scientist would ever say for a definite fact that there is no deity, but the evidence overwhelmingly does point towards that conclusion. If you could prove to me that a god exists, I would believe in it. It's as simple as that. It's called being open-minded. You're clearly moving towards the commonly used "Well you can't prove he's NOT there!" argument that every Christian tends to go to. What you're leading to is another common logical fallacy, which is trying to prove a universal negative. In order to prove that a god does not exist, you would have to have know everything about the universe, or essentially be omnipotent. Since no one is omnipotent, you simply cannot prove that there is not a god the same way you cannot prove that there aren't invisible pink flying elephants.

WAdude said:

Then why did they let atheists put up a Christmas tree in the White House, saying that it was their religious rights?

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Do you have nay kind of source for this? Because I have no idea what you're talking about. If you're going to go into religious rights, the first amendment guarantees all of us here in the US freedom of (or from) religion. Contrary to what many religious people believe, atheists do not have any doctrine or rules dictating what they can and cannot do. An atheist can go to your churches, celebrate Christmas, or put up a Christmas tree at the White House without believing in your god or having a religious meaning behind Christmas. Furthermore, many Christmas traditions we celebrate today actually pre-date Christianity and are derived from Pagan religions.


Thanks for at least spelling atheist right.

Rota said:

I'd say the hypocrisy of needing proof to believe some things, while needing none to believe in others is the truly stupid thing here.



Atheism isn't a religion or a belief system and isn't capitalized.

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I wasnt purposely capitalizing 'athiesm' to try to make a point, but thanks for pointing out my error.

How is athiesm not a belief system though? It's the belief that God does not exist.

Rota said:

If you're going to move from one argument out of ignorance to another, how about this one:

What made the Christian god?

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Really? Im the one moving from one argument of ignorance to another, your the one that said, "I'd say the hypocrisy of needing proof to believe some things, while needing none to believe in others is the truly stupid thing here." Now you move from an argument about hypocrasy, to one about, "No scientist would ever say for a definite fact that there is no deity, but the evidence overwhelmingly does point towards that conclusion." Thats nice. Ive said that a thousand times.

Rota said:

No scientist would ever say for a definite fact that there is no deity, but the evidence overwhelmingly does point towards that conclusion. If you could prove to me that a god exists, I would believe in it. It's as simple as that. It's called being open-minded. You're clearly moving towards the commonly used "Well you can't prove he's NOT there!" argument that every Christian tends to go to. What you're leading to is another common logical fallacy, which is trying to prove a universal negative. In order to prove that a god does not exist, you would have to have know everything about the universe, or essentially be omnipotent. Since no one is omnipotent, you simply cannot prove that there is not a god the same way you cannot prove that there aren't invisible pink flying elephants.



Do you have nay kind of source for this? Because I have no idea what you're talking about. If you're going to go into religious rights, the first amendment guarantees all of us here in the US freedom of (or from) religion. Contrary to what many religious people believe, atheists do not have any doctrine or rules dictating what they can and cannot do. An atheist can go to your churches, celebrate Christmas, or put up a Christmas tree at the White House without believing in your god or having a religious meaning behind Christmas. Furthermore, many Christmas traditions we celebrate today actually pre-date Christianity and are derived from Pagan religions.


Thanks for at least spelling atheist right.

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And I meant the letter that this one atheist group put up on the Christmas tree on the whitehouse, they said they have religious rights too. You just contradicted that statement with, "Atheism isn't a religion or a belief system and isn't capitalized".

Atheism, by definition, is not a religion.

religion |rɪˈlɪdʒ(&#601n|
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods : ideas about the relationship between science and religion.
• details of belief as taught or discussed : when the school first opened they taught only religion, Italian, and mathematics.
• a particular system of faith and worship : the world's great religions.
• a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance : consumerism is the new religion.

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atheism |ˈeɪθɪɪz(&#601m|
noun
the theory or belief that God does not

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hakr100 said:

So, what about the Easter Bunny? There's no proof there isn't an Easter Bunny. Or that there is. Hmmmm.

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Your parents hide eggs in your backyard. I would probably shit my pants if eggs just popped out of nowhere all over my yard, and there is no evidence of anything or anyone putting them there.

hakr100 said:

So, what about the Easter Bunny? There's no proof there isn't an Easter Bunny. Or that there is. Hmmmm.

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Or Bertrand Russell's orbiting teapot ;D

WAdude said:

Your parents hide eggs in your backyard. I would probably shit my pants if eggs just popped out of nowhere all over my yard, and there is no evidence of anything or anyone putting them there.

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Likewise, there is no evidence that a god put us here

Jammy said:

Likewise, there is no evidence that a god put us here

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Neither is there evidence of God not putting us here.

WAdude said:

Neither is there evidence of God not putting us here.

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And do you have evidence that the Easter Bunny does not exist?

Jammy said:

And do you have evidence that the Easter Bunny does not exist?

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I saw my parents putting out easter bunny eggs in the yard. That might not be scientific evidence, but its "commone sense" evidence.

germ.e83 said:

I wasnt purposely capitalizing 'athiesm' to try to make a point, but thanks for pointing out my error.

How is athiesm not a belief system though? It's the belief that God does not exist.

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Atheism is a lack of belief in any gods, deities, or religion, not just the Christian god. There is no doctrine, no rules, they don't really band together on anything, they just live their lives without religion.

WAdude said:

Really? Im the one moving from one argument of ignorance to another, your the one that said, "I'd say the hypocrisy of needing proof to believe some things, while needing none to believe in others is the truly stupid thing here." Now you move from an argument about hypocrasy, to one about, "No scientist would ever say for a definite fact that there is no deity, but the evidence overwhelmingly does point towards that conclusion." Thats nice. Ive said that a thousand times.

And I meant the letter that this one atheist group put up on the Christmas tree on the whitehouse, they said they have religious rights too. You just contradicted that statement with, "Atheism isn't a religion or a belief system and isn't capitalized".

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You've already stated that you believe in a god without any evidence whatsoever. I lack a belief in any deity because the evidence that there is not a god heavily outweighs any evidence (i.e. none) that there is a god. I have also stated that if there could be any empirical, peer-reviewed, proven scientific evidence that a god did exist, I would believe in it. I don't feel this is out of the ordinary or illogical at all. If I told you I had a million dollars, you would say "prove it!", and I would show you my bank statement. If I instead said "you need to have faith that I have the money", you would think I was a moron and not believe me, because I am making an irrational claim. I don't see why we shouldn't hold everything to this standard.

Furthermore, freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. Although there is supposed to be separation of church and state, it is clear that this country does favor the Christian religion, since the majority of people who live here are Christian. I'm not offended by a Christmas tree at the White House whatsoever because I don't see Christmas as a religious holiday. Just look up the history of Christmas and you'll see it's basically a mash-up of traditions from many cultures, whether they were religious or not.

hakr100 said:

That sort of "logic" could support any posit or conclusion, such as: we were
"created" by aliens from another solar system. Can't prove it, can't disprove it...so it must be true if you have "faith."

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Exactly. The teapot, the aliens, and the invisible elephants are all great examples of this logical fallacy.

EDIT: Wow this thread moves fast.

hakr100 said:

That sort of "logic" could support any posit or conclusion, such as: we were
"created" by aliens from another solar system. Can't prove it, can't disprove it...so it must be true if you have "faith."

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And your sort of logic has no meaning, no point, thus every movement and everything you do is pointless, because in the end, YOU HAVE NO POINT. Am I right?

And the greatest thing is, that scientists always look out for life beyond ours, but never for a god, they always say "life beyond our world is a possibility" never " a deity beyond our world is a possibilty".

Id rather have a point in life. Thats serving my God.

It kind of annoys me when people say "Liberals are smarter than conservatives," or "Conservatives have brains and Liberals are dumb." Being conservative, liberal, or anything is just a set of beliefs. That's really it. There is no smarter side, it's all based on your opinion and opinion alone. No one is better than the other, and your values don't determine how smart you are.

“How have we convinced ourselves that in the moral sphere that there is no such thing as moral expertise, or moral talent, or moral genius? How have we convinced ourselves that every opinion has to count? Or that every culture has a point of view on these subjects worth considering. Does that Taliban have a point of view on physics that is worth considering? How is their ignorance any less obvious on the subject of human well being?”

-Sam Harris

WAdude said:

And your sort of logic has no meaning, no point, thus every movement and everything you do is pointless, because in the end, YOU HAVE NO POINT. Am I right?

And the greatest thing is, that scientists always look out for life beyond ours, but never for a god, they always say "life beyond our world is a possibility" never " a deity beyond our world is a possibilty".

Id rather have a point in life. Thats serving my God.

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Atheism isn't nihilism. No one is saying you can't live your life by your god's rules, but nobody else has to have your god to have a fulfilling life.

Could you answer me something though? Why is it that you believe in the Christian god rather than Zeus, Odin, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Rota said:

Atheism isn't nihilism. No one is saying you can't live your life by your god's rules, but nobody else has to have your god to have a fulfilling life.

Could you answer me something though? Why is it that you believe in the Christian god rather than Zeus, Odin, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

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Because I was born a Christian, and always will be. Honestly, why are you an atheist, because you decided to be a little rebel, you thought it was cool, wanted to be diffrent, smartass, you became one of those people who only accept science as the only answer, and your god is your ego? Really, do you have a point in life, tell me, whats the point of life after you die?

And why is it that atheists tend to like to attack the Christian faith, why dont you go to Afghanistan and tell them there is no Allah?

hakr100 said:

Well, that's a cross you have to bear. So long as you don't try to press your religious beliefs on me, I don't give a damn what you believe. And no, I don't mean you personally or any sort of open discussion about religion.

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Ive said that a lot. Go back and read my posts.