Accessories I recommend this car charger

can someone just tell me what the hell to buy? there is so much to read here.
lol i'm sorry if i am out of line

like: what car charger + what usb cable

The confusion here was caused by the OP. The pic and model number quoted as selling for $9.39 on Amazon is not the same as the model he links to a few posts later to illustrate the 2 x 1Amp claim.

The $9.39 Scosche model # USB12V2 the OP purchased does not claim to support 2 x 1amp output. That's this one:



The Scosche model # USB12V2A does claim to support 2 x 1Amp output. I have seen it for sale at Tiger Electronics for $9.99 and at Buy.com for $14.99 That's this one:


I hope this helps.

@twister6,
Awesome reply, thanks for the help! Btw those cables are absurdly cheap.... Normally I'd worry about quality, but since you seem to know what you're taking about I'm just gonna buy about ten of them and not even have to worry if one or two crap out on me lol. Thanks again.

@jazzmat,
Thanks for clarifying for everyone, good stuff

can someone link us to what charger and cable to get!?

+1 I wanna know links too.

Charger: Amazon.com: Griffin Technology PowerJolt 2.1 amp Power Charger for iPad, iPhone and iPod (Black): Electronics

or iPad, iPhone & iPod Accessories Power reVIVE II - Dual USB Car Charger for iPad


Cables:

3ft - For only $0.97 each when QTY 50+ purchased - USB 2.0 A Male to Micro 5pin Male 28/24AWG Cable w/ Ferrite Core - (Gold Plated) - 3ft | USB 2.0 Cables - Micro-B Type

or 6ft - For only $1.16 each when QTY 50+ purchased - USB 2.0 A Male to Micro 5pin Male 28/24AWG Cable w/ Ferrite Core - (Gold Plated) - 6ft | USB 2.0 Cables - Micro-B Type

or 10ft - For only $1.34 each when QTY 50+ purchased - USB 2.0 A Male to Micro 5pin Male 28/24AWG Cable w/ Ferrite Core - (Gold Plated) - 10ft | USB 2.0 Cables - Micro-B Type

Well, after reading this thread at least three or four times trying to understand amps, volts, and AWG numbers -- while sifting through the opinions of those with more and less knowledge on the subject than I -- I decided to stop torturing myself over something that is ultimately not a life-changing decision.

I need a two USB port charger for the two cell phones in our family, so I ordered the Scosche USB12V2A from an ebay seller for $14.99, a 6ft USB 2.0 to USB micro cable for my X, and a 6ft USB2.0 to USB mini cable for my daughter's Droid Eris. I tried to order the cables from Monoprice, but they are back-ordered on the USB mini cables until mid-Sept. I got free shipping on all three items, so my total cost was $15 for the charger, and $4 each for the two cables. I am very happy with my Garmin GPS with lifetime maps and traffic, so I don't expect to usee my X as a GPS in the car. So I think this set-up, with 1A x 2, will more than suffice to charge both phones, regardless of what load we place upon the charger by using them when plugged in.

Thanks to all who added info to this thread. I now know more than I probably ever wanted to about chargers. Thanks also to the OP, without whom I wouldn't have discovered the Scosche USB12V2A.

YEs that is right AWG = American wire guage, though somepeople call it ALL wire gauge (depending on what contintent you happen to be standing on)

And wire thickness is an indication of the ammount of current it can handle effectively without like loss. Recognize that Voltage, Current and Resistance are all inter-related, I'll stop there for keeping this simple.

Now, Think of Voltage as water pressure, Current as flow rate, and Resistance as well, resistance to flow. Imagine the battery is a bucket, and your cable is a water hose. You have a set water pressure, and you need to fill the bucket.

Obviously you will need a big hose to do it quickly, oh and BTW that bucket leaks.

Now, the 28ga wire is fine for small voltage (less than 20) and small current loads (less than 600ma) this is why your moto cable seems pretty thiick, some of the wires in it are thicker than the others. These are the power lines, for the +5V legs. and 24 guage handles much more current than 28 guage. (OK maybe it doesn't seem like that much, but percentages matter)

Now yes in theory you could use a really fat pipe, like 0000 cable (note once you get thick enough you go from wire to cable, so call your //// a cable next time) However do you really want to carry that much copper around. And there is what engineers call the law of diminishing returns.

Not to mention that the bucket in this case, has a strainer on the inlet that restricts the flow in to a certain level. (your phone will only allow so much current to the battery for safety reasons, this is a good thing). Therefore using 16ga wire wouldn't matter. You have to ballance the wire size to the application.

Hope this helps a bit, sorry if its a bit confusing. OH and to the Electrical Engineers out there, remember up at the beginning of this where I said, TO KEEP THIS SIMPLE I"LL STOP THERE. note I am not advocating using 0000 cable for a phone charger.

Anyone else notice that the Monoprice cables invert their pricing? From 1.5 to 6 ft, the regular cables cost less than the "w/ Ferrite core" ones. From 10 to 15 ft, the "w/ Ferrite core" cables suddenly become cheaper than the regular ones! LOL

---> http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10303 Scroll down to the micro USB ones to see what I mean.

I am under the impression that the ones w/ the Ferrite core are more desirable than the regular ones (guessing), so I'm not certain why it's like that. Either way it's not a big deal ... it's the difference of a few cents lol.

Can someone verify that I'm correct to assume the Ferrite core ones are the way to go? If you're feeling smart/generous I'd also be willing to read why it's better/worse.

Napalm, I think you lost everybody at "inter-related" comment Don't sweat it, I think between yours and mine technical posts people will make some sense out of it

Just as a long term test update, since my daily commute to work is over an hour each way and I use NAV/GPS and make a number of calls, results are very consistent. Using PowerJolt2 charger and 28/24AWG usb cable I get 20%-30% battery charge up every single time.

maquina said:

Have you tried using GPS and charging your DX to see if it actually charges? Not calling you a liar, just would like to know for sure before I order it. Thanks for all the info!

Click to expand...

I own (before I got the DX) the Scosche USB12V2 and used it this weekend with my DX on a 2 hour road trip. I used Navigation and had my bluetooth headset connect. I started out with a fully charged battery and at the end of my trip I was down to 60%!

Martimus said:

I honestly don't think a different charger will make a difference! When the GPS is active it does not look like the phone will charge. In my mind there is some logic that might explain this. The GPS heats up the phone pretty significantly. The effective life span of a battery is reduced by extreme heat. If the battery attempts to charge the phone during a period of high heat it might, over time, compromise the battery.

Click to expand...

My DX was extremely warm when I took it out of the mobile dock at the end of the trip. I would tend to agree with @Martimus. Of course the dock sits in the window where the bright sun warms it up. I am going on a trip this weekend and will try to keep my DX in the center console and see if that makes any difference.

kwest12 said:

Can someone verify that I'm correct to assume the Ferrite core ones are the way to go? If you're feeling smart/generous I'd also be willing to read why it's better/worse.

Click to expand...

They reduce electromagnetic and RF noise (think of your usb cable as a big long antenna). The downside may be reduced flexibility, depending on the placement of the beads.

If cost is about the same, I'd go with the ferrite cores.

buxleyp said:

They reduce electromagnetic and RF noise (think of your usb cable as a big long antenna). The downside may be reduced flexibility, depending on the placement of the beads.

If cost is about the same, I'd go with the ferrite cores.

Click to expand...

Man I love all the grey matter floating around this forum! Thanks for the info buxleyp.

twister6 said:

Napalm, I think you lost everybody at "inter-related" comment Don't sweat it, I think between yours and mine technical posts people will make some sense out of it

Just as a long term test update, since my daily commute to work is over an hour each way and I use NAV/GPS and make a number of calls, results are very consistent. Using PowerJolt2 charger and 28/24AWG usb cable I get 20%-30% battery charge up every single time.

Click to expand...

LOL, yeah I just didn't want to throw down my nerd/engineer card on a forum where I'm not all that known. I mean honestly who the smurf would care right?

OH and for the curious. V, voltage; I, current or amperage; R, resistance.

V = I*R. Don't read too much into it, but as resistance goes up, current must go down to make equivalent voltage. Battery needs voltage to charge, so that must be constant (in this case 5V), and well don't worry too much about the rest.

side note: I have the scoche unit, and i got a 10% increase (or more but I'd never know with this damn battery meter) using GPS on my 43 minute drive this morning. However I had to keep playing with the screen to keep the nav funtioning and it would drop out and I would have to restart it. (Google nav). Does anyone else have this problem. I turned the screen to always on and never hit the lock button. It would just drop out after 5 or so minutes. Real pain in the ass.

buxleyp said:

They reduce electromagnetic and RF noise (think of your usb cable as a big long antenna). The downside may be reduced flexibility, depending on the placement of the beads.

If cost is about the same, I'd go with the ferrite cores.

Click to expand...

huge +1. OH and that antenna will cause voltage ripples, and with that small a voltage its nice to keep it as smooth as possible. Ferrite is a good thing, once over 6ft. This will lead to a discussion on antenna design, and maybe someone should tell Apple.

EDIT: as pointed out before I don't type too good.

I use the car charger that I bought for my BB Storm. Works like a charm!

@Napalm: I'm sure you made a typo and meant to write V=I*R (Ohm's law)

Regarding Scosche unit charging up 10%, even if its rounded off, that is another indicator that charger port is not supplying more than 1A of current. Because with 2.1A PowerJolt2 you get twice that amount which roughly indicates faster charging.

Regarding NAV/GPS drops, very simple explanation. Happened to me last week when all of a sudden NAV app was shutting off every 3-4 minutes and I had to restart it. I also noticed right at the moment when NAV closed I also briefly lost satellite icon in the upper right corner. Searched this forum and found similar complains with a solution to go through all recently installed apps and find the one which causing it. There are a lot of "innocent" apps with "malicious" background activity. I removed a few games which I recently downloaded and problem went away for good. Just make a mental note when you first start seeing this problem and what has been installed ever since and remove it. And once you do that, remove and reinsert battery back. Doing this so called "hard reset" clears out memory for good.

twister6 said:

@Napalm: I'm sure you made a typo and meant to write V=I*R (Ohm's law)

Regarding Scosche unit charging up 10%, even if its rounded off, that is another indicator that charger port is not supplying more than 1A of current. Because with 2.1A PowerJolt2 you get twice that amount which roughly indicates faster charging.

Regarding NAV/GPS drops, very simple explanation. Happened to me last week when all of a sudden NAV app was shutting off every 3-4 minutes and I had to restart it. I also noticed right at the moment when NAV closed I also briefly lost satellite icon in the upper right corner. Searched this forum and found similar complains with a solution to go through all recently installed apps and find the one which causing it. There are a lot of "innocent" apps with "malicious" background activity. I removed a few games which I recently downloaded and problem went away for good. Just make a mental note when you first start seeing this problem and what has been installed ever since and remove it. And once you do that, remove and reinsert battery back. Doing this so called "hard reset" clears out memory for good.

Click to expand...

editied I don't type all that good sometimes and get into a hurry.

Meanwhile, My Nav issue mostly only when plugged in. I didn't lose gps signal during the event that I know of. But I'll keep that in mind next time.

Don't have a car charger yet, but I borrowed my mother's Captivate charger for a 3 hour road trip today. Had nav going and Pandora going the entire way, and the charger not only kept it from draining, but filled up the 20% i'd used before plugging it up. So the X can charge when using nav and such.

interesting side note on the Scoche charger: My Girlfriends HTC Hero would only show USB charging when pluged to it with the HTC supplied cable (I suspect there is only 1 type).

It doesn't show AC charging like the DX does. Found out on a 6 hour road trip this weekend.

OH and I ran GPS the whole way with weather updates and BT on the whole time and occasionally phone calls, no problems and even showed up with a showing 100% charge on the phone.

Also, hot battery cover even in the shade and the charger was occasionally powering mine and the GF's phone. Granted I don't think the HTC allows full draw (even with it plugged in by itself).

The charger seems to work perfectly fine with my phone. Not bad for 10 dollars shipped.

Got home from work today and found my Scosche USBC3 I ordered last week on my doorstep. Did some testing and here's what I found. My DX shows AC charging when plugged into either port. My girlfriend's Dinc stats USB charging. Tested the charger itself using my multimeter and verified that the data connections are not shorted. I tested this at the USB ports and opened the unit (comes apart rather easily) and tested the pins on the board as well. So the question is, why does the DX indicate AC charging, while the Dinc does not? It seems it can be a bit more complicated. The USB spec also refers to what they call "charging downstream port." Basically, when there is no data transmission, and it detects a voltage within a certain range (the values are a bit confusing as there is overlap; it would probably make more sense if I understood more of what happens with the USB connections), it goes into a charging mode where up to 1.5 A of current can be provided. In short, my previous assertion that a short has to exists between the data terminals goes out the window as there appears to be more than one way to get more than 500 mA out of a USB connection.

And without device specific testing (both phone and charger), there is no way to know for sure how much charge the phone is actually accepting. If the "AC charging" and "USB charging" status labels on the phones are an indication of if the phone is accepting more than 500 mA or not, then it would appear the DX is more flexible than the Dinc in this regard. However, if the status labels vary by phone, then its all a toss up and goes back to trial and error. This is frustrating.

I should also note that the original charger I tested from Scosche is the USB12VM and the HC12V. I retested the USB12VM without the modification and I'm happy to report the DX shows AC charging as the status. I didn't test the HC12V though, but I would hope its consistent with their other products.

Not sure if its possible, but it would be awesome if someone came up with an app that could detect the charging current. I'd guess it would be limited by hardware design and differences in design from one device to the next. The other option might be to build a testing rig out of a spare USB cable which I can place a multimeter in-line on the V+ wire. Maybe if I get bored one day....

If you put your multimeter inline with one of the power leads, you can read the amperage that the phone is using. I am not an electrical engineer, so I will explain how to do it as best as I can. Set up the charger so that it is ready to charge, except have an OPEN in the positive lead going from the charger to the phone. Put your multimeter on A (amps) and make sure that the leads are plugged into the appropriate receptacle on the multimeter (one should say it is for Amperage/AMPS/A...). Connect one multimeter lead to a positive wire from the charger side, connect your other lead to the power wire going to the phone, the multimeter basically becomes part of the circuit and completes it, it will read how many amps are going through it.


Doh: once I got to the end of you thread, I see you probably already know what I am talking about... Maybe it will help someone else out.

Just wanted to post and say thanks to all of you in this thread. Saved a lot of time and headaches from buying some random chargers/cords.

To any of the more electrically minded people here, I have what is ostensibly a 2A Scosche single port USB charger.

With NiMH batteries, "quick charging" them will shorten their lifespan and is generally considered a poor method to charge the batteries. I am assuming (you know what happens when you assume, right?) that "quick charging" is nothing more sophisticated than simply supplying a high current to the batteries.

Do lithium ion batteries also suffer from similar problems - and is 2A a high enough amperage that it may cause these issues? The higher powered chargers now are often around 2A because they are often targeted at the iPad, which requires that kind of amperage, so I am guessing there is no issue.

Just as a data point, if it hasn't been stated explicily, with the PowerJolt2 (iPad version) and the stock cable or the monorice 28/24AWG cable, I get AC status when charging.