California Prop 19, Legalize Marijuana? Vote Yes, or Vote No?

byteware · Oct 20, 2010

zauper said:
I'm not sure the composition has changed enough since Gonzales v Raich, but it may have.

2 of those who voted in favor of the government have since retired and been replaced.

Scalia can be swayed. It doesn't believe that the Commerce Clause gives Congress the right to regulate commerce inside a state.

I think it can be successfully argued that it is not necessary for the Federal Government to have this authority in order to execute their other powers.

I think it's very likely that it has shifted enough. They only need two votes to change.

Scalia's and Alito?

Bob Maxey · Oct 20, 2010

tommy_ed said:
So if they all have cons, and this particular issue has more pro's than cons compared to cigarettes, meth or crack (Not healthy but definitely less harmful) why should it be the only one that is illegal?

so you're saying chocolate is just as harmful as cigarettes? There are A LOT more harmful chemicals in cigarettes

if you think the only thing in cigarettes is tobacco you are naive

studies and analysis' are good and all, but as a firsthand user of both for many years, I can PROMISE you... alcohol will impair you much more.

Diet coke can give you cancer. Burnt toast can give you cancer. Should those be illegal?

No one has yet to give me a legitimate reason why it should remain illegal. It would be nice if there was a way to tell for sure if someone is driving impaired, but we have this same problem with prescription drugs (which are much more harmful to your body by the way). I'm sure it wouldn't be legal to smoke indoors, and smoking outdoors wouldnt really affect non-smokers.

I'd say health issues don't have anything to do with this discussion anyway. It's up to you whether you want to do it. Just like cigarettes, pills, and cheeseburgers.

You guys should do a little research into why it was made illegal in the first place. It's a great tale of crooked politics and racism. Then do some research on how much money we waste every year trying to control it. And also how much we could be making off of it.

I am not saying that chocolate is harmful; well, some ladies on the list might disagree. I am suggesting that not all chemicals -man made or otherwise- are harmful. If you look at the chemical contents of almost everything we eat, it is amazing just how complex things are.

I am also not saying everything is safe, either.

You asked for a reason why it should remain illegal, and you answered your question. It impairs people and apparently we can

mcatdtDROID · Oct 20, 2010

what's bad for the hive is bad for the bee

tommy_ed · Oct 20, 2010

Bob Maxey said:
You asked for a reason why it should remain illegal, and you answered your question. It impairs people and apparently we can

mcatdtDROID · Oct 20, 2010

tommy_ed said:
I don't see that as a legitimate reason. They can do a field sobriety test. If you fail, move on to a blood or urine test. If you can pass the sobriety test, then you should not be too impaired to drive.

One thing I think a lot of you arent realizing is how many people smoke marijuana right now. A lot. It's the easiest illegal substance to get your hands on. It's going to be available no matter what the government does.

probably the most ignorant statement ever made in this thread. should we also legalize 13 y.o.'s drinking and smoking since they do it anyways?

Let's legalize cousin marriages, even the ones that can't have kids, because all of West Virginia does it anyways.

lets legalize all mexican immigrants since they're coming over anyways.

It's clear you will partake in MJ no matter what the law says, make your choice and deal with the consequences of it. Problem is, you want your cake and to eat it too. Sometimes, the society is greater than the individual

So that being said, why not make it a little easier to control? People are already driving high. Making it legal isn't going to make that situation worse or better. But it can open the door to better ways of field testing for impairment. Let's not forget how many good workers have lost jobs or been kept from getting a job because they like to smoke occasionally. And people being incarcerated for it: 592,138 cannabis law offenses this year (source: FBI

jamor · Oct 20, 2010

SamsungVibrant said:
The problem with prop 19 is the way it is written. Appears to have been written poorly, with loop holes, and not enough emphasis on safety. It provides local law enforcement with no resources to assure people are not driving high.

I disagree with this. I think it's an out for people against prop 19.

Driving high is ALREADY illegal and yes you CAN get a DWAI/DUI for driving high. Even if it was LEGAL, they could test you, check your eyes, your tongue, and other factors that say whether you were high at the time. If that doesn't work they can do field sobriety and urine tests.

What about the people hopped up on loopy legal drugs like downers. All the bottle says is "don't drive machinery"..

Why are those drugs okay to drive on? Because the pharmaceutical companies have more power than God and they make billions. It's pretty messed up if you think about it.

What safety measures are there for drinking and driving? None. You can go to any bar, have 10 beers, and get into your car.

The "safety measures" are sorry excuses to block the law. There are no safety measures for any drugs including alcohol and prescriptions.

If you couldn't drive on prescription drugs pharmaceutical companies would be broke. That's why they get away with it. They got the power and it's all about the $$$.

Bob Maxey · Oct 20, 2010

mcatdtDROID said:
probably the most ignorant statement ever made in this thread. should we also legalize 13 y.o.'s drinking and smoking since they do it anyways?

Let's legalize cousin marriages, even the ones that can't have kids, because all of West Virginia does it anyways.

lets legalize all mexican immigrants since they're coming over anyways.

It's clear you will partake in MJ no matter what the law says, make your choice and deal with the consequences of it. Problem is, you want your cake and to eat it too. Sometimes, the society is greater than the individual

All that article 'proves' is less arrests when you legalize something..... duh!!!!

you know, if we just got rid of those pesky school zone speed limits, I could find a study that shows a decrease in speeding tickets. It's amazing how much traffic tickets in a school zone decreases during the summer times....

Thank goodness you seem like the type that doesn't vote.

I agree. Perhaps we should simply give up. Much easier to give up than fight.

Perhaps what we need to do is put users into forced and mandatory rehab and once they can stop using the drug, they go to jail for a few years. We put growers in jail for a few years and importers get a decade or so. We do this relentlessly, consistently, and we accept no excuses.

We do this for all drugs, not just MJ.

If the residents hate the vast increases in taxes required to build holding pens for the prisoners, perhaps they will repeal the law. Assuming that it passes, that is.

If parents use, we take their children. We uphold the federal law and we stop sending money to CA if they insist upon making it legal and ignoring the federal law.

We stop looking for reasons why people use and we simply follow a well known legal principal: Your Screwed and it Sucks To Be You.

The good thing is, once people see that we are serious about this, many will see that they stand a real chance of being jailed for years and some of the problems will disappear. There will always be users, so I am not suggesting this will solve the entire problem.

Either that or we simply make it legal. Then we make all of those things you mentioned legal, and eventually, we start asking why we are screwed.

But I live in Utah and perhaps it is their problem and not ours. Off with their heads, I say.

Sherriff Bob Maxey

tommy_ed · Oct 20, 2010

WOW when the hell did I say legalize it for minors?

I'm simply saying... why spend all of this money on a victimless crime we can't control anyway?

but once again you've blown my words out of proportion and twisted them to make your point. It's not "less arrests" that I was going after. It's the fact that people who would otherwise have clean records will have a criminal record for something that hurts no one, and that we're spending so much money arresting these people and keeping them incarcerated. Is it really worth it?

and to sheriff maxey:

I agree with doing this for all drugs, EXCEPT MJ. Because it doesnt hurt anyone.

[/quote]
But I live in Utah and perhaps it is their problem and not ours. Off with their heads, I say.[/quote]

yea, in utah people would rather cook meth anyways.. seems like you guys are doin a great job of keepin that under control! LOL

this is the problem.. just because you two don't do something you think no one else should be able to. Mcatdroid has probably never even tried it, seeing how he already went on and on about how he's never even tried a cigarette (not saying that's a bad thing) but honestly, why do you guys even care? Mcatdroid already stated his ONLY reason for opposing this new law was basically to piss off people who smoke.... WOW. Are you even invited to your family gatherings? I would say friends but your people skills tell me you probably don't have any.

Bob Maxey · Oct 20, 2010

tommy_ed said:
WOW when the hell did I say legalize it for minors?

I am not sure who said what, but it seems to me, if it was leagalized it would be readily available, and if that happens, minors will certainly have easier access.

Bob Maxey

Bob Maxey · Oct 20, 2010

tommy_ed said:
WOW when the hell did I say legalize it for minors?

yea, in WOW. Are you even invited to your family gatherings? I would say friends but your people skills tell me you probably don't have any.

I should think that by now, you would understand that personal attacks tend to undermine any points you are valiantly trying to make.

I must publically admitt to my rampant drug use. I have tried to hide it, but you will find out sooner than later. I am a drug user and I have sinned.

I use Caffeine, and Nictotine, and Alcohol.

I feel better now.

Bob Maxey

jamor · Oct 20, 2010

mcatdtDROID said:
lets legalize all mexican immigrants since they're coming over anyways.

We already do so you've validated his point.

tommy_ed · Oct 20, 2010

Bob Maxey said:
I am not sure who said what, but it seems to me, if it was leagalized it would be readily available, and if that happens, minors will certainly have easier access.

as a law enforcement officer, you should know that the opposite is true. Because marijuana is illegal, it is sold by unlicensed "dealers" - many times minors themselves. When they go to buy pot they don't need an ID. All they need is the cash. Any high school student can tell you that pot is easier to get than alcohol.

LickTheEnvelope · Oct 20, 2010

Bob Maxey said:
I am not sure who said what, but it seems to me, if it was leagalized it would be readily available, and if that happens, minors will certainly have easier access.

Bob Maxey

As I mentioned before I don't see how legalizing and controlling the distribution of MJ would make it easier for kids to access... ?

I can't think of a way to make it easier to get than it allready was when I was in school (ie. ask any of the 10-12 people I knew at anytime who sold it).

Difference (if legalized) being when someone buys it profits go to government and local producers instead of international gangs, which is where the money is flowing now.

tommy_ed · Oct 20, 2010

Bob Maxey said:
I should think that by now, you would understand that personal attacks tend to undermine any points you are valiantly trying to make.

I must publically admitt to my rampant drug use. I have tried to hide it, but you will find out sooner than later. I am a drug user and I have sinned.

I use Caffeine, and Nictotine, and Alcohol.

I feel better now.

Bob Maxey

I normally always refrain from person attacks when in a debate. Those comments however were directed towards Mcatdroid, not you. He constantly does the same to me, so it only seems fair that I retaliate. You should feel better, because there is nothing wrong with that. You should be able to do what you want to your own body, which is why I'm surprised you're opposing other people's rights to do the same.

Bob Maxey · Oct 20, 2010

jamor said:
We already do so you've validated his point.

An interesting comparison can be made between Califiornias illegal alien problem and marajuana. California supports sanctuary cities that ignore federal immigration laws, just like they want to make MJ legal which is also against federal law.

Bob Maxey

jamor · Oct 20, 2010

Bob Maxey said:
I am not sure who said what, but it seems to me, if it was leagalized it would be readily available, and if that happens, minors will certainly have easier access.

Bob Maxey

Kids have access to their parents liquor cabinet. That's a drug and arguably more dangerous than MJ. Alcoholism - a lot more addicting than MJ. Bad for your health. Bad for your liver. Makes you violent.

Kids have access to their parents prescriptions pills. That's far dangerous than both liquor and MJ combined.

Bob Maxey · Oct 20, 2010

LickTheEnvelope said:
As I mentioned before I don't see how legalizing and controlling the distribution of MJ would make it easier for kids to access... ?

I can't think of a way to make it easier to get than it allready was when I was in school (ie. ask any of the 10-12 people I knew at anytime who sold it).

Difference (if legalized) being when someone buys it profits go to government and local producers instead of international gangs, which is where the money is flowing now.

Well, it seems to me if MJ were legal, there would be increased supplies to meet the demand. Is this a fair and logical statement?

So, if there are hundreds of places to purchase the stuff, is it not logical to assume that children would find it easier to procure simply because it is readily available? It might be easy to find now, but it would be easier to find if legally available because there would be more places to find it.

Then, if it were legalized in California, would visitors bring it back with them? And if visitors brought it back with them, would that not make it easier for their kids to get?

Perhaps the fact that it is legal would entice non-users to try it.

Seems fair to me.

Bob Maxey

jamor · Oct 20, 2010

Bob Maxey said:
An interesting comparison can be made between Califiornias illegal alien problem and marajuana. California supports sanctuary cities that ignore federal immigration laws, just like they want to make MJ legal which is also against federal law.

Bob Maxey

Couldn't you argue that the entire nation supports immigration laws. I don't think we can blame California. It's not their fault they are on the border of Mexico.

There's a reason 10 million illegals get in each year and nobody cares or does anything about it.

LickTheEnvelope · Oct 20, 2010

Bob Maxey said:
Well, it seems to me if MJ were legal, there would be increased supplies to meet the demand. Is this a fair and logical statement?

So, if there are hundreds of places to purchase the stuff, is it not logical to assume that children would find it easier to procure simply because it is readily available? It might be easy to find now, but it would be easier to find if legally available because there would be more places to find it.

Then, if it were legalized in California, would visitors bring it back with them? And if visitors brought it back with them, would that not make it easier for their kids to get?

Perhaps the fact that it is legal would entice non-users to try it.

Seems fair to me.

Bob Maxey

Perhaps it has to do with ease of access?

Here in BC our liquor stores are government run (except for bars which can also sell, are just more expensive) and obtaining liquor under-age was damn hard unless you were stealing from parents, which most kids loathe doing fearing punishment from parents (and rightly so, that's how it should work) or if you had older siblings or friends with older siblings, and even then it was a chore to get liquor.

Same with tabacco.

With MJ though I could walk out the back of my highschool into a fenced area where all the smokers hung out and there would be 2-6 kids at any given time who sold MJ for a few local dealers who bought from a few regional dealers who I am quite sure bought from guys low down in various gangs.

From a practical stand point obtaining illegal drugs has always been far easier than obtaining legally, controlled drugs.

I'm not debating the issue itself. I personally have always been on the fence but leaned more towards legalizing for tax revenue to help healthcare.

I just have never been of the impression it would be 'easier' for kids to get drugs if legalized. They are ridiculously easy to get now regardless and at the end of the day it's the jobs of parents to give their kids the proper information on life choices.

Bob Maxey · Oct 20, 2010

jamor said:
Couldn't you argue that the entire nation supports immigration laws. I don't think we can blame California. It's not their fault they are on the border of Mexico.

There's a reason 10 million illegals get in each year and nobody cares or does anything about it.

Yes, illegals are a national issue, no argument. But could you please read with a tad more care? I was making a specific comparison between how California ignores MJ laws and how they (some, not all, to be fair) want to ignore federal drug laws.

I mentioned CA because that is the specific state we are discussing and I found the mentality interesting. They seem to want to ignore the law(s) of the land. I wonder what is next in the wunnerfull state of California? Could the move to collect MJ taxes be due to their terrible budget problems? Or perhaps their terrible immigrant problem; resources can stretch only so far.

Bob Maxey

mike1 · Oct 20, 2010

well some of you obviously have never smoked before and are just going by stereotypes but for the most part when you are high you can focus if you want to its just thats its more fun not too haha you could basically do anything that a normal everyday non high person can do except you will have more fun. i find that when i smoke i am more focused on some things than when i am not

Bob Maxey · Oct 20, 2010

mike1 said:
well some of you obviously have never smoked before and are just going by stereotypes but for the most part when you are high you can focus if you want to its just thats its more fun not too haha you could basically do anything that a normal everyday non high person can do except you will have more fun. i find that when i smoke i am more focused on some things than when i am not

So, airline pilots can get high and no problems? what about the doctor removing your daughters brain tumor. Come on... me thinks you are either being silly or perhaps you are, dare I say it, high?

Bob Maxey

JQwerty91 · Oct 20, 2010

How about legalize it in all of the states and tax it. From taxing it Amsterdam did it and they're doing fine (even though their people are a bit too wild at times)

mike1 · Oct 20, 2010

even obama smoked weed

mike1 · Oct 20, 2010

Bob Maxey said:
So, airline pilots can get high and no problems? what about the doctor removing your daughters brain tumor. Come on... me thinks you are either being silly or perhaps you are, dare I say it, high?

Bob Maxey

its legal to drink but you dont see doctors showing up to surgery drunk so what make you think they would go high? and there would obviously be limits and penalties if you were because it is fairly obvious if someone is high but they can function just like everyone else when their high and no i am not high right now i only smoke about once a month

California Prop 19, Legalize Marijuana? Vote Yes, or Vote No?

California Prop 19, Legalize Marijuana? Yes or No?

Yes

No

Maybe in the future, once the proposition is rewritten to close loopholes and insure safety.

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