Droid Tethering

Bobarazzi said:

yes...not really...but I was with Altell and was told everything would be the same (i asked about tethering), they said yes...now I'm p.o.'d.

And... it's a lesser crime, walking into a house and making yourself comfortable, than it is to break the lock.

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Tethering wasn't free with Alltel, either--they just didn't have a way to monitor it. As long as you remain on your original Alltel plan, your Alltel terms of service apply. Change your plan (to a Verizon handset/service) your TOS changes.

To clarify, Verizon charges $15 to tether a smartphone, $30 to tether a "dumbphone". BB, WinMobile & Droid are all considered smartphones.

And for those of you who say it doesn't violate their terms of service, read this jewel blatantly plagiarized from Verizon's website:

PDA/smartphone and BlackBerry

rockstar323 said:

To anyone interested or using free tethering.

It's not worth it if Verizon catches you. If Verizon catches you tethering illegally you are charged their pay as you go data charges at $1.99 a MB. I've heard multiple horror stories of people getting caught and having $5000+ in data charges. the sad thing is Verizon doesn't do much to help you on this unless you are a large, 300+ line, account. So if you get caught and charged, your account, with all lines on it are suspended until the bill is payed.

Even if you dont get caught Verizon doesnt like losing money. If their data usage is increasing so will their cost for a data package.

Dont steal it hurts all of us.

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This is a BS post! Tethering only becomes a problem if you are downloading gobs of data and are consistently exceeding 5GB a month. If you do the occasional tether, Verizon does not care.

I agree. If you're using it as your full time way to access, you've got the wrong tools. We've used PDA.net from time to time on vacation with the wife's netbook...so for a few days, there's some action, but we're also not sitting around blowing time either. It's usually to make some reservations, check some directions, check some forums or emails...Don't be a hog.

Hoping someone can help I am trying to install proxoid for 32bit windows 7. I download the drivers and i click on the exe files and they run but when i connect my phone nothing happens. I also ran the sdk 2.0 file as well. Anyone willing to help?

I use proxoid for my Mac. It works perfectly. Although i haven't figured out how to use anything besides http.

johnkzin said:

The fact that someone doesn't offer you something doesn't mean that it's "not stealing" if you take it anyway. That's kind of like the logic of:

* the door wasn't locked, so it's not stealing for me to take their TV without their permission
* the book isn't in print anymore, so it's not a copyright violation to copy it

Both of those statements are wrong.

Stealing, in this context, means "consuming a service that isn't free, and you aren't paying for". Tethering on Verizon isn't free. You aren't paying for it. Therefore, you're stealing it if you're doing it.

The fact that they don't give you the option to pay for it doesn't mean it's ok for you to "take it for free".

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thats not exactly true... with a phone whos open source its more of a gray area. The phone is not manufactured by verizon, nor is the software. If I made a program that would display on my computer what is shown on my phone this would not be illegal? yet I could still see web pages from my phone...

If I wrote my own program that sents date to my computer on my phone this also isnt illegal. Even if the data happens to be from a website. If you look into verizons terms and conditions there is nothign about tethering through your own means or sources. If you choose to not use verizons methods or software for tethering there is NOTHING that I have found in the contract or terms of service or conditions that says you cannot do this.

Verizon's "unlimited plan" has a 5gb cap on it. I paid for that bandwidth and whether or not it gets sent to my computer it takes up no more or less then it would if I browsed it on my computer.

There are two conditions that people may point out with verizons terms of service...

1) you cannot use your phone in a way that is considered illegal from its manufacturer.
Obviously it does not break this. Its an open source phone for gods sake. Maybe if it was using a verizon phone.... or somehting... but its not

2) you cannot use your data in a way that would harm verizons servers.
Like I said before, no more or less bandwidth is used then using on your phone. If you stay under the cap in verizon's "unlimited plan" your not going to be harming anything. Not to mention most people will only use tethering in very quick (and probably rare) circumstances.


People keep saying its illegal, but I have yet to find anything I signed, or listed on the site that says its illegal. Like i said, I paid for the 5gb's of bandwidth, im not stealing anything

ICANSEEYOU7687 said:

thats not exactly true... with a phone whos open source its more of a gray area.

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No, its not. The phone itself is irrelevant to the question. What's relevant is:

• do the terms of service, for the plan you are paying for, explicitly allow that activity? or
• is that activity reserved for a plan, or plan add-on, that you aren't paying for? or
• is that activity explicitly forbidden by your plan, or by the provider's general TOS?

Others have already posted the parts of the Verizon TOS that make it clear: tethering requires a service add-on that costs money ($15 or $30, dependent upon the handset).

Therefore, you are:
a) violating your TOS, and
b) effectively stealing $15-$30/mo. from Verizon.

There are two conditions that people may point out with verizons terms of service...

1) you cannot use your phone in a way that is considered illegal from its manufacturer.
Obviously it does not break this. Its an open source phone for gods sake. Maybe if it was using a verizon phone.... or somehting... but its not

2) you cannot use your data in a way that would harm verizons servers.
Like I said before, no more or less bandwidth is used then using on your phone. If you stay under the cap in verizon's "unlimited plan" your not going to be harming anything. Not to mention most people will only use tethering in very quick (and probably rare) circumstances.

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You forgot:

3) you cannot use your phone in a manner that is inconsistent with the plan agreement, and terms of service, you agreed to with Verizon.

That's the one that you're violating.

rockstar323 said:

Even if you dont get caught Verizon doesnt like losing money. If their data usage is increasing so will their cost for a data package.

Dont steal it hurts all of us.

Click to expand...

Haha.. thanks for making me spit coffee out of my nose..

Is it against the TOS, yes..

Here's two packets of data

0111011001100101011100100110100101111010011011110110111000100000011100100110100101110000011100110010000001111001011011110111010100100000011011110110011001100110

0111011001100101011100100110100101111010011011110110111000100000011100100110100101110000011100110010000001111001011011110111010100100000011011110110011001100110

now... which one came from my phone, and which one came from my computer via my phone ? Exactly.. 5gb a month is 5gb, no matter if its from my phone or my computer

VZ isn't loosing anything.. It's data, which rides on the cel network

I pay $60 for comcast who's limit i think is 250gb a month, and i pay $30 to VZ for 5gb ..

I'm guessing that you haven't figured out that you are violating your TOS when you listen to Pandora or Last.FM right ??

If tethering my phone is "theft" then i'm being "robbed" for TXT messaging, which..is..um.. DATA that i'm already paying for !!!

</rant>
-=<> Aaron <>=-

aaron19953 said:

now... which one came from my phone, and which one came from my computer via my phone ? Exactly.. 5gb a month is 5gb, no matter if its from my phone or my computer

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The service doesn't belong to you, it belongs to Verizon, therefore it's their place (not yours) to decide whether or not the plans they offer are going to differentiate between them.

Yes, in an ideal world. "bits are bits, no matter how they got onto the network". But this isn't an ideal world, and you don't own the signal that you're riding upon. They own it, and they're offering to rent it to you on their terms. Not yours.

johnkzin said:

3) you cannot use your phone in a manner that is inconsistent with the plan agreement, and terms of service, you agreed to with Verizon.

That's the one that you're violating.

Click to expand...

I could not find this on verizons terms and conditions... So if you could show me where in the plan agreement, or the terms of service it says this I would greatly appreciate it!

johnkzin said:

Yes, in an ideal world. "bits are bits, no matter how they got onto the network". But this isn't an ideal world, and you don't own the signal that you're riding upon. They own it, and they're offering to rent it to you on their terms. Not yours.

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Yeah, your right..

However, give me a reason WHY it's DIFFERENT ?
If i'm not exceeding my limit, what's the diff ?

-=<> Aaron <>=-

johnkzin said:

The fact that someone doesn't offer you something doesn't mean that it's "not stealing" if you take it anyway. That's kind of like the logic of:

* the door wasn't locked, so it's not stealing for me to take their TV without their permission
* the book isn't in print anymore, so it's not a copyright violation to copy it

Both of those statements are wrong.

Stealing, in this context, means "consuming a service that isn't free, and you aren't paying for". Tethering on Verizon isn't free. You aren't paying for it. Therefore, you're stealing it if you're doing it.

The fact that they don't give you the option to pay for it doesn't mean it's ok for you to "take it for free".

Click to expand...

Now that you call me out as a thief, does it change your mind that I am still paying 15 bucks for my broadband connect (tethering package) even though it shows zero data used on my bill AND I paid 30 bucks for pdanet. Sounds to me like you left your door open and I brought the bologna sandwich I am eating while sitting on your couch.

boycan said:

Now that you call me out as a thief, does it change your mind that I am still paying 15 bucks for my broadband connect (tethering package) even though it shows zero data used on my bill AND I paid 30 bucks for pdanet.

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What I said isn't changed. You asked why using it without paying for it is stealing. I said if you're using it, without paying for it, and/or without it being part of your TOS, then you're stealing it. If you're paying for the tethering add-on, and using it on the same device for which you're paying for it, then you're not stealing it. I haven't said anything different than that.

The fact that you now reveal that you lied, and you have been paying for it all along, doesn't change what I said.

johnkzin said:

What I said isn't changed. You asked why using it without paying for it is stealing. I said if you're using it, without paying for it, and/or without it being part of your TOS, then you're stealing it. If you're paying for the tethering add-on, and using it on the same device for which you're paying for it, then you're not stealing it. I haven't said anything different than that.

The fact that you now reveal that you lied, and you have been paying for it all along, doesn't change what I said.

Click to expand...

I am paying for a service they don't offer for the Doid, they were told to remove the charge at the time I bought the Droid since I knew it wouldn't tether. But since you have me so scared of Bubba making me his girlfriend I will just continue to pay and when they catch me I will just say dern why did you take my money?

I am so glad Verizon has such an outstanding boyscout out there championing the cause for them so they can remain the low cost carrier they are LOL Now why dont we stop all the name calling it really gets us nowhere anyway

This is a thread about how to tether the Droid, not about its legality. If you want to debate that, let's make a new thread and not put it on this one.

I think it is worth mentioning that PDAnet and Bluetooth DUN is NOT the only way of tethering for a Mac.

You should check out this post:
http://androidforums.com/how-tips/18532-mac-os-x-droid-tethering-usb-wired.html

I am running Snow Leopard and have this working flawlessly. It does take a bit of the command line, but it is very easy to do.

aaron19953 said:

Haha.. thanks for making me spit coffee out of my nose..

Is it against the TOS, yes..

Here's two packets of data

0111011001100101011100100110100101111010011011110110111000100000011100100110100101110000011100110010000001111001011011110111010100100000011011110110011001100110

0111011001100101011100100110100101111010011011110110111000100000011100100110100101110000011100110010000001111001011011110111010100100000011011110110011001100110

now... which one came from my phone, and which one came from my computer via my phone ? Exactly.. 5gb a month is 5gb, no matter if its from my phone or my computer

Click to expand...

Send me the full packet captures and it's easy to pick out. You have only posted "data" not the entire packet, which has header information.

Don't fool yourself, any major telco, even minor ones, have DPI boxes that can scan every single packet and generate on the fly reports if you are using a PC.


Now is VZ going to take the time to rat out people that only do it every now and then? Probably not, but that could change.

The person using say a Tb of bandwidth a month, well, that's an easy answer that has nothing to do with inspecting actual packets.

QrafTee said:

Technically Unlimited Data means... Unlimited Data. But that comes with the assumption that the end-user will use it for what the contract covers which is email, web browsing, app downloads, and apps by Verizon (ie. VZ Navigator). If you use it excessively, they can tell if you're using it for other purposes.

In the contract it says that one sure way to tell you're using it for non-covered reasons (like tethering or p2p) is if you use more than 5GB/month.

Click to expand...

I've had it for 4 days now and used 700 MB just downloading/streaming podcasts from twit,espn and web surfing. I keep hearing the unlimited is only 5 Gb fine print stuff but the only time i see anything about a 5 GB cap is their mifi tethering programs. I can't find anything about a cap on the phones data plan.

Do these companies really expect people to pay 100/200 a month and not use it?

Anyway i just tried this pdanet program for the Droid and its working fine surfing this foruma nd others. Guess if i use this i'll prob be up to 8/9 GB a months so that will make me one of those bandwith hogs i've been hearing about so much that is ruining the internet experience of the rest of the internets community.

Negativism said:

Guess if i use this i'll prob be up to 8/9 GB a months so that will make me one of those bandwith hogs i've been hearing about so much that is ruining the internet experience of the rest of the internets community.

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This is a myth created by internet service providers.

I've heard loads of boogeyman stories about people getting a surprise astronomical bill in the mail without providing proof.

I'm calling bullshit.

I've tethered for nearly 3 years without hearing a peep from Verizon.

syntrix said:

Send me the full packet captures and it's easy to pick out. You have only posted "data" not the entire packet, which has header information.

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Hehe, yeah i know it's not actually packet data, just wanted to see if anyone was going to convert the binary back to asci. Yes, my laptop would put out more data then my phone, however if it's less than 5gb who cares ?

I have a couple of apps for packet sniffing, they're fun (in a dorky techie kinda way)

As to charging you an overage, well, i didn't see it in my contract. Sure verizon can "change the terms" as they please, but i can also take it to court.

Untill some real legislation on network neutrality gets approved this is what we have to deal with. All telcos and ISP's try tricks over the years to get more money from you.. Remember when Comcast wanted to charge you more money per computer in your house ? I do.. In the end, it doesn't cost VZ any more money for me to use my computer (assuming under the 5gb limit) they are just loosing the extra $30 for the option. Frankly, i'm surprised that they still allow VOIP cause ya know, that would stop them from charging you cel minutes.

-=<> Aaron <>=-

MarvinAndroid said:

I don't see why Verizon wouldn't allow tethering through the Droid as long as you pay for it. They are doing it right now with the Blackberry's... it should be the same for their Android-based devices. I mean.. why not? They are probably making a killing on it because they charge you a fortune for it.

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NOT To mention The FCA and Phone Company's are fighting about paying more (the phone peeps, want to charge more)

Wakey said:

This is a myth created by internet service providers.

I've heard loads of boogeyman stories about people getting a surprise astronomical bill in the mail without providing proof.

I'm calling bullshit.

I've tethered for nearly 3 years without hearing a peep from Verizon.

Click to expand...

I think that could be true -- the huge bill being a myth. For one, there may or may not be caps on the usage when you're on the "unlimited" plan. But if there's an overage charge, they would have to tell you up front.

Or perhaps, these apply to the limited plans. It used to be the case that Verizon allowed tiers of use for smartphones. When I had my Treo, over a year ago, you could get some fixed number of MB, or "unlimited". If you went over on the fixed plan, you did have a per-MB fee to pay.

But getting kicked off for too much use.. that definitely happens, with Verizon, even on "unlimited" plans... or has in the past. I used to have a mobile broadband account with Verizon. That's not tethering, it's direct to a laptop or other computing device. Today, they put a 5GB cap on it, but some years ago, it was written up as "unlimited". And no, they couldn't charge you for overages, but the really did go after the top "bandwidth hogs" and kick them off the system... some of the folks I knew online had this happen.

There seems to be a belief at Verizon, AT&T, and the others that 5GB is, in fact, "unlimited" if you're using a smart phone. This is clearly untrue (I could easily exceed this limit on my DROID by streaming YouTube videos for a day or two, or about 80-100 hours of streaming music at high quality), but that seems to be their current notion. So if you exceed that, they are going to believe you're tethering or doing something else forbidden (it's actually in the contract), and based on that, they can kick you off. I don't believe they can charge you extra.

aaron19953 said:

Yeah, your right..

However, give me a reason WHY it's DIFFERENT ?
If i'm not exceeding my limit, what's the diff ?

Click to expand...

If you're not exceeding your "limit", no harm, no foul.. I claim they'll never flag you for tethering.

The issue is really about real vs. perceived limits. They say "unlimited", but they never really mean that. On an ideal connection, I can get 3.1Mb/s down on EvDO RevA. That's nearly 1.4GB per hour. 33GB per day. One TB per month.

Do you REALLY think that Verizon would let me download this much data on an "unlimited" plan? They can't.. if they let me do it, then they pretty much have to let everyone else do it. That would kill their network.

So, rather, they have this idea of what is possible, on a PDA/Smart Phone, doing everything such devices normally do. That's a magic number you and I don't know.. it might be 5GB per month, it might be based on more advanced metrics. Nothing below this threshold will flag you as doing anything evil, far as I know.. and even if it did, they'd have a hard time coming after you.

But exceed this dramatically, and I'll bet they have tracking info that says "you've been tethering, without paying us extra". They also want you to tether with permission. In theory, you have something between "5GB" and "unlimited" on your normal Android network service, but you only get 5GB per month on the tethering account. If I normally use 1GB for my DROID, I'd really like to apply the other 4GB to my tethering account. But Verizon wants to ensure that tethering expires/charges more at 5GB. So with that extra $30/month for approved tethering will come metering of the tether along with the normal smartphone use.

I have the first droid on verizon, and when i go into the wireless and networks on my droid, there it a tethering option...

if i use this without getting easy tether (or equivalent app), will it cost me or is it free?

Pretty sure they're keeping a tighter watch on this than in the past.

One time I hit close to 10gb of data and never had a connection issue. Now, if I try to watch YouTube on my PC (I'm only at 3gb right now for the month that's almost over) the connection is completely cut to my phone. I have to reboot it for it regain 3g coverage.

I would hardly call myself a data hog, as that month was a rarity, but it seems now that if I try to do anything that is remotely data intensive the connection is lost.

Or there could be some kind of hardware issue. Who knows.