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Phone is bad ass but, we still got screwed!

Motorola Rep said:
He said that the Atrix can do webtop mode because of AT&T's gsm network. (voice and data at the same time). The bionic will not have motoblur though.

In the Atrix forum there's a post from a guy who got official training on the Atrix by Motorola (and it's a great read). I figured the above quote from Motorola about the Bionic would be of interest here.

What I gather is that the Bionic didn't get webtop because of voice/data compatibility on Verizon...not a lack of hardware. Also, Verizon is allowing voice/data at the same time when data is LTE. So because of this new decision by Verizon, and the Bionic's hardware...webtop may be possible on the Bionic (if even through a hack).

Lastly - from Motorola's mouth, "BIONIC = NO BLUR!!"
 
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In the Atrix forum there's a post from a guy who got official training on the Atrix by Motorola (and it's a great read). I figured the above quote from Motorola about the Bionic would be of interest here.

What I gather is that the Bionic didn't get webtop because of voice/data compatibility on Verizon...not a lack of hardware. Also, Verizon is allowing voice/data at the same time when data is LTE. So because of this new decision by Verizon, and the Bionic's hardware...webtop may be possible on the Bionic (if even through a hack).

Lastly - from Motorola's mouth, "BIONIC = NO BLUR!!"

Don't know where you heard "from Moto's mouth" the Bionic doesn't have Blur, but everywhere else, even the techs at CES, said it is a "modified form of Blur that is less invasive to the stock Android experience". Means it's still Blur, just less of it. Take a look at pics on Moto's site, sure looks like a slightly modified Blur to me, especially in hands-on vids.

That information about Atrix getting webtop because of simultaneous voice/data is slightly ridiculous. For one, it was already stated that LTE will support this anyways. Second, I don't quite see why docking a phone matters in the sense of simultaneous voice/data. Verizon already has tethering, which is the same concept, where the data throughput would simply halt temporarily for a phone call until the call ends and start data back up again, so it isn't like it wasn't possible to put this function into a phone without simultaneous voice/data.
 
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Don't butcher the messenger, go to the Atrix forum and look for yourself.

Information from a Rep., getting his information from another Rep.? Not all that much vote of confidence with that being the case. Again, it was known that the introduction of LTE would allow this function to happen if that were the case, yet they did not even put in the same hardware to even allow a future software update to add Webtop (which CEO of Motorola said they would be deploying Webtop onto other new and existing devices at a 'future date'"). What other conclusion would that lead you to other than that they only intended Webtop for that particular phone for an extended period of time for maybe a very specific reason? Maybe, say, an exclusive deal with ATT for a short time, maybe to test the waters of a very experimental idea that is extremely hit or miss and see if it takes off? Since ATT is losing iPhone exclusivity they needed a couple of new things to pull customers. Simply saying "simultaneous voice/data was necessary for this to work" is a complete cop-out for a rep or even a CEO to say, because they obviously would never tell you "we lost a great product that everyone wanted so now we have to try something else".
 
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I can't see how we are even remotely screwed. The Bionic is the better device.

Atrix: Full Motoblur. Will require motoblur account to activate phone.
Boinic: Motorola applications platform. Which means it has a custom
launcher and some widgets and thats it.
Winner: Bionic

Atrix: 4.0" screen
Bionic: 4.3" screen
Winner: Bionic

Atrix: 1Gb of LPDDR. Needed to run desktop version when docked.
Bionic: 512Mb of DESKTOP grade DDR2. Will be faster in most if not all
applications outside of a dock
Winner: Bionic

Atrix: A-GPS, not as accurate as S-GPS
Bionix: S-GPS, more accurate than A-GPS
Winner: Bionic

Atrix: 5 Megapixel rear camera
Bionic: 8 Megapixel rear camera
Winner: Bionic

Atrix: Att 3G network.
Bionic: Verizon 3g network and 4G LTE.
Winner: Bionic (by a huge margin)

Atrix: Can NOT side load apps on ATT
Bionic: CAN side load apps on Verizon
Winner: Bionic

Atrix: ATT customer service consistently ranked at the bottom
Bionic: Verizon customer service consistently ranked at the top
Winner: Bionic

I could keep going but you get the idea. The ONLY thing the Atrix has over the Bionic is the dock but even thats a matter of opinion. You would still need to carry 2 devices and I would rather have my M11X (or the Xoom I will be purchasing on launch day) and a Bionic than the Atrix and its dock.
 
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I can't see how we are even remotely screwed. The Bionic is the better device.

Atrix: Full Motoblur. Will require motoblur account to activate phone.
Boinic: Motorola applications platform. Which means it has a custom
launcher and some widgets and thats it.
Winner: Bionic
Unless you root in which case this is irrelevant. Unless efuse is added by Verizons request in which case the Atrixs wins out

Atrix: 4.0" screen
Bionic: 4.3" screen
Winner: Bionic
.3" isn't a noticeable difference. And if programs are written for a standard resolution and .3" changes your ration from wide to super wide then you are gaining black bars on both sides. I'm honestly not sure how much this actually happens but it shows that bigger isn't always better.
Atrix: 1Gb of LPDDR. Needed to run desktop version when docked.
Bionic: 512Mb of DESKTOP grade DDR2. Will be faster in most if not all
applications outside of a dock
Winner: Bionic
But there's still no webtop? Faster but with less features isn't a win.

Atrix: A-GPS, not as accurate as S-GPS
Bionix: S-GPS, more accurate than A-GPS
Winner: Bionic
I'm not sure anyone needs to locate utilities on their property so I'm not sure why this matters?

Atrix: 5 Megapixel rear camera
Bionic: 8 Megapixel rear camera
Winner: Bionic
the iphones 5 megapixel camera is better then any 8 mp I've seen in a phone yet. It's common knowledge that megapixel isn't a accurate representation of a cameras capability. The bionic probably does have a better camera but phone cameras to date have sucked...so I'm not sure this matters unless one of them is better then anything currently availible.


Atrix: Att 3G network.
Bionic: Verizon 3g network and 4G LTE.
Winner: Bionic (by a huge margin)
Only 4g isn't availible in most markets and Verizon is not going to make their 2013 transition to 4g anymore. If you replace your phone annually then the bionic will likely never see a 4g network. The margin is only noticeable if you live on the east or west coast or in Chicago. NOt to mention you WILL pay more on Verizon.

Atrix: Can NOT side load apps on ATT
Bionic: CAN side load apps on Verizon
Winner: Bionic
I'm not sure what you are talking about. Verizon has locked out obex blue tooth profile on all their phones. Verizon is also a HUGE advocate for DRM. In the end it's really irrelvant because of rooting

Atrix: ATT customer service consistently ranked at the bottom
Bionic: Verizon customer service consistently ranked at the top
Winner: Bionic
You're paying for it though right?

I could keep going but you get the idea. The ONLY thing the Atrix has over the Bionic is the dock but even thats a matter of opinion. You would still need to carry 2 devices and I would rather have my M11X (or the Xoom I will be purchasing on launch day) and a Bionic than the Atrix and its dock.

Do you work for Verizon?

I've seen reviews where the iphones sealed battery meant that it's superior to a droid. It's all a matter of preference. I countered in red. I'm kinda over the bionic so I have no vested interest in the bionic and am playing devils advocate. It's hard to say what will be available when the bionic finally drops and what will drop the month after the bionic...and what will drop on other networks. Verizons network is the best, no competition but can I get coverage in my daily routine on a different network for less...
 
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Do you work for Verizon?

I've seen reviews where the iphones sealed battery meant that it's superior to a droid. It's all a matter of preference. I countered in red. I'm kinda over the bionic so I have no vested interest in the bionic and am playing devils advocate. It's hard to say what will be available when the bionic finally drops and what will drop the month after the bionic...and what will drop on other networks. Verizons network is the best, no competition but can I get coverage in my daily routine on a different network for less...

The point of my post is exactly what you stated. What is better for me is not going to be better for everyone. Its all a matter of preference. But I fail to see why you would be insulting with the first line of your post. I will address your points one by one.

1. The vast majority of buyers are not going to root so how they come out of the box is what matters. Efuse is not some software thing added by Verizon. Efuse is there by Motorolas doing so if the Bionic has it the Atrix will have it as well. Either way its part of the chipset Motorola uses from TI and since the chipset in the Atrix and Bionic are from nvidia its doubtful efuse will be on either device. Since you are obviously ingnorant as to what efuse is and does this link may help you Enough with the eFuse DROID X Talk Already - Droid Life: A Droid Community Blog

2. .3 inches is in fact a noticeable difference and may be important to some people, just as the slightly higher pixel density on the Atrix might be. Both the Atrix and the Bionic have the same qHD resolution so the rest of your point in regard to the screen is completely irrelevant.

3. The only feature the Bionic doesnt have (at this point in time, it may change later) is the dock. The vast majority of the time these devices will be used away from the dock. In that case I would choose faster every single time. Either way its a win for ME. The OP stated that he/she thinks
that Verizon is behind the curve here and I am stating why I think they are not.

4. Just about everyone knows more megapixels doesn't always mean better. As such one manufacturers 5 MP camera may be better than another manufaturers 8 MP camera. In this case however we are talking about the same manufacturer and we have seen so far that Motorolas 8 MP camers are much better than their 5 MP cameras. Check out the picture thread in the Droid X forum and come back and tell us how all those excellent pictures suck. A cell phone camera is not going to be better than most good stand alone cameras but the cameras on the current generation of smarts phones do not suck.

5. Maybe you failed to notice but these two devices are being marketed as 4G devices making it one of the most important features of the device. Verizon has FAR more 3G AND 4G coverage than ATT does by a HUGE margin. Far more users will benefit from Verizon coverage here than ATT's.
Last time I checked Verizon and ATT's prices were pretty much the same. The big difference being Verizon still has unlimited data plans. Neither have announced their 4G pricing so you have no way of knowing who will cost more. Also, I pay almost $100 less on my family plan with unlimited data than I would on a comparable ATT plan.

6. What it means is that you can ONLY install apps from the Android Market on ATT. On Verizon you can install apps however you want. Again, its completely relevant for the VAST MAJORITY of the people who are going to purchase these devices. The original OP stated why Verizon is behind the curve. I am giving my opinion why they are not. ROOT is irrelevant in the context this discussion.

7. Again the OP is stating that Verizon is always behind the curve. I am giving my opinion that ATT is far behind the curve in customer service. Yes, we are paying for it. So I am paying for good service and you are paying for crap service so who wins out there?

You seem to be under some delusion that ATT is cheaper than VZW. They are pretty much the same when it comes to pricing. The OP stated they think that Verizon and the Bionic are behind the curve. I stated that in my opinion Verizon is far from behind the curve. Nothing you stated changes that.
 
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The point of my post is exactly what you stated. What is better for me is not going to be better for everyone. Its all a matter of preference. But I fail to see why you would be insulting with the first line of your post. I will address your points one by one.

It was humor;)

When comparing carriers I don't think I would compare att and verizon. Sprint is closer to Verizon at this point....and they haven't released their pick for the tegra 2 yet. That will be a game changer imo.

I did some heavy research last night on the atrix, bionic, the samsung 4g, lg epic and sony's offerings. The bionic and atrix seem to be the most advanced at this point with the epic right on their heels. It didn't escape that he bionic is nearly twice as thick as the iphone4. This is a huge phone.
 
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Even with webtop, the price of the laptop dock + it might require a tethering plan if you use webtop..

Just for those 2 reasons alone the Atrix just became even more similar to the Bionic. I would still give the edge to the Atrix. Its just the price of the laptop dock is in the range of a monster laptop or higher than a netbook.

And yea I think the Bionic does have Blur, just looks less like it on the Bionic. For all we know they coulda just modified the launcher...lol

On the Droid X is was a mix of stock Android and Blur. Lock screen: stock Android (until Moto updated the phone...) dial pad, stock Android; some other areas probably. Blur was the launcher, there were some Blur widgets, dont know what else. Most other phones with a custom UI have more custom UI than stock Android.
 
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I covet Webtop as I could really use it. But for the prices I'm seeing, I could probably just as easily get the Xoom.

I'm thinking I prefer the 4" screen over the 4.3". I thought the Droid was almost too big when it came out. But as I've never owned larger than 3.7", I'll just have to wait and see.

A pretty big deal for me is the camera. I don't have my own personal camera as I've always had one in my phone. Now the Droid's 5mp leaves a lot to be desired. My g/f's Incredible has the 8mp and that thing takes awesome pix for a phone. If the Bionic's 8mp comes anywhere close, I'll be satisfied.
 
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the one thing that people seem to be overlooking about the two that for me make the bionic a clear winner is that the Atrix is NOT a "with google" phone, wheres as the Bionic is.

This means that the atrix has nothing similar to a stock android experience, and is in essence, not a google recomended device.

What do you mean by this?

The Atrix is running Android, therefore it is "with google."
 
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To respond to the OP, we both get screwed.

Here's where Bionic purchasers lose, or "get screwed" like the OP mentions: Bionic users get a larger, bulkier device, and lose some sharpness on the screen. Bionic users lose a bit of memory. Bionic users lose the docking options. Bionic users also lose the actually quite ingenious fingerprint unlock device.

Atrix users get screwed out of $300 just for a stupid screen/keyboard combo. Atrix users (if rumor holds true) get less of a stock google experience out of the box (which rooting should rectify for those that really need to - it's still based on Android, and the community is still going to make the device do what they want...eventually!) Then Atrix users have the pleasure of paying an extra fee IN ADDITION to their data fee because the webtop now counts as tethering. Wow, AT&T. That is screwy as hell.
 
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I also think Atrix/Bionic are not that great phones after all.
The first letdown is the locked boot-loader as usual for Motorola these days.
The second is their choice of Tegra 2 processor. By the time Bionic launches in Q2, there will be Samsung Galaxy S2 with Orion coming soon and possibly HTC Pyramid or Incredible 2 with dual core snapdragon 3. There are rumors/reports that both Orion and Snapdragon 3 will be a little faster, more advanced than Tegra 2. Also LG Optimus 3D that will be unveiled at MWC is rumored to have TI OMAP 4 dual core processor or it might be Tegra 2-3D. So I wonder if going with Tegra 2 for Atrix/Bionic was wise decision for Motorola. I don't know what Motorola has in their store for Droid X2 in the second half. Some folks speculate they will put TI OMAP 4 in that phone, and I think that would be good move.
 
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I know after reading some stuff about Tegra 2 battery life vs. the other dual core chips last year...I will let the eager folks get the Bionic and Atrix first and sit back for the real use reviews to come in. I think I'm gonna wait for other dual core chips to come out....I think....lol

Anandtech did a review of the LG 2X. The battery life section was interesting...

LG Optimus 2X & NVIDIA Tegra 2 Review: The First Dual-Core Smartphone - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

I already knew the Droid 2 had probably the best battery life of any Android phone. It uses a 1390 battery and has a higher rated talk time than the Droid x which uses a 1540 battery. Put a 1540 in the Droid 2 and it has better results in the tests.

The LG 2X looks like it comes with a 1500 battery...I hope the Bionic and Atrix score as good or better results in the battery tests....considering they both have 1900 batteries...

I do like that the 2X comes with an HDMI cord....hope other manufactures follow that lead.
 
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I'm kind of considering a switch to Verizon (from AT&T), now that the iPhone is available on Vz (and that's the Wifey's choice, currently using an iP4). I dig on what I'm seeing with the Atrix, so the natural phone consideration for me would be the new Moto product on Vz, the Bionic. So I've been lurking around a little :D

Atrix: 4.0" screen
Bionic: 4.3" screen
Winner: Bionic

4" with better PPI may wind up being better. The iP4 is stellar, and my Captivate is plenty big at 4", but I would love the ~275PPI that qHD (960x540) would be on a 4" display. MY jury is still out on this - I do like the 4.3" displays I've seen, but I thought the phone was starting to get a little chunky.


Atrix: A-GPS, not as accurate as S-GPS
Bionix: S-GPS, more accurate than A-GPS
Winner: Bionic


Very interesting, I didn't know the GPS system was implemented differently between the two. Coming from a GPS gimpy Captivate, I definitely want a MUCH better GPS experience.



Atrix: 5 Megapixel rear camera
Bionic: 8 Megapixel rear camera
Winner: Bionic

As someone pointed out, 5MP can easily be better, less noise, etc., especially with the small[ish] sensors in use by cellphone cameras. I'd always opt for better PQ over more MP once you hit ~5MP (which allows a nice 8x10-12x14 to be printed and +plenty+ big for digital use).


Atrix: Att 3G network.
Bionic: Verizon 3g network and 4G LTE.
Winner: Bionic (by a huge margin)

I guess ultimately the LTE network will be better, but the Atrix will have HSPA+ in the LTE-interim, so it should be pretty perky in the right coverage area. My main network bandwidth consumption tends to happen up in DC, which I'm sure will be getting the post 3G techs sooner than later.

Good post though, some interesting comparison points.
 
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