HTC EVO 3D LTE/WIMAX capabilities

I'm not saying LTE has won at all. Just posting an article. I am personally looking forward to testing everyone's claims against WiMax

I pose this question in form of a hypothetical scenario. My buddy just bought a Thunderbolt and wants to test out his Hotspot feature while connected to LTE. EVO 4G accepts and connects to the provided Thunderbolt wifi hotspot signal. EVO 4G conducts a speed test to satisfy the curious Thunderbolt. They both witness an increase in broadband speeds and prove Thunderbolt is indeed receiving an LTE high speed connection. Now, pretend the Thunderbolt is in fact a cell tower receiving LTE data and has the ability to transmit a Wifi signal aka Wimax. Would this not make it possible for all current Wimax devices to use LTE or Wimax? If something as small as a cell phone is able to accomplish this feat, why not at tower? Wimax is nothing more than a nuclear powered wifi hotspot signal, could the same not be duplicated? Could this be what is taking place with sprints leap frog program?

WifiMaxed said:

I pose this question in form of a hypothetical scenario. My buddy just bought a Thunderbolt and wants to test out his Hotspot feature while connected to LTE. EVO 4G accepts and connects to the provided Thunderbolt wifi hotspot signal. EVO 4G conducts a speed test to satisfy the curious Thunderbolt. They both witness an increase in broadband speeds and prove Thunderbolt is indeed receiving an LTE high speed connection. Now, pretend the Thunderbolt is in fact a cell tower receiving LTE data and has the ability to transmit a Wifi signal aka Wimax. Would this not make it possible for all current Wimax devices to use LTE or Wimax? If something as small as a cell phone is able to accomplish this feat, why not at tower? Wimax is nothing more than a nuclear powered wifi hotspot signal, could the same not be duplicated? Could this be what is taking place with sprints leap frog program?

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No, there is so many things that would make it impossible to do that it would take most of the night to list them.

To be honest, if sprint would launch lte tomorrow, there is no reason to turn off wimax in the next 10 years.

Sprint has more then enough spectrum to do anything it wants. If it turned on lte, it would perform and behave just like wimax, which means there is zero reason do it.

None of the things that you think lte does that wimax cant is remotely real. You will not be able to roam, transfer phones, or even get better speeds. Yes that is right, it is not the standard use but the build out. If you hooked up wimax on verizon network, it would run about the same.

LTE will do nothing that wimax currently doesn't do better. The reason that lte, as it currently is, is faster is because verizon's networks is virtually empty of traffic and the ways to test the speed of the network are horribly broken, most speed test work one with 3g networks.

If you remotely tested it on a through put bases you will see that it is really no faster then wimax.

So if sprint went with lte, you, as a consumer, would get nothing in return. It would be the same speed with the same limitations.

I have no idea why you are addicted to the name, because that is all you will get.

RiverOfIce said:

No, there is so many things that would make it impossible to do that it would take most of the night to list them.

To be honest, if sprint would launch lte tomorrow, there is no reason to turn off wimax in the next 10 years.

Sprint has more then enough spectrum to do anything it wants. If it turned on lte, it would perform and behave just like wimax, which means there is zero reason do it.

None of the things that you think lte does that wimax cant is remotely real. You will not be able to roam, transfer phones, or even get better speeds. Yes that is right, it is not the standard use but the build out. If you hooked up wimax on verizon network, it would run about the same.

LTE will do nothing that wimax currently doesn't do better. The reason that lte, as it currently is, is faster is because verizon's networks is virtually empty of traffic and the ways to test the speed of the network are horribly broken, most speed test work one with 3g networks.

If you remotely tested it on a through put bases you will see that it is really no faster then wimax.

So if sprint went with lte, you, as a consumer, would get nothing in return. It would be the same speed with the same limitations.

I have no idea why you are addicted to the name, because that is all you will get.

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My thoughts exactly. I can only see this as Sprint hedging there bets in the future and trying to protect share holder interest. Technology is there to support whatever it's going to be called. My understanding is LTE data is received via hard wire and then transmitted wireless via cell tower? I understand a hardware upgrade at the base station would be required to achieve the same in the example above. I just think if they were to come out and say what there intension were. The consumer would be better off. I am still leaning toward hearing something about EVO 3D supporting both at launch.

Let me sum it up right here. Wimax works on a higher frequency and it blows at penetrating buildings. LTE operates on a lower frequency thereby having the ability to penetrate buildings. If you work in a nice building with different levels or on a military installation don't expect to get WiMax indoors.

To say the only reason Verizon LTE is faster than Sprint Wimax is because the network is empty is totally false.

Lets put it like this, I got my Evo on launch day. There were very few Sprint 4G customers at that time, and even fewer in my city. I bet Verizon has as many or more 4G customers right now than Sprint did on the Evo launch day.

I have NEVER got the speeds that Verizon LTE customers are getting today. Not even remotely close. The best I have ever got was 8 megs down and 1 meg up. Of course I never get anywhere near that anymore. I usually get around 4 megs down and 1 meg up.

Verizon users are posting speed tests of 18 megs down and 14 megs up. That is MUCH better than anyone has ever got on Sprint's Wimax.

Oh yeah, and there absolutely will be roaming on LTE. I already posted a link to an article talking about how the FCC is set to announce their new roaming rules very soon. This is absolutely going to happen.

Now, I don;t know if you will be able to take your Verizon SIM card and pop it into an AT&T phone or not. You may very well be able to, but I don't know about that one just yet. But you will absolutely be able to roam with an LTE phone.

Slick1020 said:

Let me sum it up right here. Wimax works on a higher frequency and it blows at penetrating buildings. LTE operates on a lower frequency thereby having the ability to penetrate buildings. If you work in a nice building with different levels or on a military installation don't expect to get WiMax indoors.

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See I call this in to question. When I first got my EVO i never expected to get a 4G signal within my office. I work for a Telecom company(All different kinds of equipment and Frequencies to interfere) and I can consistantly get 2 bars ATLEAST of 4G sitting right at my desk.

Im getting 4G signals better than others can get standard 3G with other carriers.


And for the WiMax vs. LTE speeds, LTE is supposed to be faster. Even with that, you are not going to see LTE stable at those speeds when it becomes more standard.

Guarantee if there was an iPhone released w/ LTE soon, it would almost cripple the Network and speeds.

And if anyone really thinks that WiMax would just disappear and be shut down if Sprint went to LTE, they dont understand Telecom(Wireless included) at all.

Slick1020 said:

Let me sum it up right here. Wimax works on a higher frequency and it blows at penetrating buildings. LTE operates on a lower frequency thereby having the ability to penetrate buildings. If you work in a nice building with different levels or on a military installation don't expect to get WiMax indoors.

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It doesn't matter whether it's LTE or WiMax. Either can be run at different frequencies. It just happens Sprint/Clearwire's WiMax was setup at 2.5ghz, which looks to be an international standard.

Verizon and AT&T were smart when spectrum became available @ 700mhz. They knew the benefits so they bought what they could at a whopping $16Billion. That 700mhz spectrum purchase is now paying for for Verizon.

If Sprint/Clearwire were to put LTE on their 2.5ghz spectrum, where they have lots of available spectrum, you're going to end up with the same building penetration issues. That's why Sprint's LeapFrog program is looking to move CDMA to 800mhz, and use parts of their 800mhz and 1900mhz frequency for LTE.

At 2.5ghz, you have to set up 3-4 times as many towers to get the same coverage as something at 700 mhz.

BTW, having lots of towers isn't a bad thing... It not only helps with coverage, but helps with bandwidth needs. Because of this, you will see Verizon put more and more LTE sites, up in cities, as capacity is needed. In Sprint Clearwires case @ 2,5ghz, they have to make the gigantic initial investment for multiple towers, up front, just to get decent coverage..

Roaming on LTE will happen... You just won't see it until there's a benefit to all parties that want to roam on each others networks. Right now Verizon has no incentive to resell or allow roaming on their LTE network.

The only way roaming will happen b4 it becomes a mutually beneficial issue is if the FCC forces low cost roaming/resell as they currently do for voice.

BlackDynamite said:

Lets put it like this, I got my Evo on launch day. There were very few Sprint 4G customers at that time, and even fewer in my city. I bet Verizon has as many or more 4G customers right now than Sprint did on the Evo launch day.

I have NEVER got the speeds that Verizon LTE customers are getting today. Not even remotely close. The best I have ever got was 8 megs down and 1 meg up. Of course I never get anywhere near that anymore. I usually get around 4 megs down and 1 meg up.

Verizon users are posting speed tests of 18 megs down and 14 megs up. That is MUCH better than anyone has ever got on Sprint's Wimax.

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The accuracy of the Thunderbolt's speed test has already come under scrutiny. Hot-spotting results in much slower speeds. Android Central was only able to get like 3mb down during their tests.

Just saying LTE is faster than Wimax is a simplistic conclusion that doesn't take into account network congestion, tower proximity, device type, back haul etc etc etc.

Then there is the matter of how the network is actually managed. For example Clear and Sprint keep download speeds in the 1mb range, while download speeds are largely determined by network traffic.

I've got Wimax to the home, and my speeds fluctuate between 4-10mb, with an average of 8mb when I am actually home.

The limitations in terms of raw speed, are largely theoretical. We will know a lot more about Verizon's LTE capabilities in 12 months. I wouldn't come to any hard conclusions this early in the game.

Sprint should be in no rush to adopt LTE unless there is some hard tangible results that make the change over worth the expenditure. Dumping Clear is another damn good reason.

The prospect of LTE over iDEN freqs could yield great results in terms of coverage and penetration as well, though, I get great 4G reception in buildings I frequent so this doesn't concern me as much.

I'd also like to see some official LTE Speeds from the Thunderbolt, although we might get a better idea when another LTE phone is released to compare the two.

Regardless of the LTE vs. WiMax war going on, I can't understand how some people would believe that WiMax would just be "shut off" if/when Sprint goes to LTE. It doesnt work that way.

This isnt the same as the HD-DVD vs Bluray battle. They may have stopped making HD DVD's, but they didnt send some killswitch to the players so they wouldnt work at all. And Sprints choice of WiMax(First) is not as costly as the choice Microsoft made to use HD DVD.

Even if Sprint decide to go full force with LTE later this year....they wouldnt even be in full LTE spectrum until 2013 at the earliest. They would use WiMax as a backbone, and backhaul for the LTE network they would want to roll out.

They have said it all along, that a change to LTE would be software base in their towers. I'm sure that Leapfrog, or whatever projects that have, arent even possible without having that WiMax signal in place first, regardless of what spectrum they will be using.

BlackDynamite said:

To say the only reason Verizon LTE is faster than Sprint Wimax is because the network is empty is totally false.

I have NEVER got the speeds that Verizon LTE customers are getting today.

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Sigh, you will say anything. So the 2 year of service that clear was selling to consumers now does not count. It is just a amazing what you will say. But to make this understood.

You are saying that the 2-4 million users on wimax, before the htc evo was sold, each downing about 7gigs per month is equal to verizons lte network which had less then 50,000 users, was available only to mobile users, which use less then 2gigs per month, two months before launch is equal?

The reason that you are not getting the same speeds is because you are dealing with a phone that is about 1.5 years old now, hardware wise, compared to a phone that is about .3 months old hardware wise. Do you expect that with all your electrics? That a 1.5 year old pc is expected to match the latest and greatest pc?

Tell me how?

If you want to talk about the 3% degrade in building penetration, should not also point out the cross fade of 18% with lte and anything with power running through it. OR the 15% degrade near radio/tv towers?

Why is it a football game with you people. I picked my team so it has to be better.

RiverOfIce said:

Sigh, you will say anything. So the 2 year of service that clear was selling to consumers now does not count. It is just a amazing what you will say. But to make this understood.

You are saying that the 2-4 million users on wimax, before the htc evo was sold, each downing about 7gigs per month is equal to verizons lte network which had less then 50,000 users, was available only to mobile users, which use less then 2gigs per month, two months before launch is equal?

The reason that you are not getting the same speeds is because you are dealing with a phone that is about 1.5 years old now, hardware wise, compared to a phone that is about .3 months old hardware wise. Do you expect that with all your electrics? That a 1.5 year old pc is expected to match the latest and greatest pc?

Tell me how?

If you want to talk about the 3% degrade in building penetration, should not also point out the cross fade of 18% with lte and anything with power running through it. OR the 15% degrade near radio/tv towers?

Why is it a football game with you people. I picked my team so it has to be better.

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You say I will say anything and then you come with this?

Look man, in MY city, Sprint probably had a grand total of about 30-40 Wimax users, tops. And I highly doubt there were even that many.

I would love to see numbers that prove Sprint had 2-4 million Wimax users before the Evo was released. I highly doubt that is true. Well I guess it could be fudged, counting Wimax that is used as backhaul, and Wimax capable data cards that were sold to customers in 3G areas.

Verizon launched many more cities than Sprint's initial launch. Heck, Verizon probably had more LTE cities at launch than Sprint had Wimax in their first year after launch.

I remember hardly anyone being in a Wimax area when the Evo was launched. Say what you want about them selling service for 2 years before the Evo was launched, but it doesn't matter if that service was only available in a couple small towns.

BlackDynamite said:

You say I will say anything and then you come with this?

Look man, in MY city, Sprint probably had a grand total of about 30-40 Wimax users, tops. And I highly doubt there were even that many.

I would love to see numbers that prove Sprint had 2-4 million Wimax users before the Evo was released. I highly doubt that is true. Well I guess it could be fudged, counting Wimax that is used as backhaul, and Wimax capable data cards that were sold to customers in 3G areas.

Verizon launched many more cities than Sprint's initial launch. Heck, Verizon probably had more LTE cities at launch than Sprint had Wimax in their first year after launch.

I remember hardly anyone being in a Wimax area when the Evo was launched. Say what you want about them selling service for 2 years before the Evo was launched, but it doesn't matter if that service was only available in a couple small towns.

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Girl, not man.

Tell me your city and I can give you the average number of people and data use.

The total number for 2-4 million includes, comcast, time warner, intel, google, clear, and sprints numbers. You have to remember wimax is not made for cellphones, it is made for home internet connections.

But to be blunt, clear did some things with the wimax build out that was bat sh!& stupid. If they went to LTE, it would still have the same problems.

If you think verizon is better, then go. The htc evo 3d has clocked over 40mbps down and 2 mbps up. But a good phone on a bad network build is not going to help you.

All you do is complain about wimax in a wimax phone forum, maybe you should just get the htc thunderbolt and pay for those speeds that you are talking about.

RiverOfIce said:

Girl, not man.

Tell me your city and I can give you the average number of people and data use.

The total number for 2-4 million includes, comcast, time warner, intel, google, clear, and sprints numbers. You have to remember wimax is not made for cellphones, it is made for home internet connections.

But to be blunt, clear did some things with the wimax build out that was bat sh!& stupid. If they went to LTE, it would still have the same problems.

If you think verizon is better, then go. The htc evo 3d has clocked over 40mbps down and 2 mbps up. But a good phone on a bad network build is not going to help you.

All you do is complain about wimax in a wimax phone forum, maybe you should just get the htc thunderbolt and pay for those speeds that you are talking about.

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So by saying Sprint's Wimax rollout is not as good as Verizon's LTE rollout, that means I should break my Sprint contract and go to Verizon?

I also admit that my car is not as fast as a Lamborghini. Does that mean I should get rid of my car and buy a Lamborghini?

People need to understand that we are not here to be cheerleaders. If we're talking about Wimax and LTE and I list some advantages for LTE, it doesn't mean I have no business participating in the discussion.

wait.. so you prefer to be with sprint??? only hope that they go with lte?

dan330 said:

wait.. so you prefer to be with sprint??? only hope that they go with lte?

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It wouldn't surprise me if BlackDynamite was nothing but a shill for the 3GPP.

One problem with LTE that is hardly being brought up...is it the Thunderbolt itself that is causing such poor battery efficiency when on LTE, or is it LTE drawing so much power itself?

This needs to be determined, along with the actual Speeds, all other points are moot for right now.

I can careless how fast LTE is, what good does it do me if the radio drains the battery like no other. Sure WiMax is also a drain, but no where near as I have seen with reports of the Thunderbolt.

Plus you can switch off WiMax, LTE on the Thunderbolt can only be done thru a hack so far.

BlackDynamite said:

If we're talking about Wimax and LTE and I list some advantages for LTE, it doesn't mean I have no business participating in the discussion.

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But advantages that dont exist with sprints network. Yes, verizon did build out the network alot better with lte. Why, because they are not bleeding cash every month, like sprint and clear are.

But it would change nothing if they went with lte. And you willl not be able to transfer phones, from one carrier to the next, with lte.

Wimax and lte are equal, when placed on the same network. Which means lte will just cost more for the same type of service.

dan330 said:

wait.. so you prefer to be with sprint??? only hope that they go with lte?

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Sprint is cheaper, Verizon has better service. I don't think too many people would argue against that.

The question is; is Sprint good enough to get you by at the lower cost?

When I bought my Evo, which was the best phone on the market at the time and the only 4G available in this country, the answer was a resounding yes. Now that Verizon has better 4G than Sprint all over the place, and a slew of awesome 4G phones about to hit the market, that question is not so easy to answer.

If Sprint is rolling out LTE, and I have several ETF fees if I leave anyway, then that also has to be factored in.

ekt8750 said:

It wouldn't surprise me if BlackDynamite was nothing but a shill for the 3GPP.

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A lot of things wouldn't surprise me.

BlackDynamite said:

Sprint is cheaper, Verizon has better service. I don't think too many people would argue against that.

The question is; is Sprint good enough to get you by at the lower cost?

When I bought my Evo, which was the best phone on the market at the time and the only 4G available in this country, the answer was a resounding yes. Now that Verizon has better 4G than Sprint all over the place, and a slew of awesome 4G phones about to hit the market, that question is not so easy to answer.

If Sprint is rolling out LTE, and I have several ETF fees if I leave anyway, then that also has to be factored in.

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Before you start making absolute statements such as, "Verizon has better service," you might want to make sure you're speaking for yourself. I know a shit ton of people who live in a major area who hate Verizon's service. I HATE Verizon's service. I can't even make a call half the time because there is no cell service even though the maps clearly show coverage.

evotitans said:

One problem with LTE that is hardly being brought up...is it the Thunderbolt itself that is causing such poor battery efficiency when on LTE, or is it LTE drawing so much power itself?

This needs to be determined, along with the actual Speeds, all other points are moot for right now.

I can careless how fast LTE is, what good does it do me if the radio drains the battery like no other. Sure WiMax is also a drain, but no where near as I have seen with reports of the Thunderbolt.

Plus you can switch off WiMax, LTE on the Thunderbolt can only be done thru a hack so far.

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LTE is in the 700mhz range which is always going to suck down power, it can not change subchannels like wimax, it can only increase power to save a connection. It is also using protocols that are about 10 years old now.

The faster the phone is, the more the battery life it sucks, which is why the placed a soft software cap on speeds with the htc evo, of 10mbps.

The biggest issues with lte is radio and tv interference, and then powerline fade, which has to be overcome with an increase in power.

There is really no way around this, they opted for a wide open 700mhz, they have to just increase power. Thank you cold war era broadcast systems.

BlackDynamite said:

Sprint is cheaper, Verizon has better service. I don't think too many people would argue against that.

The question is; is Sprint good enough to get you by at the lower cost?

When I bought my Evo, which was the best phone on the market at the time and the only 4G available in this country, the answer was a resounding yes. Now that Verizon has better 4G than Sprint all over the place, and a slew of awesome 4G phones about to hit the market, that question is not so easy to answer.

If Sprint is rolling out LTE, and I have several ETF fees if I leave anyway, then that also has to be factored in.

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Absolutely the lower cost from Sprint is more than enough to get me by. I have had no issues in 11 years where I live with Sprint service....its just as good as Verizon's here, and I can easily roam onto Verizon if need be.

Verizon 4G better than Sprint, sure you can say that off of speculation right now. But until more LTE phones come out, that is just a guess. Are these newer LTE phones going to have the same battery issues that the Thunderbolt has? How well are these other phones going to be at obtaining the so called "marketed" LTE speeds??

Sounds to me as someone else has said you are ready to jump over to Verizon regardless of 4G....and using unofficial numbers as a means of justifying it.

And sorry, one thing Sprint will undoubtedly win in my mind is Unlimited everything, data being a high priority....as LTE is fully rolled out that will evaporate quickly within Verizon.

Simply put, I have an Evo and a Thunderbolt. The TB download speeds absolutely crush the Evo.. not even much worth comparing. Upload speeds average about 5-8 megs, which still crushes the Evo since Sprint caps their uploads at 1 meg. We all know about the building penetration issue so I wont even start on that. And FYI, my sister was an early adopter of Clear when it first came to Atlanta.. before any 4G phones were even released. Even with just the modem in the early stages, wimax still never saw even remotely close to the speeds that the TB is getting right now.

And the difference between Sprint and VZW is, VZW pretty much has endless money to put LTE towers where ever they see fit. They're already doing one thing that Clear ISNT, and that's coming back into the city that they've already lit up coverage in and adding more towers to intensify their coverage. Clear hasnt added any towers here since they lit up Atlanta. You can literally look at VZW's coverage map one day and see a hole in the LTE coverage, and then look two days later and the area that was once a hole is covered. I see the VZW trucks that ride around and basically look for dead spots just to contract out towers to fill the holes all the time. Huge sporting event? VZW brings a mobile 18 wheeler tower truck and parks it outside of the dome so their customers have service when everyone else cant get through.

I think a lot of Sprint people are counting on the fact that LTE speeds are going to get a lot worse once VZW gets more people on the network. While it may slow a bit, odds are with the density that they put towers here to handle bandwidth and backhaul, their LTE will still be easily better than Wimax. They arent cheap, but when you want improvements as a customer you have to be willing to pay for it.. point blank. Sprint was able to tout having 4G first, but now we see that first may not have necessarily been a good thing as they're almost certainly going to have to go back and deploy LTE now to compete. And considering Sprints single line prices REALLY arent that much cheaper than VZW's anymore, they'd better start planning their next steps wisely.

RiverOfIce said:

But advantages that dont exist with sprints network. Yes, verizon did build out the network alot better with lte. Why, because they are not bleeding cash every month, like sprint and clear are.

But it would change nothing if they went with lte. And you willl not be able to transfer phones, from one carrier to the next, with lte.

Wimax and lte are equal, when placed on the same network. Which means lte will just cost more for the same type of service.

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Those advantages actually do exist with Sprint though. If Sprint rolls out LTE on spectrum that they currently use for CDMA or iDEN, which is what is rumored to be happening, then it would compete with Verizon's LTE network.