Root [CDMA] No need to panic about 'locked' bootloader - HTC listened

novox77 said:

exactly how I feel atm. impulse is telling me to boycott HTC, but things could suddenly turn for the better. And I'm thinking.... someone's gotta take one for the team and leak this engineering build!

Release date of this phone is now taking a backseat to the developments around the current locked/signed constraints. Makes me appreciate my current Evo a little more.

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While it seems like we are the big fish in the pond, we are quite the opposite. Most people will be happy with the stock phone. That's what upsets me. I hope that our community can make a big enough impact to HTC that they handover the RUU. (as I sit dreaming..)

What are the chances of the htc not locking the production model? A lot of the products that I test and use on a daily basis are hardware locked to specific versions because of beta creep issues. Beta creep is when they do radical changes in code/hardware in beta that directly effects testing products. Happens in all major product releases.

EarlyMon said:

I've copied an edited version of your post to here.

Does Google have the push to disallow rooting now?

Google Movies Blocked on Rooted Devices

Maybe this has nothing at all do with carriers or phone makers protecting their intellectual property.

Maybe this all has to do with the strong arm of the MPAA and that wonder fail, DRM - defective by design.

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Google has been more "open" than others so I would suspect this has everything to do with the MPAA. And they wonder why pirating is so popular.

I've come to base my purchase decision on the availability of root/ROMs so I won't be buying the Evo 3D until something is available.

RiverOfIce said:

What are the chances of the htc not locking the production model? A lot of the products that I test and use on a daily basis are hardware locked to specific versions because of beta creep issues. Beta creep is when they do radical changes in code/hardware in beta that directly effects testing products. Happens in all major product releases.

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Very interesting.

If the production Sensation units in people's hands in Europe are afflicted, then that's the HTC decision.

If not - then this is as you say - yet another tempest in a teacup gone wrong.

RiverOfIce said:

What are the chances of the htc not locking the production model? A lot of the products that I test and use on a daily basis are hardware locked to specific versions because of beta creep issues. Beta creep is when they do radical changes in code/hardware in beta that directly effects testing products. Happens in all major product releases.

Click to expand...

I'd certainly like to think so, and it would make some sense, so here's to hoping...but not holding my breath.

EarlyMon said:

Very interesting.

If the production Sensation units in people's hands in Europe are afflicted, then that's the HTC decision.

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I've been looking for this a bit, but haven't found anything concrete. Seems like with the trickle out effect that's going on, we may not know for a bit yet...unless I misread when the first storm rolled through about this and that was the production version.

Ouch. Locked down /system and /recovery?

Oy vey. If they're doing this to cut down on the number of fraudulent warranty replacements due to root/ROM attempts, I guess this is the easiest/most effective way. I guess they want to try to ride out that storm and hope people settle down. I wonder if HTC will go the route of Moto and throw the carriers out in front of the bus. By saying their bootloaders are unlockable, but at carrier discretion, and try to absolve themselves of modders' ire. Edit: I guess this would be confirmed/debunked depending on European phone bootloaders. Time will tell, I guess.

Again, assuming this is to cut down on 'bricked' phones. I really doubt HTC takes much, if anything, of a hit on RMA returns. In fact, I bet they make a profit. How many 'bricked' phones just need a re-flash of OEM software? Probably the vast majority of them. How long does that take? About 10-20 mins? Then another 10 to box it up and do some paperwork. A RMA worker could probably fix 2 phones an hour if they're motivated. So 1 hour of pay (probably not all that much for the guy who reflashes phones) and some shipping to sell 2 phones at refurbished prices.

Sprint/VZW/ATT should have their own RMA depot try to reflash phones first. But meh, I'm not in charge. Hell, they could train store employees how to reflash, or make a program that does it for them and all they got to do is punch in the make/model number. Make the customer wait the 10-20 minutes it takes to try that. If it fixes it, hand the phone back. Minimal cost to Sprint or any other carrier. Besides, isn't reflashing what Evo owners basically do to restore their 'bricked' Evos? (I know they're not truly bricked, but that term is used very loosely). I've had to reflash my DX with the stock OTA image plenty of times. It's no big deal.

I am pretty disheartened by this news. HTC helped pioneer Android as a whole from the beginning and now it is turning its back on the community that loves it the most, you know, the development community.

I was definitely going to get a Sprint HTC EVO 3D, but now I am weighing my options against it and waiting for something else that will not be so locked down. I REALLY hope that the bootloader and NAND on the Sprint HTC EVO 3D can be unlocked, but at this point, it is looking really unlikely.

This makes me hope that google will give the next nexus phone to Sprint. The signed/encrypted bootloader and recovery makes me not want this phone even though the specs are awesome.

This appears to be a very calculated "risk" by HTC. They had to know that people were going to be unhappy, and decided to do it anyway. Just have to hope that they see some negative impact due to it sooner rather than later, and that it's large enough to make a difference.

Just a quick (slightly OT) thanks to Early for adding that depreciation notice at the top. I've been seeing this thread linked all over (especially on the HTC facebook page where they're just getting roasted by former fans), so nice that people who are hitting it for the first time see that right away and know that the information in the OP isn't necessarily as accurate as it was when written.

In a thread that Early just locked, someone asked for email addresses so they could email HTC and show the outrage against this issue, here is a link

http://androidforums.com/htc-hero-sprint/82877-reach-htc-executives-via-email.html#post782085

One more to add that I saw on SU:

Brent Groome, Chief Executive-Customer Operations, brent.groome@htcinc.net

deltatko said:

In a thread that Early just locked, someone asked for email addresses so they could email HTC and show the outrage against this issue, here is a link

http://androidforums.com/htc-hero-sprint/82877-reach-htc-executives-via-email.html#post782085

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Good find. I knew I saw them somewhere, but I have been through about five or six website about this news and did not feel like sifting through them again.

I hope that some of the HTC officials will listen to their customers. This is a pretty big issue, at least for the development community.

novox77 said:

Well, some slightly good news. It appears that /system is not signed. Check out the screenie:

the list of files on the left.... images that are signed say "signed" in the filename: hboot*, boot*, recovery*. But system is just system.img.

So... at least we can still install busybox, bash, customize the bootanimation, remove crapware, etc.


other notable difference is that the hboot file name shows "signedbyaa." Wonder if that implies a difference in signatures between HBOOT and the rest. encrypted signature on bootloader, but unencrypted for the rest?

Click to expand...

If we are able to achieve root and remove crapware and do the little tweeks that are needed to make android great, i might consider getting this phone again.

root will be able to be achieved, just no custom roms,kernels,recovery.

I haven't read this whole thread but I figured this info needed to be here. Anyone who is as pissed as I am about this, you can voice your opinions using the following info (and please share it with everyone):

Express your feelings by contacting HTC.

Mark_Baker@htc.com Senior Director Enterprise Business Unit Americas
Cher_Wang@htc.com Chairman
John_Wang@htc.com Chief Marketing Officer, HTC Corporation
Keith_Nowak@htc.com Senior Public Relations Manager at HTC 425-679-5328
Fred_Liu@htc.com COO of HTC
HT_Cho@htc.com Board Member of HTC
Peter_Chou@htc.com CEO
Lotus_Chan@htc.com VP HTC
Horace_Luke@htc.com Chief Innovation Officer

Brent Groome, Chief Executive-Customer Operations, at 843-369-8393 or brent.groome@htcinc.net

HTC Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/HTC

Petition:
HTC Bootloaders and NAND | groubal complaints

Lotus_Chan@htc.com VP HTC didn't work.

Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 550 550 Relaying mail to lotus_chan@htc.com is not allowed (state 14).


But my emails to the rest of them went through.

Edit: Just got another one back:

Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 550 550 Relaying mail to mark_baker@htc.com is not allowed (state 14).

It really isn't that big of a risk for Sprint/HTC if no one takes legal action. Unfortunately we don't make up that big of a dent in sales. I know I'm still buying one even if it can't be rooted and I too am a little upset at that fact. Here is a rage comic I made to visualize my point.


(mod note - NSFW - press show button at your discretion)

These will be the people that buy this phone.

Confirmed: EVO 3D’s Bootloader, Recovery, and Kernel Images All Locked Down | Android News, Reviews, Apps, Games, Phones, Tablets, Tips, Mods, Videos, Tutorials - Android Police

Is this not a valid reason to think that HTC is considering encryption?

I'd love to get a Evo 3D but taking a measured approach on this one.

If /system is accessible (unsigned) though... that just means we cant customize UI and installed cooked ROMs, but still load apps that require super user and such after root yes?

If that's the case, it wouldn't be so bad as cooked roms, IMO, are largely a manifestation of abandoned hardware; a reaction to fragmentation. But this phone should be pretty well supported through at least a couple major sw revisions, I would think anyway.

If I can install SU apps, (wireless tether, SMB File sharing, PAW Server, Root Explorer, etc.), and remove /system bloat, I will be a happy camper, more or less. If not, I may just get the Galaxy S 2.

Anyone confirm (or deny) what I'm saying?

LOl ^^^

Not to get completely off topic, but I feel about this, the same way I do about xcom, reimaged by 2kforums. (basicly an bioshock ripoff.)

I think this sums up my opinion of the whole thing.

Just replace htc evo 3d with xcom and you get the point.

YouTube - ‪X-Com Reboot in 5 Seconds‬‏

How does this news affect tethering? Would I still be able to use PDANet?

hakujin said:

Confirmed: EVO 3D’s Bootloader, Recovery, and Kernel Images All Locked Down | Android News, Reviews, Apps, Games, Phones, Tablets, Tips, Mods, Videos, Tutorials - Android Police

Is this not a valid reason to think that HTC is considering encryption?

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Yep - that was our starting point, earlier page.

Since then novox77 has been ferreting out further details - that short blurb only tells a little of the story so far.

yutaka731 said:

How does this news affect tethering? Would I still be able to use PDANet?

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Welcome to the forums!

PDANet does not require root access, so no effect.

Thanks for the welcome and the quick reply!

EarlyMon said:

Welcome to the forums!

PDANet does not require root access, so no effect.

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I thought rooting was not the issue, just custom ROMs, Kernels, NAND backups (not really necessary if no flashing), and Recoveries. Is this an inaccurate assessment?

If I can root and install apps that require superuser, then I'm good. Can do all the pruning of bloatware manually via ADB Shell or Root Explorer. Sense won't bother me so much if the hw is beefed up to support it, as the case w/ Evo 3D.

Despite this, HTC is clearly being short sighted on this one. While in these cases, companies can usually make the argument that the customer who wants this is in the extreme minority, I don't believe that to be the case for one simple reason. If you look at the Android App store online, the top #2 paid apps is ROM Manager. This app would be worthless on the Evo 3D. Hmmmm HTC. :/

novox77 said:

Well, some slightly good news. It appears that /system is not signed. Check out the screenie:

the list of files on the left.... images that are signed say "signed" in the filename: hboot*, boot*, recovery*. But system is just system.img.

So... at least we can still install busybox, bash, customize the bootanimation, remove crapware, etc.


other notable difference is that the hboot file name shows "signedbyaa." Wonder if that implies a difference in signatures between HBOOT and the rest. encrypted signature on bootloader, but unencrypted for the rest?

Click to expand...

This is good for me. I just want superuser access.