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Obama Care Yet Again

Please forgive me, but the health care systems in place in other, far off lands is not applicable to this thread. Not sure if it is my place as the OP to complain, but forget the UK and talk about this country.

Sorry to be a futz nubbin, but it can be difficult to discuss the issue if we bring up other systems.

Bob

The UK has a socialist system - no one here is suggesting thats practical for any US state

What we are discussing is an insurance based Universal Healthcare system

I have no ideas about the wavers, the media over here gave Obamacare about ten mins of coverage in the last two years
 
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They don't need to take over it
The system would involve the government regulating Insurance companies and subsidizing premiums
The Private hospitals and Insurers would still be there

As others have pointed out, its in Insurers interests to prevent giving care
Do you not see how the US is paying triple what it should be for its getting
I know most western European have enough doctors, even if they get 3/5ths the pay

This will slash spending by 70%?
Given that you should be paying about $2200 per person for what you gget yet you pay over $7200

Who else will fix it?
The public can't without the government
The Insurers luuuurv the current system
The medical professionals enjoy their oversized pay cheques

Cut spending to the bone. Curtail non-essential military actions. Enact economically effective trade measures.Focus on domestic economic growth. Pay down debt.
Restore US rating to AAA.
This is what will benefit the people of America, this is the only sure road to an eventual health care reform.
Not obama care, not Euro socialized medicine.
 
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So, from your perch on the Emerald Isle you can tell us that we will receive the exact same level of quality health care for $2200/person that we do for $7200/person?

Quick run next door and see if you can catch obama; tell him you have it all figured out.
According to rankings, they get better care
Part of it is lower wages and drug costs, a lot of it is greater efficiency and less bureaucracy

As I keep saying, the UKs socialist system would be unsuited to the US ....
 
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According to rankings, they get better care
Part of it is lower wages and drug costs, a lot of it is greater efficiency and less bureaucracy

As I keep saying, the UKs socialist system would be unsuited to the US ....

Shite! I didn't get it changed in time. I apologize for this post, upon re-read it came across as uncivil and that was not my intention. I edited to a more positive approach but not in time. Apologies if you found my tone unfriendly; this is a subject of some import to us all.
 
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Cut spending to the bone. Curtail non-essential military actions. Enact economically effective trade measures.Focus on domestic economic growth. Pay down debt.
Restore US rating to AAA.
This is what will benefit the people of America, this is the only sure road to an eventual health care reform.
Not obama care, not Euro socialized medicine.
I was talking about slashing healthcare spending by 30%
Only the UK as far as I'm aware has a universal socialized medical system in Western Europe so I don't get where Euro comes from
 
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Shite! I didn't get it changed in time. I apologize for this post, upon re-read it came across as uncivil and that was not my intention. I edited to a more positive approach but not in time. Apologies if you found my tone unfriendly; this is a subject of some import to us all.

no problem, replied to your edited post
 
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I was talking about slashing healthcare spending by 30%
Only the UK as far as I'm aware has a universal socialized medical system in Western Europe so I don't get where Euro comes from

Sorry, substitute "any non-US country" for Euro.
Obamacare does NOT slash US governemtn spending by 30%. Just the opposite.
US right now has to go back to our fiscally conservative, small government days where every citizen pulls his weight so we can pay off our massive debt.
This is not the time for the US to be taking on the largest public assistance program since food stamps; just the opposite. If the President wants to impact health care spending immediately he can lead an effort to limit malpractice law suit awards.

If and when the US is in a position to consider changing the health care system it must be done bi-laterally after much debate and careful study, not ram-rodded through by a weak president who can't build a consensus even when he has a majority in House and Senate.
 
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Sorry, substitute "any non-US country" for Euro.

but that's even more incorrect
hardly any states have socialist system lol

Obamacare does NOT slash US governemtn spending by 30%. Just the opposite.
no never said it does
Obamacare is shit
Still an improvement which is really worrying

I meant 70% cut in healthcare spending PPP per person (individual and government), as 30% of the current spend is what you should be paying for the state of US healthcare

if the President wants to impact health care spending immediately he can lead an effort to limit malpractice law suit awards.

2% of spending dude

If and when the US is in a position to consider changing the health care system it must be done bi-laterally after much debate and careful study, not ram-rodded through by a weak president who can't build a consensus even when he has a majority in House and Senate.
the thing is that none of the Republicans and a quarter of the Dems don't support Universal Healthcare so your are all screwed
 
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Please Read.
These figures are all only a Google away but these nice people have compiled them into s fancy colourful chart
This is why the US healthcare system sucks, with cited sources. Unfortunately I can't insert a TIMG, but the wall of text to explain it would take up this much space anyway.

Medical-Costs-2.jpg


And a comparison of costs between 6 other first world nations that feature some form of UHC.

99j2j.jpg
 
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the thing is that none of the Republicans and a quarter of the Dems don't support Universal Healthcare so your are all screwed

Appreciate your concern but don't you worry about us. We have our in-house troubles but will take care of them; always have and always will.

Been good chatting with you. Don't know what time it is in your beautiful part of the world but here in Arizona it is the best time of the day, happy hour, and I'm on my way.
Cheers.
 
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Obamacare does NOT slash US governemtn spending by 30%. Just the opposite.

"Obamacare" is corporate / political spin: the legislation was written by thousands of health insurance and other lobbyists to protect their own interests. You could have put a telephone book with "Health Care" written on the cover in magic marker on his desk and Obama would have signed it.

A single payer system would slash health care spending 30% or more by eliminating the profit and overhead of insurers, reducing costs to providers who would no longer have to complete obfuscating paperwork requirements for dozens of different insurers and an increase in public health due to preventative and better care, among other things.

US right now has to go back to our fiscally conservative, small government days where every citizen pulls his weight so we can pay off our massive debt.

Our massive debt is the combination of a number of things, but primarily

  • continuing wars for corporate profit ($3 trillion to date)
  • the Bush Tax Cuts ($2.8 trillion to date, enacted during wartime!)
  • the inability to collect any tax on hugely profitable corporations like GE ($15 billion in profits in 2010 should have provided over $5 billion in tax revenue, instead they received government subsidies of $3 billion)
  • the $5-6-7-8 trillion (pick one) Wall Street / bank / mortgage / insurance / auto bailouts.

If we had a more responsive regulatory government that wasn't in the pocket of big business the bailouts wouldn't have been necessary ...

This is not the time for the US to be taking on the largest public assistance program since food stamps; just the opposite. If the President wants to impact health care spending immediately he can lead an effort to limit malpractice law suit awards.

The largest public assistance program in history was the New Deal. It got us out of the First Great Depression and it's reenactment is exactly what we need now. Crumbling infrastructure, ancient utility grid, environmental disasters, all desperately need attention and could provide jobs for millions while leading us forward into the new millennium.

Instead we keep cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations. We've been doing that for for decades and look at where it got us. Eliminate government spending and you might as well move to China and get a job in a coal mine.

Small government is not necessarily the ideal, a government that is responsive to the needs of its citizens - rather than corporations - is. The SEC had 2 investigators watching Wall Street. That's a good example of how small government doesn't work.

If and when the US is in a position to consider changing the health care system it must be done bi-laterally after much debate and careful study, not ram-rodded through by a weak president who can't build a consensus even when he has a majority in House and Senate.

We are in that position, but the corporate interests that control Washington don't want it to happen. Bilateral legislation is what we already got, written by lobbyists and thier stooges (congressmen).

Watch Vermont, they are on the road to a single payer system that may very well end the choke hold private insurance has on our citizens and our economy.
 
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A single payer system would slash health care spending 30% or more by eliminating the profit and overhead of insurers, reducing costs to providers who would no longer have to complete obfuscating paperwork requirements for dozens of different insurers and an increase in public health due to preventative and better care, among other things.

single payer is a bad thing, no competition, prices go up
if they dont then you run into them not paying fair prices, and doctors not working with them


Our massive debt is the combination of a number of things, but primarily

  • continuing wars for corporate profit ($3 trillion to date)
  • the Bush Tax Cuts ($2.8 trillion to date, enacted during wartime!)
  • the inability to collect any tax on hugely profitable corporations like GE ($15 billion in profits in 2010 should have provided over $5 billion in tax revenue, instead they received government subsidies of $3 billion)
  • the $5-6-7-8 trillion (pick one) Wall Street / bank / mortgage / insurance / auto bailouts.
on ge, read this The truth about GE's tax bill - Fortune Features
they did pay taxes. the refund reported was a reporter not knowing all the facts. the subsidies are called write offs, the government does not give ge money. corporations are allowed to deduct business expenses such as research and dev. corporations are in it for a profit, if not then they would either close down or be called government

If we had a more responsive regulatory government that wasn't in the pocket of big business the bailouts wouldn't have been necessary ...


The largest public assistance program in history was the New Deal. It got us out of the First Great Depression and it's reenactment is exactly what we need now. Crumbling infrastructure, ancient utility grid, environmental disasters, all desperately need attention and could provide jobs for millions while leading us forward into the new millennium.

economists are beginning to re-exam the new deal and the great depression. they believe now in some circles that the new deal extended the great depression by interfering with the natural order of business

Instead we keep cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations. We've been doing that for for decades and look at where it got us. Eliminate government spending and you might as well move to China and get a job in a coal mine.
we are cutting taxes for everyone, not just the rich
what we need to do is get rid of the current tax system and go something simplier, no deductions, but lower rates. or replace it with the fair tax. the current tax code is too large and allows to many loops holes


Small government is not necessarily the ideal, a government that is responsive to the needs of its citizens - rather than corporations - is. The SEC had 2 investigators watching Wall Street. That's a good example of how small government doesn't work.
no thats an example of stupidity (or goverment as normal) its the SECs job to watch wall street. they failed to do it properly. how large is the SEC? and why could they onlyspare 2 investigators?

We are in that position, but the corporate interests that control Washington don't want it to happen. Bilateral legislation is what we already got, written by lobbyists and thier stooges (congressmen).
its special intereests that control DC, corp or otherwises
get rid of the environmentalist, allow new power plants, drilling, ect
heck you cant even build wind farms without people yelling about it killing birds or some thing. fine build nukes, build coal, what ever, just build it


Watch Vermont, they are on the road to a single payer system that may very well end the choke hold private insurance has on our citizens and our economy.
uuummmm yeah ok. thats what mass thought too
 
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Wow.
You are truly immersed in propaganda.
That's actually quite sad :(


not really, i dislike any regulation, or anything that increases the size of government

people say insurance companies have red tape. ever try and get the government of any level to do anything? they invented red tape.
the only difference now is you will have multi levels.

i see nothing good coming from this
 
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nope, comes from dealing with various government agencies over the years

heck to build a simple dock for a boat takes 4 gov agency approvals, 6 months or more in time, and lotsa cash

There is good reason for dock building regulation
dealing with 4 government agencies is ludicrous tho

However if you think regulation has no use, more and more competition is fantastic, small government is best, universal healthcare is bad... then you must be blinded by propaganda or failed every maths test since you were 7
 
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There is good reason for dock building regulation
dealing with 4 government agencies is ludicrous tho

However if you think regulation has no use, more and more competition is fantastic, small government is best, universal healthcare is bad... then you must be blinded by propaganda or failed every maths test since you were 7


but that's what happens when regulation grows out of control

competition is good for consumers. as long as there is a demand for the products. high supply by many companies prices go down
high supply by 1 company, they set the price, simple economics

there are exceptions to this rule, price collusion being one, or input costs for the final product.

but im never gonna convince you and your never going to convince me
its an impasse

i just hope when all this is over that the us gets bailed out by someone like whats happening in europe

how many is it so far? Greece? Portugal? Ireland that i have heard about
 
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but that's what happens when regulation grows out of control
but that does not mean regulation
You can see the damage lack of regulation causes in the US when you look at Finance or Healthcare
competition is good for consumers. as long as there is a demand for the products. high supply by many companies prices go down
high supply by 1 company, they set the price, simple economics
competition is great, but with too much competition everyone loses

but im never gonna convince you and your never going to convince me
its an impasse
if you made reasoned arguments instead of claiming 7000 is less than 3000 and 7th is better than 2nd you may convince someone
i just hope when all this is over that the us gets bailed out by someone like whats happening in europe

how many is it so far? Greece? Portugal? Ireland that i have heard about
Portugal, Ireland and Greece have been bailed out
In Portugal, the government did not work hard enough in the Noughties, and many of the ex Communist EU countries surpassed it

In Ireland, an unregulated financial sector have led to massive public debt, Libertarian taxing and lunatic spending led to a huge deficit.

In Greece, people live Waaaay above there means and the middle class Dodge tax. Reckon they'll default
 
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even if it costs you half then if you payed yourself and you got better care. lol

i doubt that will happen, cost may go down, but so will the level of care and the availability to doctors

low taxes on income and assets
the tax base was destroyed

this brings up another question
what is an appropriate tax rate.
and why cant governments live within the means they set for themselves?

my opinion is anything over 1/3 of your income in total taxes is too much, no matter how much you make
that 1/3 is property tax, sales tax, income tax, ect ect
 
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