Help Battery life and battery management

Putty said:

I must say I have never...never turned my 3G off. The 4G, off all the time. Here's my problem...I have a 4g phone that I have to turn the 4g off and even the 3G in order to get good batt life. To me, that is unacceptable. The verdict here is that batt technology has not caught up to phone tech. I did the screen brightness, always on, sbc kernel, etc and my 4g is horrid! Granted I have apps on that are checking constantly, but I am in a position in my life where I need informed I have an email, right away.
Also, I find it hard to compare an iPhone to these androids. My 3GS would go an entire day and into the next with the same level of use...no problem. Is 18+ hrs possible..totally, but to get that, I have to basically not use my phone the way I need to.
The fact that this was the biggest complaint with the 4g, htc should have used a 2500 battery...lol. There should be a no question difference...just my .02

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Apples to oranges my friend.


How is turning off internet when your not using it unacceptable? Is turning off your car when your not using it unacceptable? lol you guys with this battery life sucks crap. With a widget its takes nothing to turn it on and off when I want.

Now with a GB AOSP ROM I don't even turn my internet on and off and I still get excellent life.

EarlyMon said:

According to the ITU, the standards body that decides which G is what, yes. You can find wags still calling it 2.5 - but it's 3G.

It's simply a data rate calculated at 1 times radio frequency, whereas updates after that performing multiplexing tricks got a faster data stream through that same frequency.



No power benefit, it's a matter of what the radio hardware and firmware will support, and again, that's a matter of implementation. Your radio supports 3G as either 1x or EVDO, the way to get any power benefit is turn off that radio.

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Yeah, makes sense. If there was any battery benefit it would be very minimal and may actually reduce battery life since it would take a given radio longer to download a given chunk of data.

2strokenut said:

Apples to oranges my friend.


How is turning off internet when your not using it unacceptable? Is turning off your car when your not using it unacceptable? lol you guys with this battery life sucks crap. With a widget its takes nothing to turn it on and off when I want.

Now with a GB AOSP ROM I don't even turn my internet on and off and I still get excellent life.

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Say what you want, dude...the batt life on the 4g is horrible...period, simple as that. It's been noted by HTC as well as by most end users, so if you use your phone lightly and get great results, don't make us that heavily use our phones out to be whiners...it sucks...no other way to slice it.
Also, turning my car off when I am not using it has absolutely nothing to do with this and quite frankly is a terrible analogy...

Putty said:

Say what you want, dude...the batt life on the 4g is horrible...period, simple as that. It's been noted by HTC as well as by most end users, so if you use your phone lightly and get great results, don't make us that heavily use our phones out to be whiners...it sucks...no other way to slice it.
Also, turning my car off when I am not using it has absolutely nothing to do with this and quite frankly is a terrible analogy...

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Just because you keep repeating the same ol crap doesn't make it true. Your just wrong. You proved it by mentioning battery life on an Iphone 3gs. A much lower resolution phone, smaller screen, no true multitasking, etc of course its going to have decent life.

You don't like to hear it but your just whining. Its no worse or better than any other high end big screen android phone. Do you have the battery graph app? It would be interesting to see what it looks like.

Putty said:

Say what you want, dude...the batt life on the 4g is horrible...period, simple as that. It's been noted by HTC as well as by most end users, so if you use your phone lightly and get great results, don't make us that heavily use our phones out to be whiners...it sucks...no other way to slice it.
Also, turning my car off when I am not using it has absolutely nothing to do with this and quite frankly is a terrible analogy...

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based on what YOU say, you would have to be crazy to own a device like the EVO... why do you? trolling?

Putty said:

Say what you want, dude...the batt life on the 4g is horrible...period, simple as that. It's been noted by HTC as well as by most end users, so if you use your phone lightly and get great results, don't make us that heavily use our phones out to be whiners...it sucks...no other way to slice it.
Also, turning my car off when I am not using it has absolutely nothing to do with this and quite frankly is a terrible analogy...

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Have you never fixed your battery issues with root? Stock evo when first released was lucky to get 8 hrs batt life. rooted mine has been able to get from 12-36 hrs depending on radios, kernel and uc. I have had no issues with my evo dying and batt life doesnt affect me bc i know it will be able to be fixed with root. some people will say, "why buy a phone with a battery life problem?" and i say first, reviews with the 3vo battery say about 14 hrs which is a LOT better than the 4g. yes it does have a bigger battery, but once root is obtained i dont see why 48 hrs wont be obtainable. So imho no big deal.

I mentioned this earlier: without a standard way to measure usage, no one has the right to "call BS" on someone else's battery life.

The fact is, some people get really bad battery life, and some people get really good battery life. On this one device, the Evo 4G.

The fact is, some functions of the phone drain a lot more battery than others.

The fact is, we all require different amounts of those features.

The fact is, our perception of usage is based on the time we get to use the features we need.

For some, tips to save battery life are not applicable because it's too much of a sacrifice for the features they want/need.

HOWEVER, if one makes the claim that 3G uses "too much" battery, I challenge someone to find a phone that DOESN'T use that amount of power on 3G. I maintain it's not an Android issue because I've personally seen the same rate of drain on all iPhones. For some features, it's a matter of setting expectations of how much power is needed. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch (thanks, EarlyMon).

Totally agreed that smartphone tech has leapfrogged battery tech, and we really need to catch up on the battery front. In the meantime, the battery limitation is not for a single device. It's a universal problem, not an Evo problem.

wake69 said:

Have you never fixed your battery issues with root? Stock evo when first released was lucky to get 8 hrs batt life. rooted mine has been able to get from 12-36 hrs depending on radios, kernel and uc. I have had no issues with my evo dying and batt life doesnt affect me bc i know it will be able to be fixed with root. some people will say, "why buy a phone with a battery life problem?" and i say first, reviews with the 3vo battery say about 14 hrs which is a LOT better than the 4g. yes it does have a bigger battery, but once root is obtained i dont see why 48 hrs wont be obtainable. So imho no big deal.

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This is what you people dont seem to get. The casual user doesnt know a damn thing about rooting their phone and flashing kernels just to get through the day and neither should they have to. Like I said, Apple figured out how to improve their battery life and the 3G/3Gs had some of the worst battery life out there. They knew it was an issue for their customers and they solved the problem. That's just the bottom line.

wake69 said:

Have you never fixed your battery issues with root? Stock evo when first released was lucky to get 8 hrs batt life.

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This is exactly my point!!!! That's unacceptable, yet I'm called a troll. Also, why must I root to fix something that could be fixed directly from HTC. My mom has a Droid X and the batt is far better, so let's not pretend it's not possible with a similar phone. If the argument here is "root your phone", that's ridiculous...!
I'm far from a troll, I've flashed every rom I could think of...baked kernels, kings, netarchys, sbcs, etc hunting a solution for this phone. My name is known on xda for assisting devs with various development things...doesn't change the fact the batt life SUCKS!

Putty said:

This is exactly my point!!!! That's unacceptable, yet I'm called a troll. Also, why must I root to fix something that could be fixed directly from HTC. My mom has a Droid X and the batt is far better, so let's not pretend it's not possible with a similar phone. If the argument here is "root your phone", that's ridiculous...!
I'm far from a troll, I've flashed every rom I could think of...baked kernels, kings, netarchys, sbcs, etc hunting a solution for this phone. My name is known on xda for assisting devs with various development things...doesn't change the fact the batt life SUCKS!

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Ok so let's agree that right out of the box the Evo gets terrible battery life and that the average user doesn't know about rooting or tweaking and that they shouldn't have to do all of that. Agreed. What I said earlier is I, me personally, have great battery life with my battery management tweaks so I can expect the same or better on the 3VO. I think what people are asking you Putty is, according to your profile you are rooted, so how are you still getting terrible battery life? Yes HTC needs to address their battery issues, again I am not arguing that.

Why do people love to bring up the iPhone? First, the iPhone was only on a GSM carrier until the iPhone dropped on Verizon. CDMA requires more battery power than GSM technology hence CDMA devices tend to have superior call quality compared to GSM. Third work countries use GSM technology. Advanced countries will have GSM and CDMA. Korea I believe is primarily CDMA.
iPhones don't multitask like Android and I have seen lots of battery complaints about the battery life on iPhones as well. iPhones don't run flash. Multitasking, CDMA, flash, and bigger screen equals more battery power used period.

Putty said:

Also, why must I root to fix something that could be fixed directly from HTC. My mom has a Droid X and the batt is far better, so let's not pretend it's not possible with a similar phone.

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Ok.

Can we all - meaning not just you - all calm down here some?

Yes? Thanks you.

Putty - the nature of manufacturing process for computer chips dictates how much power they will draw. The smaller the process, the less power is needed.

The Evo when released in 2010 was using an older computer chip manufacturing process for the major chips - the DX chips were using the more modern process.

The Evo's big chips were made with what we call a 65 nm process - the DX chips were made at 45 nm.

That alone results in a HUGE power use difference.

If you can find the right rom and flash and configure the Evo and DX the exact same way and use them both identically, the DX is still going to blow the Evo out of the water on battery life.

On the HTC phones this year, they've stepped up their game in most areas and it really shows. (Our Evo Shift isn't rooted, everything but 4G and BT are on all the time, and it's got your basic regular user whacking away at it all the time - and the battery life on it smokes my rooted Evo. I mean, no way are we talking screen size difference here - I mean the Shift is full of babbling Sense eye candy and it just _smokes_ the Evo on battery life. It uses 45 nm process chips.)

The 3vo will have the same improvements at the chip making level (leading to better battery life) that the Shift, DX and Sammies had - except for the 4G radio chips. If the 3vo schematic is correct (and it must be, it was for the FCC), that's the same 65 nm chip we had in the Evo. But the big one - the processor - is at 45 nm.

Please trust me on this, I know - I work in the chip industry in R&D.

^I was waiting for the 65nm vs. 45 nm info to come out reading this thread...lol

So, sometimes something as simple as that can make a difference in better battery life with everything else being somewhat equal.

Wait til it gets down to what, 28nm - 20nm? Maybe we wont have the battery life debates anymore. Then again, the phone manufactures will put holagram displays on phones by then...or something that seems to negate the possible better battery life.

Concerning the thread title....battery life didnt break the EVO last year. It was in the top 5 phones sold last year. Lil issues among many phones last year didnt really hurt sales of that phone. No antenna issue, no screen lifting off issues, no bootloader issues,, etc.

With the Galaxy S line selling so many phones last year, with all the better specs, it didnt crack the top 5 in phones sold. iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, EVO, Droid X and Incredible. Amazing thing....two supposedly big ass phones, and 2 phones that supposedly many users complained about battery life...still in the top 5. The only thing battery life will make or break for the EVO 3D is ppl that had an EVO and possibly want better battery life than that, maybe.

Vs. the pros of the EVO 3D tho..or any phone....its all about the cons you can live with...

The top 5 phones info I'm getting from this:

http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_110428.html

Unless I'm reading it wrong. If thats supposed to be for this year only...that says even more about the EVO and battery life not breaking the phone.

sikclown said:

I think what people are asking you Putty is, according to your profile you are rooted, so how are you still getting terrible battery life?.

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To be honest, I don't know. I stopped installing apps I don't use. It has to be things like k9 mail, 3G, kakoa talk and handcent. These things I use consistently.
I will say when the sbc kernels surfaced, my batt life was amazing. What I found with them though was it would sit on 100% for over an hour, but once you began to use the phone, it drained pretty rapidly. Am I experiencing side effects of using sbc, maybe...I dunno. What I do know is if I didn't have a charger at work and car, my phone would be dead before a work day was over, while rooted. I use wifi at home and work...never use 4g, in a 4g city.
Honestly, I guess it doesn't really matter anymore, I will have my 3vo at 8am on Friday. I will give it a thorough test period and determine whether to keep it. 3d means nothing to me..my main purpose to upgrade is dual core and battery life.

novox77 said:

When a reviewer says that this doesn't qualify as good battery life, the problem is that they have an inaccurate expectation of how much power 3G requires. It's that simple.

If you leave an iPhone 3G, 3Gs, 4 on 3G all the time, you have to charge it every day. Same with my Evo.

If your expectation is a 2-day phone, surely you don't need 3G while you are asleep? Android has apps that allow you to schedule your toggles. You can have 3G auto-shut off and on based on time, location, etc.

And you can use wifi during the day and night as well, which nets you a MUCH faster transfer rate and MUCH improved power consumption. Why WOULDN'T you use wifi where available...

3G draining battery (along with 4G draining battery) is only a problem for people who expect a 2-day phone with 3G always on.

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Wait - just to clarify... you're saying that a professional electronics reviewer has an inaccurate expectation of a product? If not them, then who?

There is no reason on this planet why having to disable standard features (3G specifically) on a phone should be a normal practice to enable a decent amount of usage. I'm sorry, I love android, and will very likely never buy an iPhone (despit very high Mac usage), but if you take a step back and just think about what's being said - it's kind of unreasonable.

Devices are made to be USED, not to just be there in case you WANT to you use them.

It's great that you're willing to stand up for the 3vo, but usually when there's smoke there's fire - and in this case if a lot of people are rumbling about the battery life, maybe there really is something a bit underwhelming about it.

Halfbaked said:

Why do people love to bring up the iPhone? First, the iPhone was only on a GSM carrier until the iPhone dropped on Verizon. CDMA requires more battery power than GSM technology hence CDMA devices tend to have superior call quality compared to GSM. Third work countries use GSM technology. Advanced countries will have GSM and CDMA. Korea I believe is primarily CDMA.
iPhones don't multitask like Android and I have seen lots of battery complaints about the battery life on iPhones as well. iPhones don't run flash. Multitasking, CDMA, flash, and bigger screen equals more battery power used period.

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No one brought up the iphone recently, we are talking about battery, and if someone said iphone that is fine. why must you troll and start fights

wolfus said:

Wait - just to clarify... you're saying that a professional electronics reviewer has an inaccurate expectation of a product? If not them, then who?

There is no reason on this planet why having to disable standard features (3G specifically) on a phone should be a normal practice to enable a decent amount of usage. I'm sorry, I love android, and will very likely never buy an iPhone (despit very high Mac usage), but if you take a step back and just think about what's being said - it's kind of unreasonable.

Devices are made to be USED, not to just be there in case you WANT to you use them.

It's great that you're willing to stand up for the 3vo, but usually when there's smoke there's fire - and in this case if a lot of people are rumbling about the battery life, maybe there really is something a bit underwhelming about it.

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Since you asked for clarification:

I never assume that just because someone gets paid to do something (a professional) they they are smart, or think things through. If not them, who? I trust myself. I don't expect you to trust me, since I'm just another talking head on the Interwebs. But I trust myself because I know I have the intelligence to research things myself, experiment, tinker, and get the most out of my phone.

I have said in numerous posts around here (and can prove what I say) that keeping 3G on for ANY phone results in a significant decrease in battery life. Therefore, I'm not standing up for the Evo 3D, my existing Evo 4G, or my wife's iPhone. Don't assume I'm a fanboy of the Evo 3D just because I have a gripe with a given review of a phone I'm considering. If call quality is confirmed bad by myself, I'm skipping this phone.

My point is that lots of people, including reviewers (and I think you) think that a smartphone ought to have good battery life with 3G always on. Nothing wrong with high expectations. But why stop there? I'd like a phone that lasts 10 days too with all my radios on. Wouldn't that be nice? Someday it might happen. (no sarcasm)

But the problem is that our battery technology is not there yet. And it's because of THIS limitation (which again applies to all devices) that I feel the need to manage my 3G radio. And I prefer Android because there are TONS of tools to do so. Over on the iOS side, it's impossible even with jailbreak to create hardware profiles (like Tasker). So, if you love Android, why not use some of the features that make Android (the OS, not the hardware) so great?

If I can turn my Evo 4G into a 3-day phone, why would I believe any of these "professional" reviewers that the phone must be charged once a night? Not that they are lying; they just don't know how to use a smartphone in a smart way. And they aren't educating the masses that read the reviews.

If they want to be fair and comprehensive, they should also test out true standby time, which is how long a phone lasts with just voice radio enabled. My Evo 4G lasts around 6 days. I'd call that outstanding battery life if I didn't need to use any data. That slaughters any flip phone I used to own.

Not sure why you referenced the iPhone (any version), because I've owned (indirectly through wife and close family) the 3G, 3Gs, and 4, and they ALL suffer from "poor" battery life with 3G on. Search the Apple/iPhone forums. Tons of battery life gripes with 3G, GPS, and a bunch of other things that we sometimes think are Android-specific. Yet I'm sure you'll find "professional" reviewers who rave about great battery life on the iPhones. See why I don't put much stock in these so-called professionals?

And this sentence of yours puzzles me:

Devices are made to be USED, not to just be there in case you WANT to you use them.

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The last thing I want is for my device to be doing work (and thereby consuming power) when I don't need it. The phone was built to serve MY needs. It was not built to do a lot of work to show off to itself that it can do a lot of work. Not really sure what you really meant. If the implication is that shutting off 3G means nerfing the phone, this is has been addressed ad nauseam around here.

Just because I have a light in my kitchen doesn't mean I have to keep it on all day simply because the light was built to be USED. This is the mentality with 3G that I'm trying to address.

Putty said:

To be honest, I don't know. I stopped installing apps I don't use. It has to be things like k9 mail, 3G, kakoa talk and handcent. These things I use consistently.
I will say when the sbc kernels surfaced, my batt life was amazing. What I found with them though was it would sit on 100% for over an hour, but once you began to use the phone, it drained pretty rapidly. Am I experiencing side effects of using sbc, maybe...I dunno. What I do know is if I didn't have a charger at work and car, my phone would be dead before a work day was over, while rooted. I use wifi at home and work...never use 4g, in a 4g city.
Honestly, I guess it doesn't really matter anymore, I will have my 3vo at 8am on Friday. I will give it a thorough test period and determine whether to keep it. 3d means nothing to me..my main purpose to upgrade is dual core and battery life.

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So odd. Everyone I know who has rooted gets ridiculously good battery life. I will ask them what rom they use etc. Well I do honestly hope you have better luck with the 3vo but (not being sarcastic or flip here) I don't think it will be any better of an experience for you.

I went back thru and re-read a few of the reviews... most of the reviewers seemed to have focused on the 4G battery life.

For those that did evaluate the 3G battery life the consensus seems to be that it will last for a full day of medium to heavy usage. Which is quite a bit better than the Evo 4G. Most reviews of the 4G said that you could get thru a whole day of light usage at best (when stock).

I'll admit I'm a bit disappointed with the battery life claims so far since I expected the Evo 3D to have class leading battery since the sensation was deemed to handle a ful day of medium to heavy usage with a smaller battery.

My minimum requirements for a smartphone is that it handle a day of medium to heavy usage so it sounds like it will meet my needs but I was hoping for more.

Side note: do any 4G phones get good battery life if the 4G radio is left running all day?

The WiMAX SoC in the 3vo is made with a 65 nm process and is the same as the Evo - so - I'd expect no change from that part. The reviews are showing longer life in 4G than on an Evo, no doubt due to the other power-saving features (dual core and 45 nm 8660).

I think the other problem with expectations and mentality around 3G is that it's starting to become "old tech," and therefore we should have figured out "by now" how to get it running efficiently.

Just think back when 3G was novel: wow, now you can do data with phones, and it's really really "fast!"

But the tradeoff was huge battery drains. Endless complaints about how the phone dies so fast (daily charging needed) with 3G on. Flip phones were still lasting 3-4 days without charge. What was the solution then? Don't turn on 3G if you don't need it.

Now we have 4G. Much faster and an even bigger drain. But that doesn't mean we ever solved the 3G problems. If we can't get 3G to use less power, then we need to get more power into our batteries, and preferably keep the battery the same size.

That's the technological challenge that faces us. Sure, we can use a 10,000mAh battery, but it will make your phone an inch thick That's not the solution. But if we can get that 10,000mAh battery down to the size of the current stock battery and not have heat issues, we'd be enjoying some pretty awesome battery life with no sacrifice to form.

Just leaving 3G radio on with the newer (45 nm) phones isn't a huge drain unless going in and out of signal area or using services that insist on taking over.

One thing that can suck power on 3G is push-email and other similar services such as instant messaging apps. Change to pull mail (HTC Mail), and keep IM services off when not in use.

novox77 said:

Since you asked for clarification:

I never assume that just because someone gets paid to do something (a professional) they they are smart, or think things through. If not them, who? I trust myself. I don't expect you to trust me, since I'm just another talking head on the Interwebs. But I trust myself because I know I have the intelligence to research things myself, experiment, tinker, and get the most out of my phone.

I have said in numerous posts around here (and can prove what I say) that keeping 3G on for ANY phone results in a significant decrease in battery life. Therefore, I'm not standing up for the Evo 3D, my existing Evo 4G, or my wife's iPhone. Don't assume I'm a fanboy of the Evo 3D just because I have a gripe with a given review of a phone I'm considering. If call quality is confirmed bad by myself, I'm skipping this phone.

My point is that lots of people, including reviewers (and I think you) think that a smartphone ought to have good battery life with 3G always on. Nothing wrong with high expectations. But why stop there? I'd like a phone that lasts 10 days too with all my radios on. Wouldn't that be nice? Someday it might happen. (no sarcasm)

But the problem is that our battery technology is not there yet. And it's because of THIS limitation (which again applies to all devices) that I feel the need to manage my 3G radio. And I prefer Android because there are TONS of tools to do so. Over on the iOS side, it's impossible even with jailbreak to create hardware profiles (like Tasker). So, if you love Android, why not use some of the features that make Android (the OS, not the hardware) so great?

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I guess the point that I was trying to make is that I think that reviewers are in a position to express expectations, because they touch a lot of devices and can generally be able to determine which areas of a device need more attention or that exhibit notable innovation.

You're right - having a battery that last 10 days would be great... but for me, just having one that can work all day would suffice. I correspond to and from multiple email accounts, manage several company facebook & twitter accounts and just don't have the luxury of being at a desk or even in an office very often. That means that I use a smartphone as my main form of communication, instead of a computer. To me, ten days would be a luxury - one full day seems a bit less ambitious.

novox77 said:

Not sure why you referenced the iPhone (any version)

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I was mostly just trying to illustrate that I'm not bashing the platform, probably wasn't necessary.

novox77 said:

And this sentence of yours puzzles me:

wolfus said:

Devices are made to be USED, not to just be there in case you WANT to you use them.

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The last thing I want is for my device to be doing work (and thereby consuming power) when I don't need it. The phone was built to serve MY needs. It was not built to do a lot of work to show off to itself that it can do a lot of work. Not really sure what you really meant.

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But I do want it to be doing work, I don't want it to just sit there - that would meet MY needs.

Until then, you're right - the battery technology is the main culprit. Still, some devices have done a better job than others. I just want to make sure that I choose the right one. So far, what I hear concerns me about this one - but I'll have to see more before truly deciding.

For the record, I'm all for the customization of any phone - and will probably root as I do now.

wolfus said:

I correspond to and from multiple email accounts, manage several company facebook & twitter accounts and just don't have the luxury of being at a desk or even in an office very often. That means that I use a smartphone as my main form of communication, instead of a computer.

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I would think that with your usage profile, you should be able to get a full day (charge at bedtime nightly). I have 1 exchange and two POP accounts set up on my phone. Exchange is set to push; the POPs are set to 5-min pulls. I get about 100 emails on the exchange server a day and about 20 emails on the two POP accounts. Can't say that email is a major drainer for me.

I'm also on conference calls about an hour a day on my phone. This IS a big drainer and there's no config that can improve this. I lose about 15% during that hour.

For FB and twitter, if you have widgets set up to give you live updates, that's going to hurt battery. But if you're going to the app/website to check/update, you should save a LOT more juice.

And of course, if you can get away with doing some of this under wifi, you'll last a day for sure. But I know not everyone has the luxury of a dedicated hotspot for some period of the day.

Personally, I leave my screen brightness on auto, but it sounds like you have to interact with the phone a lot more than me. Not sure if you're willing to sacrifice screen brightness, but keeping it at 40% made a little difference.

Just curious, what are some of the other new/upcoming phones you've heard have good battery life (or comparably better life)?

wolfus said:

But I do want it to be doing work, I don't want it to just sit there - that would meet MY needs.

Until then, you're right - the battery technology is the main culprit. Still, some devices have done a better job than others. I just want to make sure that I choose the right one. So far, what I hear concerns me about this one - but I'll have to see more before truly deciding.

For the record, I'm all for the customization of any phone - and will probably root as I do now.

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I think that whichever phone you choose, you're a good candidate for a spare battery.

I like the combo packs they sell where the spare has its own charger. I've used the heck out of that sort of setup when my work and comm needs outlasted the battery.

I've done that since the feature phone days - nothing supports us power users like a spare battery.