Here they go again...

Easilyamused said:

The real problem here is the US Patent and Trademark Office issuing these broad, ridiculous patents. The office is apparently run by idiots who are, in the broader scheme of things, undermining free enterprise and supporting an Apple monopoly where we, the consumers are the major losers.

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I agree. Saw an article recently saying Apple won a patent for using NFC for travel purposes. And that's about as detailed as it got. So, if Google puts a driver's license in Google wallet (as they are planning) and does anything with it over NFC, that would be a patent violation.

ylexot said:

I agree. Saw an article recently saying Apple won a patent for using NFC for travel purposes. And that's about as detailed as it got. So, if Google puts a driver's license in Google wallet (as they are planning) and does anything with it over NFC, that would be a patent violation.

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I saw an article also on that. Apple was basically trying to patent anything and everything they could at that time.

I also noticed this article recently on NFC hacks. I prefer my credit card information on a real credit thanks.

Android, Nokia smartphone security toppled by Near Field Communication hack | Ars Technica

ylexot said:

I'm kinda like that too. However, I told the wife that she could get a Mac, but she'd get no tech support for it from me. She'd be on her own to get it to do anything.

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Made me chuckle.

How ruthless would you be if she tried to call your bluff?

I actually wanted my wife to get an iPhone.. She went out on her own and bought an Android with no input from me. Love that girl!

does anyone know what parts of the Andriod OS google has patented if any?

davoid said:

Made me chuckle.

How ruthless would you be if she tried to call your bluff?

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Tough to say. She now has an HP laptop, a Nexus 7, and an S3.

ylexot said:

I'm kinda like that too. However, I told the wife that she could get a Mac, but she'd get no tech support for it from me. She'd be on her own to get it to do anything.

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There isn't anything she'd have to get it to do once she plugs it in and turns it on. Macs aren't complicated at all. I spent countless years using windows and the only learning curve when I switched to Mac was to not think of it as windows.

According to various tech news sites, Samsung is threatening to sue Apple if they release an LTE iPhone 5. What are your thoughts on this?

dlee1001 said:

According to various tech news sites, Samsung is threatening to sue Apple if they release an LTE iPhone 5. What are your thoughts on this?

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That's an interesting thing right there. I mean if Samsung does indeed own alot of patents that deal with LTE, then I can't really see a court laughing at them. But what about HTC, Moto, and Nokia using LTE? I myself hope Apple gets a dose of they're own medicine.

SUroot said:

Thats an outlandish statement. How do you know she is not a hospital administrator deciding to go ahead and replace that ancient MRI scanner thats producing diagnostically unsound imagery? That tech decision saves lives

Between that and "ooh shiny shiny" I know which is the better decision

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Hmmmm.....lets ask her husband....

is there any ways that us "consumers" can help samsung?

Wisenos said:

is there any ways that us "consumers" can help samsung?

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they don't need your help...they are a greedy corporation just like the rest of them...the biggest mistake you can make is to fall into blind brand loyalty, and thinking that somehow one corp is better or more honorable than the next...don't think for a second if the roles were reversed that Samsung wouldn't have filed the suits...

ScandaLeX said:

There isn't anything she'd have to get it to do once she plugs it in and turns it on. Macs aren't complicated at all. I spent countless years using windows and the only learning curve when I switched to Mac was to not think of it as windows.

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That's funny. Every time I am forced to use a Mac, I'm tearing my hair out in frustration within a couple minutes. They simply do not work the way I think. If they work for you, that's great. Don't presume to know what is right for someone else.

I am currently using an iPhone 4. As of next week I will be an happy owner of a Samsung Galaxy S3

ylexot said:

That's funny. Every time I am forced to use a Mac, I'm tearing my hair out in frustration within a couple minutes. They simply do not work the way I think. If they work for you, that's great. Don't presume to know what is right for someone else.

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Then maybe you should stick to windows.
And no where in my reply did I say I knew what was right for someone else. I can't be held responsible if you chose to take it that way.

hbryder said:

Not sure what they have patented but i do know that it was said one of the reasons for buying motorola was the patents they had.

I also read that samsung was planning on an new suit if Apple's new phone had lte?

With all the fights over patents, Imagine if anti-lock breaks, power steering, fuel injection, and any other advancement in the auto industry had such a lock on patents. There would be one auto maker. I quess that is what apple wants. No competition!

Btw, does anyone remember when google search engine was introduced? Was it before apple put universal search on their phones? Can't anyone do anything to stop this mess???

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Imagine if Ford was the only car manufacturer allowed to make cars. Would we still be driving those cars from the 1900s, like the Model T?

I admire Google's action of buying Motorola to protect Android. I also admire Samsung's statements in the lawsuits about all the litigation and injunctions limiting consumer choice. They are both on the ball.

Regarding your last question, Google's search engine was launched in September 15, 1997, according to http://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whois_nic=google.com&type=domain. Apple's iPhone was launched in 2007, but it was only after iOS 3.0 was released in June 2009 when they implemented universal search, though Siri also implements it when the iPhone 4S was released.

So Google's search engine was introduced waaaaayyyyy before iOS 3.0, which is when universal search existed for its iPhone and iPod touch line of iDevices. 11 years and 9 months, to be exact.

A patent on universal search?

Rastaman-FB said:

fact is this, the american law will side with apple as it is an american company and if they fear its industry is getting harmed then it will do what it can to protect is as it is bringing in billions upon billions of revinue and if that revinue stream shrinks then it affects america directly

corrupt as it may seem, this is why they hired a jury forman to corrupt the case

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At least Samsung has build billion dollar factories in the US "the chips that Samsung sells to Apple are build in these factories", how many factories does Apple have in the US. Does Apple really think by these childish lawsuits they will hurt Samsung, do any of you people realize how big Samsung is. The market eventually will level off, and Apples overpriced stock will come back to reality "Facebook" anyone, just an example. The only way this company has build up all those huge cash reserves is by underpaying their employees "cheap china slave labor". And don't get me started on the horrible US tax code "they have been manipulating it for years", that they are taking advantage of, makes you wonder how many politicians are getting greased by Apple and all those big corporations. While you and me "the regular folk" get greased. Don't you just love BIG government, same mistakes happened to the Roman empire, man never learns, greed is good, LOL

regardless of apple throwing a lawsuit against samsung, i don't seeing this affecting Us as consumers anyway..... think about how many people already own the samsung galaxy s3, im sure it a big number. what are they going to do make us turn our phones in for another phone?? HAAAAAA. i own 3 apple ipods... and thats it. as for my tablet use its android tablet, and for my phone use i will continue with using android related phones. and my s3 isn't going anywhere.

Most i see apple being able to do with this lawsuit is just make samsung pay another big amount of money to them and tell samsung to cease and desist on copying what ever it is they claim samsung is copying.....

cybertec69 said:

At least Samsung has build billion dollar factories in the US "the chips that Samsung sells to Apple are build in these factories", how many factories does Apple have in the US. Does Apple really think by these childish lawsuits they will hurt Samsung, do any of you people realize how big Samsung is. The market eventually will level off, and Apples overpriced stock will come back to reality "Facebook" anyone, just an example. The only way this company has build up all those huge cash reserves is by underpaying their employees "cheap china slave labor". And don't get me started on the horrible US tax code "they have been manipulating it for years", that they are taking advantage of, makes you wonder how many politicians are getting greased by Apple and all those big corporations. While you and me "the regular folk" get greased. Don't you just love BIG government, same mistakes happened to the Roman empire, man never learns, greed is good, LOL

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Yea I remember seeing that article not long ago how Apple has ~$70 Billion sitting in offshore accounts and in other countries with low taxes. This way Apple does not have to pay American taxes when bringing their money into the U.S.

What an American company huh?

sherlock5545 said:

They won in America, so the ban is for the USA, for those who live anywhere else, it doesn't change much.

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Move to the UK. We have the best beer in the world and hot women too.

Metfanant said:

they don't need your help...they are a greedy corporation just like the rest of them...the biggest mistake you can make is to fall into blind brand loyalty, and thinking that somehow one corp is better or more honorable than the next...don't think for a second if the roles were reversed that Samsung wouldn't have filed the suits...

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While I certainly agree with you regarding blind brand loyalty, I would respectully disagree in regards to corporations. While I am not disillusioned in believing they are not motivated by profit, business ethics certainly mean more to some than others.

The tech business has always been about copying to some degree (and to a lesser extent, what business isn't?) but for the most part almost all the big corporations have gone by the "live and let live" motto unless someone directly stole another's IP. Sure, they may have threatened to file suit or evan may have actually done so, but reasonable cross licensing agreements have generally been the goal. With Apple v Samsung it's been different. Apple's intent was never to gain some sort of equitable agreement. It's always been more "personal" than that.. There's certainly much to write about there, but that would take way too long. Suffice to say Apple only made offers so ridiculous there was no way in hell Samsung would agree.

Apple has taken this to new heights by somehow manipulating the Patent and Trademark Office to first award patents based on a very broad interpretation of "look" and "feel"... it's like patenting the feeling of warmth from the sun on a beautiful day.. then manipulated those ridiculous patents to try and block out competition.

Apple has rarely innovated on its own; they have taken things invented by other companies, then combined and marketed them in a certain way and claimed it as their own. It's like they took chocolate cake, added an ingredient or two from another source, the sued anyone who makes a chocolate cakes regardless of what the ingredients are or the method they employed to achieve the finished product.

They have in my opinion abused patent laws and taken patent infringment lawsuits to an entirely new level.

They are also not above stealing or directly copying in the same manner to which they are accusing others, and there will certainly be retaliations from other companies for their recent actions (Google via Motorola is but one example).

While I can't immediately think of any reasons to hold any corporations in high regards, I can certainly think of many reasons to believe they are not at all equal when it comes to business practices or ethics.

Disclaimer:
1) I am not a supporter of either company. I support technology and product that is in my opinion the most value for money. That's why I bought S2 for myself and S3 for my father.
2) Everything here is only a PERSONAL opinion based on what I have read. I am only an engineer and not a lawyer or part of telecommunication industry. So my opinion is also not a professional opinion.

General issues:
1) I believe the jury made a terrible mistake and they did not understand the scope of their works as well as what they could have done for the sake of consumers.
2) The jury was not allowed to award punitive damages. The damage should be estimated from real losses. That's why Apple and Samsung tried do hard to give a value to their patents. For example how much a consumer is willing to pay for the bounce back feature.

My thoughts on Apple patents:
1) Shape: I don't believe this should be patentable. Although the jury cannot invalidate patents, they could have said that the patent should have not been given and back that up by not giving any damages. Although Samsung did copy and the Galaxy S did really look like the iPhone, some punitive damages could be awarded, but that should be by the judge.
2) Icons: This patent should never have been allowed and you can't copy general icons.
3) Touch screen with pinch back, zoom, etc. This patent should also not have been allowed due to prior art.
4) Bounce back: Apple was the first to do something like this, so yes I guess the patent is valid. It was never obvious until they did it. However, how much would any reasonable person pay for something like this? Would a phone be of lower value even without it? So for me even if the patent is valid, there is no measurable real loss. Samsung can be punished punitively but again that's for the judge.

My thoughts on Samsung patents:
1) Apple actually didn't argue no infringement only the price. Although Samsung needed top prove a reasonable price which I don't think they did. They cannot charge apple more than they charge others and need to show how much other people willing to pay for it. So I guess the jury also couldn't really give any damage for this. But the judge probably could.

IPad issue:
1) Why didn't the jury award this when the judge already said Samsung copied? Because shape wasn't patented. However there is an issue of trade dress. About something that is so famous there is Measure of protection anyway. If apple didn't patent their logo, it would still be protected. So if Samsung copied, then there should also be punitive damage by the judge.

Conclusion:
The jury should have taken the opportunity to kick the patent office a little instead of just saying Samsung copied and punish them. Because although Samsung copied and infringe patents, some patents should never have been awarded in the first place. I also believe the jury tried to punish Samsung punitively and that should never have happened. I know the jury cannot play patent office and invalidate patents, but they could have pushed them to change for the better.

berryracer said:

so if they do add them to the ban list. What happens to users who already own them?

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Absolutely nothing. The ban request is on future sales, not previous sales. There's no way any company can take a device you own out of your hands.

The worse that could happen to you is Samsung chooses to rewrite its software to take away a function your device uses in an OTA update. (Like removing "device universal search" on S Voice.) Hence the recommendation to not accept OTA updates.


As for Apple's desire to ban the S3 and Note, it's not going anywhere. They managed to ban the GNexus for about a week in July before Samsung got the Appellate court to overturn Koh's ruling. I doubt she'll be so apt to ban new phones.

I applaud Apple in a blindingly efficient way of promoting a competitor at their expense though. The Apple hate has been on the rise to Samsung's benefit the last couple weeks. I've seen more people than ever vowing to drop their Apple products as a result of the lawsuits.

ylexot said:

That's funny. Every time I am forced to use a Mac, I'm tearing my hair out in frustration within a couple minutes. They simply do not work the way I think. If they work for you, that's great. Don't presume to know what is right for someone else.

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This is me. I keep trying to like Mac OS but it just isn't intrinsically easy for me. I can never find anything and the menus in apps are frequently hidden.

iOS is better only because the entire OS is based on 3rd party apps. It's really just one giant app drawer begging you to go shopping in the iTunes store.