Help Terrible battery life, firmware issue?

Bozzy · Sep 9, 2009

It looks like that conditioning the battery improves life and longevity significantly.

Now ive turned off the APNdroid and getting same % as it was with APNdroid on. Right now im sitting on 50% with 29hrs in. 3G is off wifi is off, and sync is off. When i first got it i was barely getting 24hrs out of with with same settings and alot less usage.

bisanu · Sep 9, 2009

hi guys i am having a problem that i don't know how to fix. i downloaded the newest NPS from samsung site and i reset my samsung data to defaults and i still cannot get to nps recognize galaxy. any ideas? do i need to register or sth. i can upload music and other stuff but i cannot update software

damuffinman · Sep 10, 2009

Aight said:
Any update on that?

Managed to squeeze 14 hours off the phone before it died. I did a write of my test over at my blog, i7500 World

akanbi · Sep 11, 2009

Posted this on the new H8 firmware thread, but thought people subscribed to this thread would be interested.

So after a couple of days with the new firmware I can definitely say the battery life is better.

Scenario 1:
- 3G on
- Background data on
- Auto sync on
- WiFi on and off at various times
- 10 to 15 mins calls
- Sent a couple of sms messages
- Regular email checking (when notified)
- 2 hours of listening to music
- 10 to 15 mins of playing Retro defense (great game)

Scenario 1 was over 12 hours and battery went from 100% to 71%.

Scenario 2:
- 3G on
- Background data on
- Auto sync on
- WiFi on
- Left phone overnight

Scenario 2 was over 8 hours and battery went from 84% to 79%.
Previously when I left my phone on overnight it would always be dead by the morning.

Hawklord · Sep 11, 2009

Wow - thanks for that! Makes it sounds like a real phone that one isnt scared of using!!

I just wish samsung/02 would get their act together with an official path for safe/guaranteed updating :thinking:

KlaymenDK · Sep 11, 2009

Hawklord said:
I just wish samsung/02 would get their act together with an official path for safe/guaranteed updating

Yes, it's rather amazing just how unofficially this entire issue is being handled. You'd think a big company like Samsung would have an official portal and how-to for firmware updates.

fastgun · Sep 12, 2009

I got my phone 3-4 days ago, I first used it with H2 firmware, then H7 and now I'm using it with H8.

I think I found the problem with the battery and me, and it seems like it's just my usage behaviour. I kept fully draining the battery before I charged it to see if it performed better with each new firmware. But the thing is, you should NOT fully drain your battery and charge it frequently. As I understand, this way it will achieve its top performance after some time..

Just read this:
How to prolong lithium-based batteries

akanbi · Sep 12, 2009

fastgun said:
I think I found the problem with the battery and me, and it seems like it's just my usage behaviour. I kept fully draining the battery before I charged it to see if it performed better with each new firmware. But the thing is, you should NOT fully drain your battery and charge it frequently. As I understand, this way it will achieve its top performance after some time..

Just read this:
How to prolong lithium-based batteries

Yes I had read that and been topping up my battery rather than fully discharging. It made a difference with the old firmware, but with the new firmware I can use the phone without turning off any features and get 2 days usage.

ZeeToo · Sep 12, 2009

I ran some overnight tests with 3g... No real change compared to GPRS overnight. A drop of 1-2% over around 8hrs..

However I left 3G on when driving about 60 miles... I presume the handoffs killed it as the battery dropped from 80% to 5% after 1hr 20 mins - Ow! Very surprised to see that happen :thinking:

Akanbi - which firmware do you mean by new? H8?

ZeeToo.

Rastaman-FB · Sep 12, 2009

ZeeToo said:
I ran some overnight tests with 3g... No real change compared to GPRS overnight. A drop of 1-2% over around 8hrs..

However I left 3G on when driving about 60 miles... I presume the handoffs killed it as the battery dropped from 80% to 5% after 1hr 20 mins - Ow! Very surprised to see that happen

Akanbi - which firmware do you mean by new? H8?

ZeeToo.

woah, didnt think about handoffs lol next time you do it, turn off 3g and have it in gprs/gsm mode. i wonder if gprs handoffs mess it up aswell

ZeeToo · Sep 12, 2009

There's always a drain when you're switching between base stations...

I think it's worse for things other than GSM.. I know that with old non-smartphones it costs a lot of power (from their tiny batteries) to maintain a GSM presence, I just figure that 3G would be worse as it's a higher power protocol

EDGE would be slightly better I suspect, but even so not a good thing. Interestingly with the APNs nixed on the drive up the battery didn't drop more than a percent or two, but on the way back with the APNs working it killed it

.

The reason it costs you more power is that when you're looking for a base station to connect to you have to send the signal at full strength initially (I believe this is the case) and then it drops the power level down to the amount necessary to actually talk to the base station. If you're constantly moving and switching between base stations you're using a much higher proportion of full power transmissions to low power transmissions.. I'm pretty sure this happens with GSM communications (read it before based on one of the reasons mobiles aren't allowed on planes) and I suspect it happens for 3G also.

ZeeToo.

Rastaman-FB · Sep 12, 2009

ZeeToo said:
There's always a drain when you're switching between base stations...

I think it's worse for things other than GSM.. I know that with old non-smartphones it costs a lot of power (from their tiny batteries) to maintain a GSM presence, I just figure that 3G would be worse as it's a higher power protocol

EDGE would be slightly better I suspect, but even so not a good thing. Interestingly with the APNs nixed on the drive up the battery didn't drop more than a percent or two, but on the way back with the APNs working it killed it .

The reason it costs you more power is that when you're looking for a base station to connect to you have to send the signal at full strength initially (I believe this is the case) and then it drops the power level down to the amount necessary to actually talk to the base station. If you're constantly moving and switching between base stations you're using a much higher proportion of full power transmissions to low power transmissions.. I'm pretty sure this happens with GSM communications (read it before based on one of the reasons mobiles aren't allowed on planes) and I suspect it happens for 3G also.

ZeeToo.

oh i know about that, i work in the industry

thing is it completely slipped my mind. i just wanted to see how much battery it spent with a gprs/edge connection rather than 3g/hsdpa.
my nokia n95 black didnt drop that much when handing over to 3g/hsdpa cells on the move and i used to do 5 hr drives with it etc.

its a bad move to have a smart phone that would need a car charger just to keep it alive on the move rather than when its being used for GPS.
might well rule this phone out for anyone doing more than 3 hrs of travelling each day lol.

ZeeToo · Sep 12, 2009

My apologies, I never know what level of knowledge people have

Yeah, I was pretty surprised that it happened... I don't know if something on my phone was being stupid and trying to use 3G all that time (I don't think so, but can never be sure) or if it was just handover...

Sync was off, but not entirely sure that every other app that might be a git was off too

ZeeToo.

akanbi · Sep 12, 2009

zeetoo said:
akanbii - which firmware do you mean by new? H8?

Zeetoo.

i7500xxih8

Rastaman-FB · Sep 12, 2009

ZeeToo said:
My apologies, I never know what level of knowledge people have

Yeah, I was pretty surprised that it happened... I don't know if something on my phone was being stupid and trying to use 3G all that time (I don't think so, but can never be sure) or if it was just handover...

Sync was off, but not entirely sure that every other app that might be a git was off too

ZeeToo.

ive got a 110 mile round trip tomorrow. lets see what happens

EDIT: dont apologise lol its the internet

Bozzy · Sep 12, 2009

For Li-Ion batteries you have to discharge it fully once or twice to activate as many cells as possible and after that discharge fully once a month. That's my understanding from what i have read around on different articles and my own experiments. I have a laptop 12-cell battery that's going on 4 years now, and it only lost about 10-15 mins of its charge over 4 years

Too bad my motherboard failed the otherday....

ZeeToo · Sep 13, 2009

Bozzy, ouch on the motherboard...

I just had my monitor die on me yesterday

I think you cursed me

ZeeToo.

P.S. I hate coding on a tiny monitor

akanbi · Sep 13, 2009

Bozzy said:
For Li-Ion batteries you have to discharge it fully once or twice to activate as many cells as possible and after that discharge fully once a month. That's my understanding from what i have read around on different articles and my own experiments.

I thought this too until I saw advice on a Vodafone forum from a support guy who said frequent recharges and topping-up the battery are actually better and pointed to this article How to prolong lithium-based batteries (also linked to here).

Some quotes:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A lithium-ion battery provides 300-500 discharge/charge cycles. The battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible. Instead, charge the battery more often or use a larger battery. There is no concern of memory when applying unscheduled charges.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life in a laptop is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns.[/FONT]

KlaymenDK · Sep 13, 2009

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible. Instead, charge the battery more often or use a larger battery.[/FONT]

What cruel joke is this? How can we avoid doing that when the battery is only good for somewhere between half a day and maybe two days if you're hardly using the device?
Give us batteries where a 'partial discharge' corresponds to a realistic amount of time, say twelve hours. That would mean I could go on a weekend trip into the wilderness, instead of staying tethered to the nearest power outlet.

</gripe> :eek:

Rastaman-FB · Sep 13, 2009

Rastaman-FB said:
ive got a 110 mile round trip tomorrow. lets see what happens

EDIT: dont apologise lol its the internet

just got back, can conferm that driving 100 miles and it switching to edge and 3g with the handovers has reduced my battery life by 54%

basically this device is crap at handovers

Bozzy · Sep 13, 2009

ZeeToo said:
Bozzy, ouch on the motherboard...

I just had my monitor die on me yesterday I think you cursed me

ZeeToo.

P.S. I hate coding on a tiny monitor

Ill trade you 19inch monitor for laptop motherboard

I thought this too until I saw advice on a Vodafone forum from a support guy who said frequent recharges and topping-up the battery are actually better and pointed to this article How to prolong lithium-based batteries (also linked to here).

But it is best to discharge it fully once a month to keep as many cells active as possible. Inactive cells start dying out.

Ive always depleted my phones when i first got them and it worked everytime for me. The battery increased dramatically, and i continue to deplete it at least once a month.

That's just from all the different articles i've read on maintaining and conditioning the Li-ion batteries, and my personal experience

Hawklord · Sep 13, 2009

Many thanks dudes for the continuing researches and sharing of results :cool:

Rastaman-FB said:
basically this device is crap at handovers

do we have any comparative stats to back up that this is indeed a galaxy prob rather than an android prob or indeed a generic 3G prob?

Rastaman-FB · Sep 13, 2009

well i used to make similar journeys with my n95 black and my phone would last 2 days (3g/hsdpa attach). this is with it using an audio player.

i travel about 80-100 miles a day commuting to work and my phones generally last over 2 days without charging and constant use for audio

whether or not this is an android or hardware issue i really dont know

it seems that the device is maintaining a pdp context rather than just an attach to speed up the connectivity process. this in itself would be a drain and would be more resource heavy when handing over.
just my thoughts anyways

Hawklord · Sep 14, 2009

Thanks for the thoughts ... sounds wise to me

... behind my Q is really "is this avoidable?" and if so "who do we look to to fix it?" ... sounds like either samsung in a firmware update or android folks ...

... I am not quite sure how the "pressure" works to get manufacturers to fix stuff ... in my case (uk-02) seems to me that due to the whole string of android-samsung-o2 no one party feels completely repsonsible ... 02 sell so many phones if ones a dog then the salesmen just sell something else ... manufacturers keep putting so many new phones out on the market that at some point the temptation is to forget and move on [meanwhile the carrier locks many folks in for 18-24mts OR folks have paid a lot upfront].

ZeeToo · Sep 14, 2009

Cheers for the update Rastaman..

I suspected it might be the case with handoffs... Ahh well, at least that's partially fixable (scheduling the connections, dropping it if we move a lot etc), and the 2.0 version might address this anyway.

Bozzy, ahh well, it's on warranty so should be fixed by the time I get back from hols

ZeeToo.

Help Terrible battery life, firmware issue?

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