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Apple's next iPhone

Let us assume that you are right...and that Samsung "claim" to have shortages of Exynos 5...and thus had to use their competitor's chip.

Who's fault is that? Is it because Samsung rushed GS4 out too soon? Remember, after GS3 introduction last year, Samsung promised us that they won't make the same "mistake" again by increasing production of the next Exynos chip (which is the Exynos 5) to keep up with demand.

Would the media be as kind if Apple had introduced the iP5S two months ago...but half of iP5S will have Qualcomm S600 while the other half has A7. Do you think YOU GUYS would not mock Apple? Do you think Samsung advertisement won't make fun?

(It is also interesting that Apple is the only one that does not make commercials making fun of its competitors. Why isn't anyone praising them for that?)

For a chip manufacturer (and if your claim is correct about supply shortages, which i have my doubts), this is downright embarrassing!! Why repeat the same mistake that you did last year? Samsung designed a chip that is TOO EXPENSIVE and TOO HARD TO MAKE....and the wait for it is not worth it since its performance is NO BETTER than its competitor's 2nd rate chip (S600)...and battery drainage is bad despite BIG.little design! I can't wait till they give us that updated version with 8 cores firing at the same time! :rolleyes:

In contrast, Apple is able to keep up with its supply & demand (significantly more than Samsung)...without a single hiccup. Remember how last year's iPhone 5 initially had some supply issue because the case was too hard to make? Within a month of iP5 intro, this supply line issue resolved...and remained so.

And again, for a chip design/manufacturer, why didn't Samsung see the downfall of A15-Cortex design...like everyone else did (Apple, Qualcomm, NVIDIA)???? No, instead, Samsung went all out on a failed design...and they are still at it till this day!

And IF Exynos 5 was working perfectly, then why the different updates and versions...less than 6 months later????? Anandtech found a flaw in it. And now Korean news are reporting heating issues with their newest Exynos 5420 chip. Coincidentally, this is reflected in Galaxy Note 3 worldwide distribution.

Would media (and Android fans) be so kind if they found out that A7 chip had to be modified repeatedly because of technical issues????

Does this bother anyone at how bias the media is? Some of you guys jump all over Apple yet fail to realize that Samsung (Android's proud child) has major failures of its own.

You don't have to assume anything, you seem to be Googling just fine.

Second - you're continuing to ignore what I said about Qualcomm and you're identifying them as a competitor and you're ignoring that Samsung also makes Qualcomm processors.

Qualcomm is fabless - they don't produce chips, they license designs.

Just like ARM.

Third - I don't know how to put it delicately - you simply don't understand the scale of industrial production involved in chip manufacturing or what challenges are presented for supply and demand.

The SGS2 came in flavors that used *every* major processor SoC supplier.

That's been reduced to 2 - and Samsung has a piece of the action on the second one.

Btw - why does Samsung, a major flash memory supplier and probably #1 in the mobile industry - use Toshiba flash memory in the SGS4?

No one is embarrassed by that.

That's not how the semiconductor and consumer electronics industries work.

You keep using the Ford/Chevy/Foreign model in your manufacturer comparisons and all I can tell you is what I have already - it doesn't work that way. Chips and the accountancy behind them are not the same as Detroitmobiles.

Next - you have no idea whether Apple chips are being modified. You believe that they aren't and you believe that they're without fault.

Finally - yes.

Android sites are biased against Apple. The users and writers are.

I've considered calling the President of the United States and asking him to send in the Marines to fix the problem.

But I'm afraid that he'd tell me that it's exactly the same over in the Apple camp and they're as biased against Android. And they lie out of ignorance as well.

Your problem crossing swords with me is twofold -

First, I don't care and have nothing against Apple. I make fun of them, yes. I make equal fun of everyone else too, especially Google.

I don't believe that the perfect phone exists and I don't think that it can exist. Just the best phone for you or for me at any given time.

Second, I said what I do for a living and I've hinted at who I know. I deal in firsthand facts my friend. I know where the skeletons are in a lot of closets. I don't need the blogosphere for that.

~~~~~~~

Make yourself happy. If you think the new iPhone is all that, buy one.

You'll find plenty of Apple fora where people can't wait to agree with you that we're all biased.

But please - stop talking down to everyone, it's getting old.

Your nickel lectures about what Samsung owners don't know is a slap in the face and it's enough.

We have hundreds of thousands of people on this forum helping each other with their Samsung problems.

And discussing their shortfalls.

In short - go astroturf somewhere else.
 
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Let us assume that you are right...and that Samsung "claim" to have shortages of Exynos 5...and thus had to use their competitor's chip.

Who's fault is that? Is it because Samsung rushed GS4 out too soon? Remember, after GS3 introduction last year, Samsung promised us that they won't make the same "mistake" again by increasing production of the next Exynos chip (which is the Exynos 5) to keep up with demand.

Would the media be as kind if Apple had introduced the iP5S two months ago...but half of iP5S will have Qualcomm S600 while the other half has A7. Do you think YOU GUYS would not mock Apple? Do you think Samsung advertisement won't make fun?

(It is also interesting that Apple is the only one that does not make commercials making fun of its competitors. Why isn't anyone praising them for that?)

For a chip manufacturer (and if your claim is correct about supply shortages, which i have my doubts), this is downright embarrassing!! Why repeat the same mistake that you did last year? Samsung designed a chip that is TOO EXPENSIVE and TOO HARD TO MAKE....and the wait for it is not worth it since its performance is NO BETTER than its competitor's 2nd rate chip (S600)...and battery drainage is bad despite BIG.little design! I can't wait till they give us that updated version with 8 cores firing at the same time! :rolleyes:

In contrast, Apple is able to keep up with its supply & demand (significantly more than Samsung)...without a single hiccup. Remember how last year's iPhone 5 initially had some supply issue because the case was too hard to make? Within a month of iP5 intro, this supply line issue resolved...and remained so.

And again, for a chip design/manufacturer, why didn't Samsung see the downfall of A15-Cortex design...like everyone else did (Apple, Qualcomm, NVIDIA)???? No, instead, Samsung went all out on a failed design...and they are still at it till this day!

And IF Exynos 5 was working perfectly, then why the different updates and versions...less than 6 months later????? Anandtech found a flaw in it. And now Korean news are reporting heating issues with their newest Exynos 5420 chip. Coincidentally, this is reflected in Galaxy Note 3 worldwide distribution.

Would media (and Android fans) be so kind if they found out that A7 chip had to be modified repeatedly because of technical issues????

Does this bother anyone at how bias the media is? Some of you guys jump all over Apple yet fail to realize that Samsung (Android's proud child) has major failures of its own.

Actually the American Media is more biased to Apple. Why would the AMERICAN media be biased to a foreign company compared to American Apple?

Sure there is flaws with every product, that's why we have features on phonearena and gsmarena that allow us to compare phones side by side.

The thing that Apple gets made fun of for is the fact that to them revolutionary design and development is the fact their ipads or phones are 15% larger and 20% lighter and thinner.

It's arrogance more than anything.
 
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Objectivity and fairness out the window just because of that? Little bias? Some here (esp. early in thread) were totally off base with their "understanding" of iPhone 5S.

Nature of the beast. This is a forum, a community of Android users free to speak their minds, not a bastion of journalistic objectivity. As Early said, the other side is no different. People have their opinions, you don't take it as gospel. You take the nuggets of good information along with the silly. If someone posts something you think is uninformed then their next post carries less credibility. You figure out who knows their stuff and who doesn't. No reason to get upset about it.
 
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NVIDIA's latest chip, the Tegra 4, is a 4+1 A15 Cortex.

Tegra 4 Processors | NVIDIA

My mistake...i meant TI...sorry. Brain farct!

Nature of the beast. This is a forum, a community of Android users free to speak their minds, not a bastion of journalistic objectivity. As Early said, the other side is no different. People have their opinions, you don't take it as gospel. You take the nuggets of good information along with the silly. If someone posts something you think is uninformed then their next post carries less credibility. You figure out who knows their stuff and who doesn't. No reason to get upset about it.

Very true.
 
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Has anyone heard how the general public in China has viewed the 5C coming to their country? I figured they wouldn't be to excited about it.

Well, China Mobile apparently has 42 millions iPhone owners already! This is BEFORE iPhone 5S/5C introduction. And this is with people paying full price for it.

I got a feeling that Apple won't go bankrupt anytime soon from lack of iPhone sales in China...and now that Apple has signed on with all the major China carriers, this number (if official) will only increase.
 
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Well, China Mobile apparently has 42 millions iPhone owners already! This is BEFORE iPhone 5S/5C introduction. And this is with people paying full price for it.

I got a feeling that Apple won't go bankrupt anytime soon from lack of iPhone sales in China...and now that Apple has signed on with all the major China carriers, this number (if official) will only increase.

Darn probation prevents me from editing! :D

China Unicom just announced that they have over 100,000 iPhone 5C/5S pre-orders DESPITE them not annoucing their subsidized price! I think that pre-order started this morning in China Unicom.

China Mobile, BTW, does NOT carry iPhones...yet has 42 millions iPhone owners. Apparently, Apple and China Mobile are finalizing their contract. So, with CM on board soon, iPhone sales will be pretty good i think.
 
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I haven't bothered reading the posts in this thread as i would probably get frustrated at some point. I also purposely waited a week to type anything about the Iphone event for the same reason. I think one thing that bothers me the most is all of the "oh its the same as last year's iphone" comments.. Why are those comments still around. The iphone has went through 3 gens now that have followed the same updating scheme? Why are people still shocked and surely no one expects anything differently. Not to mention....how many Droid RAZR' ish phones are out now? Droid RAZR, Droid RAZR Maxx, Droid RAZR HD, Droid RAZR HD Maxx, Droid Ultra...etc....Sammy has done something similar with the S3 and S4 also. They look close to the same.

In the last few months people have complained that Apple isn't innovative anymore and that they're becoming stale....yet when they introduced a "new" style of fingerprint scanner and being the first to x64 bit architecture a lot of people said " oh that is garbage and a wasted effort"...come on people you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I do think the fingerprint thing is "sort of" a gimmick. Although it would be nice to use it instead of frequently putting in my apple id password and also to unlock the phone.

Being x64 bit i think is bigger than most people are willing to admit. Yes i realize now it isn't going to help phones as most phones don't have enough RAM for an x64 bit system to use. Here is the thing though. In 2 years from now i bet phones will have 4 gb or RAM easily. Not to mention tablets. I could see the Ipad's getting that much RAM now. What this does is give the Apple dev community time to get their apps in order for x64 bit. So that when the time comes that the phone "NEEDS" to be x64 then it will be a smooth transition.

As Android users i'm sure you have all experienced a Dev not having his app up to date to work with all the different versions of Android and so on.


I think apples introduction of the polycarbonate (plastic) iphone is a good move as well. It's filling a gap in the market that they needed to.

Will i upgrade my I5 to the I5S. Probably not. I put the GM version of IOS7 on my I5 last week and it's like i have a new phone again. So that will get me by for another year probably.

Again this is just my opinion of the Iphone event. Everyone is entitled to one and as always folks. It's just a phone and whatever works best for your needs then so be it.


One love.
 
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I haven't bothered reading the posts in this thread as i would probably get frustrated at some point. I also purposely waited a week to type anything about the Iphone event for the same reason. I think one thing that bothers me the most is all of the "oh its the same as last year's iphone" comments.. Why are those comments still around.

Same reason that the comments about the SGS4 being much like the SGS3 have been left around.

Everyone looks at effective product changes differently.

I still don't get the point of changing the discussion on the 64-bit initiative into one about needing a 4 GB ram space for mobile computing.

As for more, I agree, you didn't bother to read the posts here. :)
 
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I personally expect the 64-bit architecture to show up before software catches up. Look how long the old Intel processors like the 386 were out before we had any real development in 32 bit software to take advantage of it. You need to actually have the hardware out there to have something to develop applications for. So it doesn't matter that it is not being totally utilized to its fullest as long as it is there to keep the programmers busy and off the streets (they are such a menace when they are running free lol)..
 
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I personally expect the 64-bit architecture to show up before software catches up. Look how long the old Intel processors like the 386 were out before we had any real development in 32 bit software to take advantage of it. You need to actually have the hardware out there to have something to develop applications for. So it doesn't matter that it is not being totally utilized to its fullest as long as it is there to keep the programmers busy and off the streets (they are such a menace when they are running free lol)..

While it won't be immediate, i don't think that Apple will take that long. From earlier post:

"Note also that Apple mentioned "modern instruction set". I suspect that this means that the 64-bit instructions are optimized with the underlying 64-bit hardware. This is different from the Intel world where the performance of the existing x86-64 architecture is severely hindered by the old legacy stuff."

Compiler, kernel, drivers, etc. are all there for developers to use. CHAIR (developer of Infinity Blades) was able to 64-bit code Infinity Blade 3. They felt that A7 was almost 5x faster than A6 (which was no slow poke).

Now, when Samsung comes out with 64-bit chip, is Android software going to be ready by 2014?? This is where i think Apple has an advantage, being able to have total control of both software and hardware.
 
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Well, China Mobile apparently has 42 millions iPhone owners already! This is BEFORE iPhone 5S/5C introduction. And this is with people paying full price for it.

I got a feeling that Apple won't go bankrupt anytime soon from lack of iPhone sales in China...and now that Apple has signed on with all the major China carriers, this number (if official) will only increase.

49 million out of what? 2 billion?
 
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49 million out of what? 2 billion?

Think of it this way...Samsung sold 20 millions GS3 in 100 days worldwide. Remember, we're talking about old iPhone 4/4S on a carrier that does NOT sell iPhones. Just from people buying older iPhones (at full price) on a network that does not sell it.

Now? Most China carriers will carry iPhone 5S/5C. China Mobile will complete the contract soon. You think that Samsung flagship GS4 will outsell iPhone 5S/5C in China?
 
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Most China carriers will carry iPhone 5S/5C. China Mobile will complete the contract soon.

That'll be interesting. There's finally going to be a TD-SCDMA iPhone? -otherwise it'll be GSM/EDGE only service.

You think that Samsung flagship GS4 will outsell iPhone 5S/5C in China?

Maybe, although from what I've seen recently many Chinese seem to like the larger screened phones now. Often around 5 inch, sometimes larger.
 
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That'll be interesting. There's finally going to be a TD-SCDMA iPhone? -otherwise it'll be GSM/EDGE only service.



Maybe, although from what I've seen recently many Chinese seem to like the larger screened phones now. Often around 5 inch, sometimes larger.

I can agree with that. The only off brand androids I see available from China are phablets.
 
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I personally expect the 64-bit architecture to show up before software catches up. Look how long the old Intel processors like the 386 were out before we had any real development in 32 bit software to take advantage of it. You need to actually have the hardware out there to have something to develop applications for. So it doesn't matter that it is not being totally utilized to its fullest as long as it is there to keep the programmers busy and off the streets (they are such a menace when they are running free lol)..

Having 64-bit hardware first is more than a good idea. :)

Don't expect a lot of catch-up in the Android world on the software side.

Most of the apps - we're talking the overwhelming majority by far - are compiled Java bytecode - and - Can a .class file generated using a 32 bit java compiler be used on a 64 bit system with 64 bit JVM? - Stack Overflow
Java byte code is independent from 32/64/... bit systems. That's the main purpose: the compiled code shall be executable on any system, just the virtual machine is compiled for a special system architecture.

In our case, that's the Dalvik Virtual Machine (VM).

Remember -

Android = embedded, real-time Linux + Dalvik VM + apps that run inside the Dalvik and use services provided by the embedded, real-time Linux.

So, first step is creating a 64-bit, embedded, real-time Linux.

OK - that's a compiler switch - 64-bit Linux already exists.

Next - debug/fix kernels for any unintended, non-transportable 32-bit code.

Next - ditto for the Dalvik.

Java-based apps - no change.

Native apps - trickier, but it's the small minority set.

The advantages for Android are yet to be seen. Unlike iOS with nearly all native apps, the only performance differences for Android will come from better services and a better Dalvik.

Provided that the processing hardware is truly superior and not just an increase in data word width.

Is 64-bit better? Yes. No. Depends - on the data being moved and the instructions being processed.

Will it allow for more ram? Yeah - ok. Individual apps at the mercy of 32-bit data words and needing more than 2 GB ram per app _could_ benefit. That'll be a very small count.

Prediction - if some wonks in the gaming community insist that it's needed, the bandwagon will roll and everyone will "need" it.

~~~~~~~~

Will it simpler for the Android world than the Apple world to convert?

From an apps perspective, yes. From a user perspective, yes.

~~~~~~~~

Will it be as important a change for Android as for iOS?

No one really knows that.

The Apple case for it is clear - and sensible for their architecture.

But their architecture is not Android's.

~~~~~~~~

Remember when multicore processors hit?

What did Apple users need to support dual-core?

Brand new apps.

What did Android users need to support dual-core and then quad-core?

Nothing. The app architecture was protected by design and as soon as more cores were added and the kernels updated, apps simply exploited them as if they were written for them.

~~~~~~~~~

Same thing from an app perspective on 64-bit for us.

~~~~~~~~~

I'm glad that Apple users are getting a multitasking update to allow them to enjoy many features we have all along.

Evidently, it made sense for them to update to 64-bit for that at the same time.

In our case, the challenges will remain - increasing processing power (Android is processor-intensive, no doubt about it) but reducing heat and extending battery life.
 
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