Question for people with IT Jobs

I'll tell you how became a programmer.

I was really into computers and everything with the hardware, and I wanted to go into pc repair and all that. But through a mistake I ended up enrolled in a programming course instead. I wasn't interested in it at first, but I stayed with it. Now I love what I do. And I have a higher pay as if I were to have stuck with my original plans.

I got a 2 year degree in Programming and I make decent money. But if thats not what you really want to do, you have to ask yourself what best fits you, what are you most passionate about in the computer? Then answer that by signing up for the classes that match.
You will find that you are more likely to do best with something you really want to do vs something you're doing just to make money.

Hope I could be of assistance to you

I have a 4 year degree myself but after many years in IT I find that many of the best people have no degree at all or have a degree in a totally unrelated field. Get any degree in whatever appeals to you most, but immediately get a part-time job in support, even if it's volunteer work, and see where that leads. You will likely drift into whatever is best for you, and it may be different from what you expect.

Good luck!

I was in a very similar situation as you when I got started in the IT field in my early 30s, with my college behind me. Back then you needed a 4-year degree if you wanted any chance of advancement beyond an entry-level position. From what my friends in IT management are telling me today, a 4-year degree today is worth what a high school diploma used to be good for back when I was your age. You should aim for a 4-year degree, and do your best to get a Master's degree if you want to have a comfortable retirement. And don't wimp out with Arts degrees; Science is the way to go.

If you want to help people as a career, get a degree in psychology, because that's what 90% of corporate tech support actually is. If you're all about contact with people, you might want to consider a career in psychology instead. It pays better. I'm only half kidding.

Getting a job is a valuable thing too, so a plan to get an Associate's degree in Science, then look for an employer who is willing to help pay for your BS degree can work. If you find one and get hired, get right to work on that Bachelor's degree: night school and weekends. The sooner the better.

If you find an employer who won't help with a Bachelor level degree, think twice about taking the job. Two years of study in the sciences is hard enough for a full-time student. Doing it in your spare time is tough, and without the support of (and accountability to) your employer, quitting your studies is way to easy.

If you can afford to, commit to a 4-year school, and look for a part-time job as a student IT tech. That will give you the experience for your resume in a better environment for study.

When it comes to a Master's level degree, think about where you want to be in five and ten years. You say that you're light on programming but good with people, so moving up to management after you "pay your dues" might be the career path for you. If you struggle with the coding and/or math during your BS studies, going for a MBA or some other non technical Master's degree will offer you a good path to advancement and a good income, in case you start a family (I hear these things happen ).

Feel free to ask about anything.

Dieben said:

I have a 4 year degree myself but after many years in IT I find that many of the best people have no degree at all or have a degree in a totally unrelated field. Get any degree in whatever appeals to you most, but immediately get a part-time job in support, even if it's volunteer work, and see where that leads. You will likely drift into whatever is best for you, and it may be different from what you expect.

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Although it's possible to be successful in a professional field with no degree, a great amount of luck is usually involved. People told me stuff like that when I was fresh out of high school and really didn't want to go straight into college. I took a couple of years to live life, and decided not to risk it.

I never intended to be in IT, and I didn't get an IT degree. But I've found is that the mere fact that I worked to get a "serious" Bachelor level degree was enough to get me jobs in things I wasn't specifically trained for.

But in a job market with so many people with long resumes competing for the same jobs as kids fresh out of college, getting some kind of edge for the resume is important.

Speed Daemon said:

. . . in a job market with so many people with long resumes competing for the same jobs as kids fresh out of college, getting some kind of edge for the resume is important.

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Most jobs go to insiders already working there and doing a good job, not to people who are only resumes. Yes, show that you can get a degree, but your chances are better if you start working now, prove yourself, and be right there at hand when opportunities arise (in my humble opinion as former Manager of Engineering Recruiting yrr one of the major semlconductor companies)

Dieben said:

Most jobs go to insiders already working there and doing a good job, not to people who are only resumes. Yes, show that you can get a degree, but it's more important to start working now, prove yourself, and be right there at hand when opportunities arise.

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Therein lies the rub. Getting a job is important, but it takes a BS degree of some sort to even get an interview.

Maybe during the "tech bubble" '90s someone with no credentials could get an entry level job in IT. Not any more.

Just to be clear, a job in a call center that entails reading stock answers from a decision tree program is not an entry level IT job. That kind of job has no path for advancement in IT.

Dieben said:

added later: (in my humble opinion as former Manager of Engineering Recruiting yrr one of the major semlconductor companies)

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Did you really hire people who had nothing but a high school diploma, and spent nearly a decade after high school NOT pursuing higher education?

If you say so, I'll believe you, but I'll be shocked as well.

Can you help me understand the rationale behind a hiring like that?

Speed Daemon said:

Did you really hire people who had nothing but a high school diploma, and spent nearly a decade after high school NOT pursuing higher education?

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We probably wouldn't hire them if they were just another of the 100's of resumes that we received every month. But if they were already hired doing something else and had proved that they were smart, reliable, hard working, fast learners, eager, etc. the managers who knew them might take them on at an entry level as a known quantity, instead of someone with a fancy resume, a lot of education, but little or no work experience. (I have seen some brilliant PhD's fail miserablly when faced with the 10% inspiration, 90% perspiration reality of what real work entails.) But they had to be around, get to know the hiring manager, and show them that they could count on them.

As Woody Allen so aptly observed
"90% of success is just showing up".

As a Senior Engineer and as a low-level manager I would mentor bright, eager, hard-working non-technical people, get them training, gradually give them responsibility, and wish them well when they got a great job elsewhere - they had worked hard for me and they deserved it. I take pride in the 6 or 7 competent techies that I helped create in this way. But it never would have happened if I hadn't already known them.

You have to position your career moves carefully. People who don't know you will usually judge you by what you have done in the past and label you as what you have been in the past. In those cases you have to show how you have learned and changed and grown, what you have accomplished, and how hard you have worked, and now you are ready to evolve and succeed in another new venue.

And as **Speed Daemon** pointed out, NEVER allow yourself to get into a dead end job where there is nothing to learn.


But then this is all just my personal perspective and personal experience. Take that for what it's worth. My best wishes to you.

Regards .... Robert

Stryker395 said:

... I enjoy reading about how people got into this field of work.

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Careers often take unexpected twists and turns.

I didn't intend to get involved in IT. After years of working as an Engineer I ended up recruiting engineers and then ended up being the manager of recruiting. I was working on an MBA and I *hated* it.

So I got a job selling computers for a VAR Value Added Reseller and found that I liked Tech Support. One day our Field Tech Support guy just up and quit. I convinced the boss that I could do the job. The boss trusted me and gave me the job - he didn't even consider anyone else. I turned out to be the best darned Field Tech Support guy you ever saw - and I *loved* it.

I had never done computer networks before, but one of my clients was the IT department at a major railroad where I got into LAN/WAN network support. One day their lead network engineer up and quit. And there I was - and had proven myself. Voila! I was now their Lead Network Engineer.

One of my suppliers was a little company called Hewlett Packard. The HP sales guy really liked me and voila! one day HP needed a Systems Engineer - and it was *me*.

One of my clients was a large network router company. I had never written software before, but the managers there liked me and soon I was earning good bucks there as a Software Engineer.



Other examples of career twists and turns:

My brother-in-law started off studying Civil Engineering but ended up as a world-renowned facial surgeon.

One of my sisters started off studying to be a Veterinarian but ended up being a CPA/CFO.

My college roomate was studying Chemical Engineering but ended up being a jet pilot.

My Dentist was originally an accountant.


So what will YOU be in 10 years?

(disclaimer: I have a BS in Computer Science)
First, you say you're not interested in programming, but have you taken a class in it? I started out in college wanting to so some kind of engineering; I drifted toward nuclear in my spring freshman semester, and as part of the NukE degree was a class in FORTRAN. About halfway through that class I knew that I liked programming way more than thermodynamics and thermochemistry, which is what I had to look forward to as a NukE. I transferred to CS right then and didn't look back.

Second, if you're really not up for programming, there are a lot of positions that are required to truly support a good programming gig that don't write any code. Off the top of my head, at my job, we have program managers (the guys/gals who allocate hours to specific projects), delivery leads (these guys/gals meet with the client, set expectations, communicate the schedule, take the client beatings when things go poorly, etc.), architects (these guys don't code directly but use their knowledge of the code language to design software components that meet the application's requirements), requirements analysts (they drive the clients to clarify what they want, and write system specifications), developers (we actually write the code), tech leads (they're developers that have additional responsibilities, making deployments, configuring build jobs), and testers. I'd say at most only 30% of us write code day in and day out.

There's a lot going on in a software development shop that doesn't involve programming. Those guys/gals do have technical skills, and they may know how to code, but their writing skills, project management skills, and people skills are what the team is counting on.

I'll be honest omw out the door i "skimmed" this thread, but wanted to quickly throw my two cents in. Since your not very interested in programming, and are unsure about your specific degree path...Maybe check out a short term tech school, and get some Certifications under your belt. Most Tech schools do like an 18 month max course and most include A+, Net+, and now w/ addition of Ethical Hacking. During this time you'll hopefully find out what suits you best/what you enjoy most. From a logical point of view though...with all the inside promotions and otherwise outsourced jobs, Network Security is IMO where the jobs/$$$ still available, and will continue to grow. A few months ago google paid a bunch of hackers to test out their beta OS. Some companies want their network protected so tight they will seek out people whom have even been arrested / convicted of any type of computer crime. (No i am not telling you to go learn how to hack into a company and wait for your job offer in jail ;\) With new protocols , hightened security, this field is booming. Either way, strive for something you enjoy, happiness > $$. For an overall Tech saavy guy, A+ cert isn't very difficult, nor is Net+ in my opinion, there is enough material out there to study on your own, or as i mentioned earlier follow the course-load of a more hands on tech school that includes certifications. Ethical Hacking cert is very interesting, might find that right up your alley. Best of luck to you.

I'm currently a full-time student (BS in Software Engineering), and full-time End User Support Analyst. I have no prior experience, but I mostly got the job because I have a relative who is an administrator within the facility. 99.9% of my knowledge is self-taught. In fact, I do not know anyone who works in the IT profession that actually went to school for it, so I find it rather hard to believe that people aren't getting IT jobs because they don't have a BS, MBA, etc. I do know that the job market has been very stiff, but from what I have seen - there are always IT positions available whenever I have randomly searched. Like someone else stated, there's always someone who can appear better on paper, so it is best to do the same for yourself.

Many government funded organizations are *required* to try to hire from within before they are allowed to look outside.

The medical center is one of the largest employers in my hometown. They have a substantial IT staff that hasn't hired a single person from the outside in over 8 years. There was a UNIX network support job that I wanted to apply for but the Human Resources rep told me off the record that even with my strong qualifications and education there was no way that I would even get an interview. The job went to one of their maintenance staff guys who had learned some UNIX and had helped out on some IT projects.

n0ve said:

.... Network Security is IMO where the jobs/$$$ still available, and will continue to grow. A few months ago google paid a bunch of hackers to test out their beta OS. Some companies want their network protected so tight they will seek out people whom have even been arrested / convicted of any type of computer crime. (No i am not telling you to go learn how to hack into a company and wait for your job offer in jail ;\) With new protocols , hightened security, this field is booming. . .

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Very true. Most of the computer security product and services companies employ criminal hackers to test their products. And if you were a company wanting to sell security products or services, mightn't you employ some hackers to create some problems in the world for you to fix?


On the good side of the law/ethics, a few years ago Apple Computer invited me and a dozen or so other computer network pros to one of their facilities in Silicon Valley and challenged us to break through the security in their upcoming release of a new version of their network OS. Within 5 minutes we had Apple's network *DOWN*. Every time they got their network back up we took it down or crippled it a different way. What fun! A dozen techno-weenies in a training room collaborating with security flaws we had found over the years.

Apple called their top developers into the room and they were "sweating bullets" trying to keep their network up heeheehee.
The Techno-Weenies won the battle.
Lunch was provided.

IT is hard work and long hours and can be very frustrating.
But IT can be interesting.
And IT can be fun.

One of my favorite network support incidents occurred on my company's large intra-network:
- 30,000+ computers in
- over 250 offices in
- over 90 countries worldwide

The mainframe corporate billing computer in Atlanta began to repeatedly drop off the network. People had all kinds of theories about what the problem was and how to fix it.

The quarter-million dollar UNIX based Hewlett Packard OpenView worldwide network monitoring system that I had built quickly traced the source of the problem to an improperly configured PC Personal Computer in one of our offices in *Detroit* !! From the SUN workstation on my desk in San Francisco I disconnected that computer in Detroit from our intranet.
Gosh what a feeling of power.
Garsh what satisfaction.

Dieben said:

Careers often take unexpected twists and turns.

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I love this post. It rings so true for me I can't even begin to describe it.

Ahh yes, twists & Turns, AAfter a long career as an IT Developer/ Systems Analyst and Business Analyst/consultant, with my own company. come the early '90s recession that went belly-up. I worked for a big consultancy for 10yrs till they closed the office & restructured a lot of us out. Then I did property development for 3 yrs, retrained as an electrician, did that fr 18months till the banks started going bust with toxic debt. followed by a stint as a courier driver. Now I'm a mature student in my final year of a BS in Computer Security & Forensics. Who knows where I'll be in a couple of years.

Bottom Line: don't try to plan more than a couple of years ahead, the world is changing too quickly for long-term plans to have any real validity.

Nobody here has mentioned anything about database developers/business intelligence. I've been doing this in the healthcare field for the last 15 years. I was around back then doing "big data" when "big data" wasn't a buzzword. The technology is always improving and changing and the applications are endless. I gradually moved myself up with only a bachelors in Information and decision sciences (a field that combined computer science, statistics and business management.) Learn SQL, learn vbnet or c#, learn database design, motivate yourself to learn and understand the details of your employer; putting to use or improving every piece of data it generates in order to transform it into useful, and easily discernable information. Good luck to you in whatever you decide.

Hello and welcome, Robert G.

I find it very difficult to follow what your responses are referring to! It's best to use the 'quote' function when replying to a specific post so others will know what you're referring to. If you want to reply to a bunch of different people's posts, you can do that all at once, i.e., in just one reply. Use the 'multi-quote' button on each post you want to quote, then hit the 'reply' button near the bottom of the screen. Quoting makes replies so much easier to understand.

mwrobe1 said:

Nobody here has mentioned anything about database developers/business intelligence. I've been doing this in the healthcare field for the last 15 years. I was around back then doing "big data" when "big data" wasn't a buzzword....

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Yeah, there is an infinite number of specialties that you can get into. And if you can't.find one you like you can design your own.

For example, my specialty is "Big Networks" - monitoring, controlling, and troubleshooting computer networks so huge that the large volume of monitoring traffic can cause network problems.
- The solution?
- *Distributed* Monitoring !

"IT Job" is a broad description. I have an associates and have been working 9 years (anniversary today actually) in an "IT job". I'm a technical support analyst, all the stuff the help desk can't solve comes to my group and we help the user, we aren't script readers and actually sit on-site with the people we support. It depends on what you consider "entry level".

Yes, you can find employers that will assist with tuition. There are generally requirements to get assistance - mine requires a year of service prior to getting tuition reimbursement and the field of study has to be something the company feels can be beneficial to them when you're done.