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Does Note 3 have ART runtime?

Nikkek

Lurker
Aug 29, 2014
1
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If i buy Note 3 now, and update it to latest firmware available, do i get the "new" ART in developer options? or do i need to use some custom rom or something in order to get that feature?
Also a bonus questions: Will the new Note 4 have ART in developer options or somewhere ready to use right after you unbox it? or is this something that the nexus devices only get, or later when android L is released? :S
Thanks!
 
No, and that's not necessarily a great incentive to hack your phone. Wait until the Android L update and get the non-Beta version of it.

In Android L, Dalvik will be gone and ART will be the only runtime on the device, AFAIK.

ART was only released early in Android 4.4 so that Developers can test their apps on it and get them ready for when Dalvik was phased out. Android L will do this. It's mostly a Compatibility Beta. It isn't as good as the one in L and certainly won't be as good as the one in the Final Version of L.
 
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there have been a few various announcements from carriers and the like that mention

Note 3, S5, and S4 to all get Android L as their last official update. which makes a bit of sense.


also as mentioned - not all apps today are compatible with ART - so even if you moved to it - you might have apps that don't work.
 
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either way, who is to say that the ART runtime will be omitted the same way it was in KitKat and Google issues a similar excuse, stupid as it is, to justify it like it did the lack of the runtime even in their Nexus devices? I would bet given that the Note 3 is last generation, that any L update, especially given TouchWiz will pare down on the stock feaures, including the ART runtime. i'd bet it's still stuck in Dalvik. I wish I could enable it as during the stent I had with the S3, it was improving things ten-fold, and I never encountered an app that didn't work with it, nor the symptoms of what would happen if you tried running an app that didn't support it. it was the only time I saw Android perform as smoothly as an iPhone (especially scrolling webpages, no longer choppy)

I'm running a custom ROM on my N3 and it still lacks the option. makes me angry.
 
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it was the only time I saw Android perform as smoothly as an iPhone (especially scrolling webpages, no longer choppy)

That's interesting that you mentioned specifically Web Browsing, as I wanted to query someone who had some knowledge of the iPhone Web Browsing experience to inform me whether the guy in this video had altered his iPhone in some way for it to behave like it does while Web Browsing.

I would rather a yes or no.

iPhone 5s Web Browsing Lag - Android Vs iOS 7: iPhone 5s Web Browsing Lag - Android Vs iOS 7 - YouTube


Greetings :)
 
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Actually iOS 7 (which is standard fare on the 5S and 5C--in fact they launched with it) is perhaps the worst version ever for performance, battery life, and UI look. it's what made me give up all my Apple products and finally fast-forwarded my move to Android.

It was ugly, it jittered like Gingerbread, appeared to be stuck in the 1970s, looking a lot like a Pan-Am poster art of a desktop, all while changing *nothing* from the 2007 UX design. it's still a grid of icons, otherwise looks the same, but performs horridly, eats up battery, and looks horrendous (in all fairness, a 'good' looking flat design for folks who have been with computers since the '70s without looking like a throwback to that era is hard to accomplish) worse yet, it has redundant options (what exactly is the difference between 'All' and 'Missed' notifications?) and useless gimmickry (parallax? did no one tell them how much of a failure it was on the Zune HD?). the only real add-in is the Android-like quick settings/toggles menu. of course, that could have been done without such a radical change in the looks. if you're going to flatten and clean or modern-ify the UI, at least make some game-changing features to justify it. Windows 8 at least includes some Xbox game support, less memory overhead, Cortana and various other improvements. iOS 7 is simply change for the sake of change, simply saying out loud 'Steve Jobs is dead, finally we can screw up everything that made Apple such a success' or 'hey look, we know how to use Paint!'

A more fair comparison is iOS 6 or 5 compared with ART-enabled KitKat. Jelly Bean pretty much removed most of the lag problem from the general UI, transitions, etc. but scrolling in the browser even in KitKat with Dalvik is still stutter, and seems to have distinctive 'catching up' following one's finger if you scroll fast enough. even faster scrolling makes the entire page become unintelligible and blurry as the browser struggles to display graphics, text, layers as fast as you scroll.

Seeing as ART is conveniently removed from custom ROMs on the Note 3, the only workaround I have is using the S-Pen Air View scrolling feature to hide the stutter, it seems to scroll smoothly, albeit slowly.
 
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either way, who is to say that the ART runtime will be omitted the same way it was in KitKat and Google issues a similar excuse, stupid as it is, to justify it like it did the lack of the runtime even in their Nexus devices? I would bet given that the Note 3 is last generation, that any L update, especially given TouchWiz will pare down on the stock feaures, including the ART runtime. i'd bet it's still stuck in Dalvik. I wish I could enable it as during the stent I had with the S3, it was improving things ten-fold, and I never encountered an app that didn't work with it, nor the symptoms of what would happen if you tried running an app that didn't support it. it was the only time I saw Android perform as smoothly as an iPhone (especially scrolling webpages, no longer choppy)

I'm running a custom ROM on my N3 and it still lacks the option. makes me angry.
There is no Dalvik in Android L, so your question makes no sense. OEMs had the choice to omit ART in KitKat, and some did it to avoid people blaming them for issues that were really the fault of them using an Alpha-level runtime on their devices. The ART in KitKat is not the same as the ART in the Android L Preview which is more a beta, and the one in shipping Android L updates will be a release version that is more finely tuned and developed (i.e. debugged, optimized, etc.).

There is no choice of Dalvik or ART in Android L, so there's no way an OEM like Samsung will ship an update to a device that omits it. The only thing that will be missing in that update, is the Dalvik runtime - completely replaced by ART.

Also, I'm not sure how anyone, anywhere, for whatever reason would insinuate that the Note 3 wouldn't receive Android L, when Samsung has been supporting their flagships for about 2 years since the Galaxy S2...

The Note 3 is likely to receive at least 2 more major updates, Android L and whatever follows it... At the very least.

Also, testing a web browser doesn't really say much for the performance of a platform. Different browsers on Android exhibit different performance levels, on the same device, which is a pretty trivial testament to how worthless such a test is. Just look at the disparity in various web benchmarks between different browsers running on the same exact Android phones. Rendering engines differ. JavaScript engines differ. The engine in Safari is not the same as Chrome or the Samsung Stock browser. Similar, not same.

This is like using a slow graphics library to create a game and then saying Windows sucks for performance, when you could have just used a better graphics library, Lol. The quality of the Rendering Engine says nothing about the platform's general performance. It only speaks to the performance of the Rendering and/or JavaScript engine in that web browser.

However, iOS does have an advantage in that it uses Native Code for most everything. Apps are predominantly native code. The compiler is developed and tuned at the lowest of levels by Apple specifically for their devices and platforms. The frameworks and libraries are very optimized and Apple provides so much API coverage (much more than Google in Android) that developers do not have to "reinvent the wheel" with their own lower-performance code; they just use Apple's APIs. This is often why an app running on different devices can often have a disparity of features across those devices (Camera Apps as a good example).

Performance on iOS is generally almost always faster than on Android, and it's why some Android apps that are also developed on iOS have lower limits than the iOS version (Snapseed can load larger images and crops less when editing larger images, for example). They can handle more while still maintaining a high performance level (and with much less RAM in the device, fewer processing cores, etc.). iOS is extremely optimized - including for power management when you factor in just how TINY those iPhone batteries are, yet they still get battery life comparable to the latest Galaxy S devices with almost twice the battery size.

Google is changing to ART in L, which will increase performance. Using Java was never the *best* choice for a Run Time, but it was the safest choice and the easiest way to get developers onto the platform. It was a compromise they had to make, and they are moving past it in the future. Performance, Memory Management, and Power Management will improve in Android L. Most lag is nothing but stutter, anyways, which isn't the same as lag. A lot of stutter or lag isn't caused by the platform itself, but by the client apps exhibiting the issue.

Chrome on Android has always been pretty terrible. Its saving grace is the Synching of Data to your Google Account and across devices/form factors. If not for that, I don't think anyone would ever use it in lieu of Samsung/HTC/LG's Stock Browser.

Dalvik JITs the code when it's loaded. By the time you're looking at a webpage, Dalvik has already JITed the code from bytecode to machine code, so if you think switching to ART will magically make your web scrolling lag-free, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. If a browser is performing badly, use a different browser is the best course of action.

Chrome loads pages faster than the Samsung browser, but general performance after that is almost always better in the Samsung browser for me. So I keep Chrome disabled.
 
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I cannot even use Chrome. Chrome always defaults to https, which for some inexplicable reason, my Internet refuses to work with. Sites either load horribly slow or flat out give webpage not available, or load in some corrupted state, Similar to how it looks trying to load a modern website in something as old as Netscape 3.x. only Samsung's browser will load sites unsecured and only go to https in desktop view.
 
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I've never noticed that issue, but I haven't really used Chrome much because I don't like to Sync History to an account. That's the only reason I'd fathom using it, cause it's feature set (not gimmicks, useful stuff like Save Offline and Reader Mode) kind of sucks compared to Samsung's browser.

It also has a ridiculous RAM footprint and takes up a ton of storage on-device.
 
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Using Java was never the *best* choice for a Run Time, but it was the safest choice and the easiest way to get developers onto the platform.
Android will continue to use Java to build apps even with Android ART. The key differences between Dalvik and ART are below.

Under Dalvik you have this execution workflow...

  1. Launch App.
  2. Android looks for APK file.
  3. Opens up said APK.
  4. Runs said APK through Dalvik.
  5. Dalvik compiles APK to Java intermediate code.
  6. Dalvik hands the Java intermediate code over to the Java execution engine.
  7. The Java execution engine compiles the pre-compiled Java intermediate code the rest of the way to machine code.
  8. The machine code is executed.
  9. App loads and is displayed on the screen.
ART's execution engine is far more simple. When the app is installed via the Play Store or side-loaded, the ART engine steps in and completely compiles said app to native machine code that can run directly on the CPU and saves it to the device's memory. So, with that being said...

  1. Launch app.
  2. Look for pre-compiled machine code binary.
  3. Launch said pre-compiled machine code binary.
  4. App loads and is displayed on the screen.
Note how there's no step during this execution workflow that includes compiling anything, the app has already been compiled to machine code by the Android RunTime (ART) at the time of the app's install.

This helps execution time, app load time, and battery life because the app's APK file doesn't have to be re-compiled every time you launch said app.

Java will however stay around for a long time in Android because that is the API that Google Android uses, they're just changing how APKs are going to executed.
 
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Android will continue to use Java to build apps even with Android ART.
Nothing in my post was stating the contrary. I was referring more specifically to how Dalvik was designed to basically mimic the design of a traditional Java VM in its execution model - an issue that other Platforms like .NET solved a decade ago with tools like NGen.

See my reply to you in the other thread about this.

I tend to think of the Language and Libraries as separate from the platform when it comes to Java, .NET, and other similar platforms.

Windows Phone, for example, using the .NET Runtime, but the Apps are NGen'd for better performance.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2013/08/06/got-a-need-for-speed-net-apps-start-faster.aspx

The problem with Dalvik and performance wasn't limited to the apps you install. All the Android Libraries, etc. are bytecode. By compiling all of that to Native Code, even if the apps are still bytecode, there is still a sizeable performance benefit.
 
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It also tended to have websites load all corrupted, not load at all, or have missing images. From my research online the 4620LE isn't a highly reliable product. Aside loading issues, it tended to go 'dormant' (disconnect from the Internet despite a decent 4G signal) a lot during use rendering it useless. The 5510 is a much better product so far.

The 4620LE did have time sync issues. Could have been part of it, it kept seeing the current time either Jan 1, 1980, or a day or so into the future.
 
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Probably because the hotspot also acts as a wifi router, and whatever HTTPS was using on that particular unit was having the ports blocked or something. for example. Android Forums loaded but Google search timed out and gave an error. or loaded super slow as if on a Dial-Up connection.

In its log, it had a lot of entries for blocked requests fitting Google's DNS and other sites i tried to access, and i tried DMZ to no avail. the device was faulty and eventually refused to even power on.

A Verizon JetPack Mifi is a Novatel device with a modem and router (along with a website config) and has a fully-functional router setup. you can change a lot of things, use your own DNS servers, enable a DMZ, turn on QoS and other things. the difference is not being wired. to use wired devices, you need a Network Extender device with wired ethernet ports, and that will connect to the JetPack wirelessly and give wired devices access.
 
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According to what i read online, they simply issued a firmware update that was not reliable and never got around to fixing it with any subsequent updates. the device is probably EOL now since the 5510L came out. a 4620LE would work fine without said update, but Verizon made it a 'mandatory' firmware so it would download anyway on its own.

The issues surrounding the 4620LE aren't confined to firmware though, the device always ran hot to touch, so evidently there was bad provisions for ventilation and a hot enough temp (such as using it outdoors where most would be toting a mifi in the first place) would also cause it to drop the data connection and go 'dormant' until a reboot or the unit cools down. on 4G LTE mode it would get pretty darned hot. forcing it to run in 3G or 1xRTT would make it run just cool enough to maintain a reliable yet slow connection.

the 5510L lost the external antenna port and global capability but in practice i get much better 4G LTE signal, speeds are tons better, almost DSL speeds, and it isn't even warm, much less hot. it also allows configuration without needing the website interface. you can switch data modes (1x, 3G, 4G, auto), view usage, change power management features and more from the device itself. the OLED display can also be set to remain on while plugged in so one can easily see status info without having to push the sleep/power key.
 
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TouchWiz isnt compatible with ART, and that is the reason used for the omission in TouchWiz based custom ROMs, but I bet cyanogen has it. No stock ROM is getting it until Android L unless you own a Nexus 5 or run the developer preview.

Unless Samsung can fix or update TouchWiz then they might simply run a kernel without ART to overcome the limitation, and remain in dalvik. The dev preview unofficial portover on the Nexus 7 isn't running ART either and the performance is laggy.
 
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Samsung will not remain in Dalvik. The NOte 4 is releasing in the middle of October and the update for Android L for the S5 and Note 4 is *rumored* to be scheduled for Late November/Early December.

If they launch an update for Android L with Dalvik the performance of the device will not keep pace with competing devices and it may have a significant impact on their sales for the holiday season. Word gets around.

They will make it ART compatible, and probably just left ART out of the pre-L TouchWiz ROMs so they didn't have to bother supporting that aspect of the OS.
 
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