camera improvements (not mp)

jamielov · Oct 11, 2014

Wondering if the camera as a whole will be an improvement over the maxx? Anyone hear anything. I get the whole 21mp is impressive, but unless you are printing up huge poster size pics, it's not a big deal. I read the moto x had a slightly better camera then the maxx?

I didn't realize until the last 4 months how the camera cant really handle night time/lit photos without making the person look like a ghost. I go to a lot of concerts and I was front row at the last 2, and even so the pics were horrid. I swapped for google camera and it def helped with my photos, the difference was huge, so hopefully this new phone can improve that.

I know its only a camera phone and am not expecting the quality of a $4000 dslr camera, but if they are going to supply a 21mp camera, maybe they can finally have a average to good camera, not sub par?

budfox66 · Oct 14, 2014

Leaks say camera software is competitive if not better than anything out there...and 3G RAM + quadcore snapdragon should process snapping pics much faster. I'm encouraged since it should be exponentially better than prev moto

doogald · Oct 15, 2014

We're not going to know how good the camera can be until we know what the actual sensor is going to be. Software can always be improved, but the hardware cannot, and the 2013 Droids had a mediocre sensor.

Why companies like Motorola don't spend the effort to make their camera systems as good as the iPhone I simply don't understand.

vzwuser76 · Oct 16, 2014

doogald said:
We're not going to know how good the camera can be until we know what the actual sensor is going to be. Software can always be improved, but the hardware cannot, and the 2013 Droids had a mediocre sensor.

Why companies like Motorola don't spend the effort to make their camera systems as good as the iPhone I simply don't understand.

From what I've heard about the 2014 Moto X, Motorola dropped Omnivision as their camera supplier and are rumored to have gone with Sony. The reason for the Sony rumors is that the hardware being used in the 2014 X, Turbo, and Nexus 6 all line up with offeriings from Sony.

doogald · Oct 16, 2014

vzwuser76 said:
From what I've heard about the 2014 Moto X, Motorola dropped Omnivision as their camera supplier and are rumored to have gone with Sony. The reason for the Sony rumors is that the hardware being used in the 2014 X, Turbo, and Nexus 6 all line up with offeriings from Sony.

How about the lenses/optics?

Again, it's too early to say right now until somebody actually tests the camera. At this point I don't trust Motorola to say that it's good enough, because they always say that and even this year's X seems not to be top-of-the-line quality (though still much better than last year..)

Sandroidfan · Oct 16, 2014

doogald said:
How about the lenses/optics?

Again, it's too early to say right now until somebody actually tests the camera. At this point I don't trust Motorola to say that it's good enough, because they always say that and even this year's X seems not to be top-of-the-line quality (though still much better than last year..)

I agree. I have yet to see Moto delivers great camera that can rival or come close to Apple, Samsung flagships. They always ended up being mediocre on camera department. Hopefully Turbo, Nexus 6 are change of that trend.

vzwuser76 · Oct 17, 2014

Sandroidfan said:
I agree. I have yet to see Moto delivers great camera that can rival or come close to Apple, Samsung flagships. They always ended up being mediocre on camera department. Hopefully Turbo, Nexus 6 are change of that trend.

While you both make good points, I think the biggest drawback in terms of the camera on last year's and this year's devices is the camera UI. I always found I could get better pictures out of the camera by making adjustments to the settings on any phone I've had. I've had 3 HTC phones and one Samsung, and the auto settings would work but they weren't great images. But the problem with Motorola's UI is that there isn't much room to change the settings.

If they'd add settings like exposure, white balance, metering mode, MP count, etc, I could've gotten much better pics with my Droid Maxx and X. I know they want to keep things simple and make everything automatic so they don't overload the user, but why not offer an advanced mode that allows you to adjust those settings if you want? That I think is the biggest downfall of the Motorola (and Nexus for that matter) cameras.

I've tried third party camera apps, but they never seemed to be as good as one that'd be optimized by the OEM. To be fair, I also tried those apps on my GS3 to make sure it wasn't just Motorola's hardware, and the pics on the GS3 didn't come out as good on the third party app as it did adjusting the settings in the stock Samsung camera app.

AnonGuy · Oct 28, 2014

budfox66 said:
Leaks say camera software is competitive if not better than anything out there...and 3G RAM + quadcore snapdragon should process snapping pics much faster. I'm encouraged since it should be exponentially better than prev moto

Not sure why you think this matters. If they're using the in-built ISP in the SD SoC, then it will likely process slower and not as well as a Samsung or Apple device, because those OEMs are using better components.

Quad Core doesn't do much for imaging, because the phone is basically using a different component for image processing. Same for 3GB RAM. It just doesn't matter that much. The imaging pipeline has its own buffer.

This is why the iPhone can do burst capture and process images faster (and better) than practically any other phone (even older versions when image resolution was the same). The 512-1GB RAM and Dual Core processor didn't handicap their ISP/imaging pipeline.

Android Phones didn't really get competitive with that until they started using dedicated ISPs in their phones (One X (ImageChip), GS3 (Fujitsu ISP) generation). HTC and Samsung use similar setups even to this day. We'll have to see teardowns of the Droid Turbo to see what its using and then compare it to ImageChip, Fujitsu, and Apple's ISP to see how capable the device actually is as a camera device (with 5.0s new camera APIs, developers should be able to muscle a bit more power out of these cameras even if the OEM falls short).

The ISP is like an extra core just for imaging. It is for imaging what the GPU is for 3D Graphics.

Camera and Image Processing Algorithms/Software still play a role. But I think a lot of people who look at specs simply only look skin deep and never really consider other things (that aren't mentioned as much) that matter more for certain aspects of the user experience (Audio Chipsets, ISP, etc.). A lot of that being because they aren't listed in the Spec Sheet, of course.

AnonGuy · Oct 28, 2014

vzwuser76 said:
While you both make good points, I think the biggest drawback in terms of the camera on last year's and this year's devices is the camera UI. I always found I could get better pictures out of the camera by making adjustments to the settings on any phone I've had. I've had 3 HTC phones and one Samsung, and the auto settings would work but they weren't great images. But the problem with Motorola's UI is that there isn't much room to change the settings.

If they'd add settings like exposure, white balance, metering mode, MP count, etc, I could've gotten much better pics with my Droid Maxx and X. I know they want to keep things simple and make everything automatic so they don't overload the user, but why not offer an advanced mode that allows you to adjust those settings if you want? That I think is the biggest downfall of the Motorola (and Nexus for that matter) cameras.

I've tried third party camera apps, but they never seemed to be as good as one that'd be optimized by the OEM. To be fair, I also tried those apps on my GS3 to make sure it wasn't just Motorola's hardware, and the pics on the GS3 didn't come out as good on the third party app as it did adjusting the settings in the stock Samsung camera app.

Samsung's camera software doesn't have a Manual Mode, either, to be frank.

I think HTC got the camera software right but failed on the camera module itself.

Sony struck a much better balance. They have their Superior Auto Mode which helps less advanced users a lot, as well as a full manual mode for people who want to get the most out of the camera software.

Not being able to choose Photo Resolution is a huge fail, though. And the UI is so bare that it ceases to be a benefit to usability.

doogald · Oct 29, 2014

AnonGuy said:
Not being able to choose Photo Resolution is a huge fail, though. And the UI is so bare that it ceases to be a benefit to usability.

I'm curious: why is that a huge fail? Why is the ability to step down resolution at capture so important when it can be done afterward with software?

I haven't used an iPhone camera often. Does the stock app allow you to change resolution? I don't recall seeing a setting for that.

PeninaD · Oct 29, 2014

doogald said:
I'm curious: why is that a huge fail? Why is the ability to step down resolution at capture so important when it can be done afterward with software?

I haven't used an iPhone camera often. Does the stock app allow you to change resolution? I don't recall seeing a setting for that.

I can tell you from doing assignments where I am required to submit digital reports with multiple photos, not being able to step down res to small amounts is a time waster. Having to downsize multiple photos through software so that they upload faster, and comply with low mb requirements of various vendors adds to my workload.
While we are at it, I really miss being able to toggle date/time stamps on photos (again, a frequent assignment requirement)...last smartphone I had that had that built into to the vendor camera app was (original) HTC Droid Incredible!

Yes, I have Vignette which can do res and stamps...still, annoying.

AnonGuy · Oct 29, 2014

doogald said:
I'm curious: why is that a huge fail? Why is the ability to step down resolution at capture so important when it can be done afterward with software?

I haven't used an iPhone camera often. Does the stock app allow you to change resolution? I don't recall seeing a setting for that.

No. But he doesn't have an iPhone so that's completely irrelevant... ;-)

It's a huge fail because it takes extra time and more steps and complicates things. Not everyone is a techie or power user.

Time is money, and OEMs need to simplify their user experiences while offering necessary options.

On the iPhone using a 3rd party app is less clunky cause the OS doesn't bombard you with dialogs to choosing an app whenever you want to take a picture in a different app.

Because of that a lot of people avoid installing redundant apps like browsers and cameras.

Universal defaults are needed, like there was in sense 3.6 or 4.0.

doogald · Oct 30, 2014

AnonGuy said:
No. But he doesn't have an iPhone so that's completely irrelevant... ;-)

Who is he? I was responding to your comment about resolution choice. I've never heard the iPhone being called a total fail for camera and it can't choose resolution.

The Google camera app lets you choose resolution and aspect ratio on the maxx (6 different choices from 16:9 10.5 mp to 4:3 1.2 mp) and you can make it the default camera app for all but the twist to start camera, as far as I know. It also lets you change exposure if you wish. I just checked - in the Facebook app, when I choose to take a photo, it asks which app moto camera or Google camera, and lets you make it a one time choice or an always default, just like what happens when you install an alternate launcher and press home.

PowrDroid · Oct 30, 2014

doogald said:
How about the lenses/optics?

Again, it's too early to say right now until somebody actually tests the camera. At this point I don't trust Motorola to say that it's good enough, because they always say that and even this year's X seems not to be top-of-the-line quality (though still much better than last year..)

Like you, I don't trust Moto to say it's got a great camera. They've said it before and they were wrong.

From what I've seen of the sample photos that are now out on the web, the Turbo camera seems to take pictures with the same quality as previous Moto phone cameras, the Maxx HD (which I have), the Moto X (which my son has). In other words, inaccurate colors and undersaturated. The f 2.0 aperture is nice, but no optical image stabilization is inexcusable. Like my RMHD, OIS might be built into the hardware of the Turbo but the stock camera does not use it. Waiting to see which sensor they are utilizing. Rumor has it that it uses the same Sony sensor that is in the new Experia Z3. If true that could be good news as the Z3 takes great photos. We'll have to wait and see.

budfox66 · Oct 30, 2014

Looks like the vid camera has OIS built in like the RMHD, only better. I'm not jumping up and down yet on the camera, but I will say the pics I've taken so far are so high res that you can zoom in on a pic with very little distortion. Took a pic of a party paper plate, and the football on the plate looks real when I zoom in! It's more responsive and snaps faster too. Jury still out though.

dmodert66 · Oct 30, 2014

As I said in another thread, the low light images look massively better than on my Droid Maxx. Really a night and day difference. I'll have to do much more testing to see though. For instance, my Maxx took horrid pictures at concerts. I'll be interested to see if the Turbo does better. As far as taking low light pictures in my living room though, this phone is a huge improvement over both my Maxx and my brother's G2.

budfox66 · Oct 31, 2014

Took pics at my kids soccer game last night, tried out every option I could find, both pics and vids, 2k and 4k. Here are my observations: I can't tell a diff b/t 2k and 4k quality at night. The camera snaps faster and is more responsive. Stills at night are much better than my RMHD. Seems like OIS works on 2k but not 4k vids. I'm just not jumping up and down over the camera...kinda disappointed to tell the truth. Kinda like buying the car that reports 45mpg and you take it home and get 35mpg. Still good, but...

PowrDroid · Oct 31, 2014

dmodert66 said:
As I said in another thread, the low light images look massively better than on my Droid Maxx. Really a night and day difference.

budfox66 said:
Took pics at my kids soccer game last night, tried out every option I could find, both pics and vids, 2k and 4k. Here are my observations: I can't tell a diff b/t 2k and 4k quality at night. The camera snaps faster and is more responsive. Stills at night are much better than my RMHD. Seems like OIS works on 2k but not 4k vids. I'm just not jumping up and down over the camera...kinda disappointed to tell the truth. Kinda like buying the car that reports 45mpg and you take it home and get 35mpg. Still good, but...

The car analogy is great. It's about where I'm at right now.

Went to the Verizon store last night and tested the camera. Came away encouraged. Tried to take a bad photo and couldn't do it. Seemed really good in low light situations (as much as I could create inside the store.) Taking the same shots with my RMHD and looking at them side-by-side was enlightening. My Maxx HD's photos looked like garbage.

I'm not jumping up and down....yet. But I'm flexing my knees. LOL.

Phone Arena feels about the same way you do.

Motorola DROID Turbo Review - Camera and Multimedia

If you look at some of their sample photos, especially the night shots, it's obvious this camera is miles better than anything Moto has put in a phone so far. But is it elite category? Not sure.

solo88 · Oct 31, 2014

Well friends it's been a long time since the HTC Incredible days and that mysterious box.

I picked up my turbo yesterday and was the first one walking out with it.

I'm very disappointed about the no talk+data but apparently it's getting fixed with advanced calling 1.0 in a few weeks. Their 4g footprint is growing so it shouldn't be a problem unless you live in a rural area and even then it should be resolved.

The battery life is beastly and just great. Better than my RMHD and my Droid Maxx.

The camera takes excellent low light pictures compared to the D maxx although I always enjoyed the HDR capabilities of the RHD/RMHD the turbo's hdr capabilities for low light situations are gar better. It lightens and sharpens the picture far better. This tells me that the sensor is not omnivision but the Sony I've read here. The sensor/size is what matters not the mp. Mp comes second only after a great sensor.

Overall I love the size of it and it feels THINNER than my droid maxx! I don't know what the apple fanbois are talking about this thing feels great in hand

AnonGuy · Oct 31, 2014

doogald said:
Who is he? I was responding to your comment about resolution choice. I've never heard the iPhone being called a total fail for camera and it can't choose resolution.

The Google camera app lets you choose resolution and aspect ratio on the maxx (6 different choices from 16:9 10.5 mp to 4:3 1.2 mp) and you can make it the default camera app for all but the twist to start camera, as far as I know. It also lets you change exposure if you wish. I just checked - in the Facebook app, when I choose to take a photo, it asks which app moto camera or Google camera, and lets you make it a one time choice or an always default, just like what happens when you install an alternate launcher and press home.

Fail for resolution? Put down the Kool-aid.

There's a ton more that goes into a decent camera, than some high resolution.

He is the person that bought a point and shoot cause the phone camera software on Motorola phones is bad.

Clearly you didn't read my post, just skimmed for material to debate about.

AnonGuy · Oct 31, 2014

solo88 said:
Well friends it's been a long time since the HTC Incredible days and that mysterious box.

I picked up my turbo yesterday and was the first one walking out with it.

I'm very disappointed about the no talk+data but apparently it's getting fixed with advanced calling 1.0 in a few weeks. Their 4g footprint is growing so it shouldn't be a problem unless you live in a rural area and even then it should be resolved.

The battery life is beastly and just great. Better than my RMHD and my Droid Maxx.

The camera takes excellent low light pictures compared to the D maxx although I always enjoyed the HDR capabilities of the RHD/RMHD the turbo's hdr capabilities for low light situations are gar better. It lightens and sharpens the picture far better. This tells me that the sensor is not omnivision but the Sony I've read here. The sensor/size is what matters not the mp. Mp comes second only after a great sensor.

Overall I love the size of it and it feels THINNER than my droid maxx! I don't know what the apple fanbois are talking about this thing feels great in hand

Advanced Calling only works with other Verizon phones that have Advanced Calling and are in LTE coverage.

If the person you're talking to is on any other carrier or has VOLTE turned off (or using a phone without it i.e. most devices), you still won't have SV&D.

I wouldn't get a phone without that capability because of Advanced Calling 1.0

I'd skip it and wait until carriers interop, personally.

camera improvements (not mp)

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