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Managing without an internal SD card

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#27
My M8 has KitKat, 32 GB, HTC Sense, and all of the hidden firmware goodness you'd expect from HTC.

It has 24.8 GB of the 32 free for users out of the box - iow, a little over 7 GB used for the system.

I don't know what five-oh on the Nexus is going to take but I kinda don't expect to be on the order of 17, or anything near that.

I'd expect this to have 22 to 24 GB free, minimum.
 
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#30
EarlyMon said:
Actually, in KittyKat the sd card is more secure, in Lollipop both are updated to the new security model, with bug fixes from 4.4.

Built in storage is faster just as you say, and it's more reliable.
Click to expand...

i disagree. for example - Camera pics and Documents are not secure with SD card. someone can take out your SD card and gain access to them. not possible with Internal Storage on a pattern/PIN locked phone.

bottom line - removable storage is a security hole.
 
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#31
Gekko said:
i disagree. for example - Camera pics and Documents are not secure with SD card. someone can take out your SD card and gain access to them. not possible with Internal Storage on a pattern/PIN locked phone.

bottom line - removable storage is a security hole.
Click to expand...

In a physical sense yes. I won't argue that if someone can get to your sd card, they can steal your phone. (Not trying to be cute, someone stole WifelyMon's phone yesterday and I'm still ranting lol. Pin notwithstanding, stolen is stolen, the use is deprived.)

From a software standpoint, Google changed underlying permissions in KitKat so that an app can only write and delete files in the folder that it owns, even though it can read from any, on the physical sd card. That's been a game changer for non-rooted users with physical sd cards used to just doing whatever using a file explorer app. (A root mod defeats that.)

Medion said:
Android 4.3 brought some MicroSD changes, and KitKat enhanced and enforced them. While some Samsung devices that came from another OS to KitKat (Galaxy S3, S4, Note 2, and Note 3) have a "bug" that allows for a workaround (used by ES and many others), Samsung devices that shipped with KitKat (such as the S5) don't have this bug. MicroSD usage on this device and others works as Google intends it.

So, what are the limitations?

System installed applications have full read/write access to the MicroSD, if granted by Google/the OEM. This includes Samsung's Files app (making it the best file manager on a non-rooted S5).

For normal applications, the entire SD card can be read, but the application can only write to the app-specific folder located in /android/data. If an app is updated to use the Storage access Framework (SAF), it can read/write to specific folders on the MicroSD, but only of the OEM has properly enabled this (on my Galaxy S4 GPE on 4.4.3, this still didn't work).

If rooted, you can edited the platform/xml file to re-enable the old way of read/write for everything. Most custom ROMs do this as well, hence people using custom ROMs don't encounter this issue.
Click to expand...

With Lollipop, that permission change extends to internal storage (aka internal sd cards) and has updated the SAF.

Medion said:
You've heard me whine about MicroSD support since KitKat. However, under the new rules, we should still have MicroSD read/write capability via SAF (Storage Access Framework). However, we don't have this because of an oversight via software. I've been assured by Google that this is now being addressed internally and will roll out in a future OTA. This doesn't restore the phone's MicroSD capabilities to that of pre-KitKat, but it allow read/write capabilities under the new rules as intended.
Click to expand...

If you want to follow the detailed API for this and other details, that's at Android 5.0 APIs | Android Developers

Due to differences in permissions and file systems in KitKat, you can copy from sd card to internal - but not from internal to anywhere you like on a physical sd card.

I've been on Android since Donut (judging from your join date here, you probably were as well, maybe even longer) - and that was a huge change in KitKat.

In any case - security permissions were not evenly applied to both internal and external storage - so far as I know, they are now.

And that's greater intrusion security - not physical security. :)
 
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#32
kinfolk248 said:
how big is 5.0 OS? what if its like 17 gigs and eats up half of my 32 gig storage out the box...?!
Click to expand...

IIRC, the first Nexus 5 developer preview was only about 4GB give or take for the OS. Then you have to add the System apps and I believe I was left with about 11.5GB out of 16 free. I moved back to KitKat for various reasons, but I could install the new preview to find out for sure. I would expect the Nexus 6 to be somewhere around the same point.
 
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#33
Yeah the actual size of the OS does matter these days. Like IOS 8 is almost too big for the 8 gig Iphones to hold. And if L is hella big, 32 g may not be large enough. Then you have to take into account that files are only getting bigger especially with all this HD, 4k nonsense lol. But im getting the 128 gig orange model so it doesnt matter to me... lol
 
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#36
badutahboy said:
I stopped holding music on my phone, paid for a Slacker Radio plus subscription ($3/mo), enabled dropbox sync for photos, and I've never had a problem.
Click to expand...


I often stream music when I'm at home or work. However I do keep music, audiobooks and podcasts on the phone(64GB SD card) for when there's no WiFi available, like when I'm travelling, long haul flights and train and bus journeys, which I've been doing quite a lot of this year so far.
 
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#42
Gekko said:
i disagree. for example - Camera pics and Documents are not secure with SD card. someone can take out your SD card and gain access to them. not possible with Internal Storage on a pattern/PIN locked phone.

bottom line - removable storage is a security hole.
Click to expand...

Actually, they most certainly can be secure. The "S" in MicroSD card stands for "secure". You can encrypt the card via your phones security menu and it'll be just as secure as the NAND.
 
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#43
When I was purchasing my Nexus 5, I had two major concerns.
1. There was no removable battery, which makes for an easy replacement if the battery fails and that also meant that you couldn't just do a battery pull and reset the device.
Although there is a simulated battery pull method for these devices that works just as well as an actual battery pull.
Apon further investigation thought, I learned that all nexus devices are specially designed to be easily torn down and that the internal parts are made to be replaced easily by the end user... Including the battery, power button, camera and etc and typically are cheaper to replace yourself than have a service center do the work.

2. No external SD card. All my previous Android and WinMob devices all had a removable battery and an external SD card. So this was a major concern to me.
What!? Really... No external/removable storage! OK

This is the nice thing about internal/emulated SD cards that I now understand and have a better appreciation for.


xdrc45 said:
On android there are 2 main partitions:
The "/system" partition - Is where the OS is stored.
The "/data" partition - Is where all the user data is stored.
Downloaded apps are stored in "/data/apps"
System settings that you changed (ringtones, wallpaper etc) are stored in "/data/data"
Also there are a several other minor partitions but these really have no use to the topic at hand.

Both of these main partitions are on the internal nand flash memory or eMMC (Embedded MultiMedia Card)
The whole data partition is used for apps and system data only. Which left no where for music, movies, photos, documents etc. to be stored. This is where the SD card comes into play. Typically with devices that have a removable SD card, would also have a small internal nand flash memory and wouldn't allow for much user data to be stored. Once full the device would lag/run slow and you couldn't download additional apps or have any space to store things.
Other than deleting stuff off of your device one of the solutions was to use apps like link2sd or app2sd to move apps to the SD card to free up internal space. Which isn't always a solution to the problem.

On devices that don't have an external SD card and devices like the N5, you still have these 2 main partitions but since it doesn't have a removable SD card, it has a larger internal nand flash memory so that it can have an internal SD card. Technically you could look at the whole nand flash memory as a huge internal SD card. Although a partition of that internal nand flash memory is a "/sdcard" partition.

whether the device has an external or internal SD card, "/sdcard" is just a mount point that android uses to store data.
On the N5 it actually points to an internal memory partition "/data/media/0" which is actually the "/sdcard"
The N5 is different in that, you still continue to have your "/data" partition but within "/data" you have:

/data/app
/data/data
/data/media/0

Which this allow for the N5 to have a usable user storage of:
32gb N5 = 26.7GB of unsure storage
16gb N5 = 12.55GB of user storage

I also use a USB OTG cable and SD card reader and the Stick Mount app to transfer pics, files, music and documents. I use 2 different cloud based storages to backup pics, files and etc.. and I also transfer pics, files and data to my PC and to my HDD for a local and safe storage of important files, nandroid backups, ROMs, factory images and etc..

Hope this helps and clears something's up! :thumbup:
Click to expand...
 
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#44
marctronixx said:
SanDisk Ultra 64GB Micro USB 2.0 OTG Flash Drive For Android Smartphone/Tablet

Amazon.com: SanDisk Ultra 64GB Micro USB 2.0 OTG Flash Drive For Android Smartphone/Tablet With App- SDDD-064G-G46: Computers & Accessories

I use the above with File Expert app on the nex 9 and it works flawless.
Click to expand...

I have my storage device(s). How about the OTG cable/adapter? They all look more or less the same, but is there something specific I should look for or steer clear of?
 
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#45
ODog2323 said:
I have my storage device(s). How about the OTG cable/adapter? They all look more or less the same, but is there something specific I should look for or steer clear of?
Click to expand...

This is going to sound silly but it's not - make sure that the connector fits your device. Some have too much plastic or rubber at the small end and then it's time for the Xacto knife or a swap.

If I had to guess for a device sight unseen, I'd start with monoprice.com -

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=9724
 
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#46
I'm pretty sure that this is the exact USB OTG cable that I ordered for my N5 and it works perfectly for my N5 and on my Lenovo A2109 tablet. For the price I actually ordered 4 of them and have not had a single issue with it and am still using the first one/originally opened and the other 3 are still in the package. The connector fits perfectly into the N5 and Lenovo USB port... No need to modify it to fit or for it work. Worked straight out of the box. Then N5 doesn't have OTG support nativity, so you will need root it and install an app like Stick Mount for it to work.

Google Nexus 5 OTG USB Cable Be Able to Read Flash Drives on Your Nexus 5 | eBay
 
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#47
xdrc45 said:
I'm pretty sure that this is the exact USB OTG cable that I ordered for my N5 and it works perfectly for my N5 and on my Lenovo A2109 tablet. For the price I actually ordered 4 of them and have not had a single issue with it and am still using the first one/originally opened and the other 3 are still in the package. The connector fits perfectly into the N5 and Lenovo USB port... No need to modify it to fit or for it work. Worked straight out of the box. Then N5 doesn't have OTG support nativity, so you will need root it and install an app like Stick Mount for it to work.
Click to expand...

Do many devices not support this? I'm a bit lost. I've been using my Tascam audio recorder to transfer recorded mp3s to my Asus TF Prime through the keyboard dock's full size USB port. No root, all stock. I'm looking to be able to do the same thing with my phone. I thought I'd just need one of those USB to Micro USB OTG cables...?

And I assumed I could use the same adapter to connect the phone to an external HD through full size USB. That drive also has its own power.
 
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#48
Yeah, all you need is an OTG cable, and you now have two recommendations. :)

Yes, it ought to work for your external drive, depending on the file system.


I'm not sure how to answer - do a lot of devices have it? - because so far as I recall, it didn't seem to show up sporadically until 2012. Since then, many more have offered the feature either built-in or as a kernel mod for those not quite there.

In theory, any OTG cable ought to do.

The same theory applies to charging cables, but after years of good and bad ones, I tend to look only at a vendor I trust.

Pretty sure that is what the two of us are saying. :)
 
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#50
mikedt said:
I often stream music when I'm at home or work. However I do keep music, audiobooks and podcasts on the phone(64GB SD card) for when there's no WiFi available, like when I'm travelling, long haul flights and train and bus journeys, which I've been doing quite a lot of this year so far.
Click to expand...

That's why I use slacker's paid service. You can download stations to your phone and it uses a fairly minimal amount of space (+/- 200MB/station). This allows you to have a decent selection of music on your phone without having to keep a ton of music you don't listen to. I don't rotate my MP3's very often, so I always had WAY more music than necessary for my current mood. With slacker, I keep 4-5 stations that fit my current mood and it takes up less than 1GB of space on my phone.
 
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