Saturn ION 'low trac' caused engine stall?

nickdalzell · Feb 3, 2015

2005 Saturn ION, 2.2L EcoTec IL4

Took a wrong turn and had to turn around, and the only place to do so was a muddy driveway to some farm field. when i tried to reverse out of it, i got hung up in the mud, and LOW TRAC came on in the information center, and the engine flat-out stalled. restarted it, no lights, no Check Engine or the like, tried to back out again, rock the car in D and Rev to get out of the mud, again, LOW TRAC and immediate engine stall.

Is traction control supposed to kill the engine? i also was under the impression that it was supposed to prevent me getting stuck in the mud not making it worse? i had to in the end use the kill switch (thanks Saturn for giving the option to me!) and i managed to unstick myself just fine. Either traction control is completely useless or something else happened. car runs fine, still no CEL, was the first time i saw that message, is TC meant to stall the engine out ?

codesplice · Feb 4, 2015

Traction control wasn't really built for getting in or out of the mud - more likely, as you found, the "TCS OFF" switch is far more useful for those circumstances.

TCS can vary from car to car, but it generally kicks in when the wheels are spinning at different speeds. On the road, that would indicate that you're sliding (or spinning tires from a launch). TCS would step in and either divert power to whatever wheel isn't spinning or cut it entirely (depending on the car/differential/etc) - its goal is to make the spinning stop.

The TCS OFF switch is used for situations when you want a wheel to be able to spin. I use it most for autocross events (a little bit of sliding can be helpful for getting around a corner quickly), but it's also good for getting unstuck or maneuvering (slowly) on a slippery surface. With TCS engaged, the car would just constantly be cutting power and going nowhere.

That all being said, I'm not sure exactly why TCS is making your call stall. It doesn't seem to me like it should do that, but it could be shutting off as a safety precaution (that could be preferable to constantly cutting power, which can be kind of rough on things I suppose). You'd probably be best served asking on a Saturn-centric forum or talking to a mechanic.

Let me know what you learn, cause now I'm curious!

Edit:
BTW, I found an excerpt from a 2004 Ion Owner's Manual that describes the TCS operation:

Traction Control System (TCS)

Your vehicle may have a traction control system that limits wheel spin. This is especially useful in slippery road conditions. The system operates only if it senses that one or both of the front wheels are spinning or beginning to lose traction. When this happens, the system works the front brakes and reduces engine power to limit wheel spin.

The LOW TRAC message will be displayed when the traction control system is limiting wheel spin. See Low Traction Message on page 3-42. You may feel or hear the system working, but this is normal.

If your vehicle is in cruise control when the traction control system begins to limit wheel spin, the cruise control will automatically disengage. When road conditions allow you to safely use it again, you may reengage the cruise control. See “Cruise Control” under Turn Signal/Multifunction Lever on page 3-8.

The traction control system automatically comes on whenever you start your vehicle. The light on the traction control button will also come on to let you know the system is on. To limit wheel spin, especially in slippery road conditions, you should always leave the system on. But you can turn the traction control system off if you ever need to. You should turn the system off if your vehicle ever gets stuck in sand, mud or snow and rocking the vehicle is required. See “Rocking Your Vehicle” under If You Are Stuck: In Sand, Mud, Ice or Snow on page 4-30.

To turn the system off, press the traction control button with this symbol on it, located on the instrument panel switchbank.

If the system is limiting wheel spin when you press the button, the LOW TRAC message will go off, but the system will not turn off until there is no longer a current need to limit wheel spin. The TRAC OFF light will come on briefly to let you know the system has been turned off, and will not limit wheel spin. The light on the traction control button will also go off. Adjust your driving accordingly. You can turn the system back on at any time by pressing the button again.

Nothing in there about the car stalling when the system engages repeatedly or anything. You may want to have a mechanic take a look and see what's up. :thumbsupdroid:

nickdalzell · Feb 5, 2015

When the LOW TRAC message was displayed, all engine power seemed cut, no response to the gas pedal, and when I let up, it stalled.

I never got the reduced power light but it felt like I was not allowed to accelerate and it cut power. On the second instance I actually saw the RPM needle fall to like 2500 when I was flooring it, and stall once I let off the gas.

Like anti lock brakes that sent me through an intersection or into a ditch more times than I could count, it seems TCS is a useless system that does nothing of what it's designed to do. I've driven vehicles old enough to not have anti lock, heck, old enough to have a carburetor and rear - wheel drive, and could stop in ice, snow and the like no problem. But anti lock felt like I had zero brakes, as that was exactly what happened, and almost caused an accident. I thought it was supposed to help me stop in bad weather in ways far superior to the old real-wheel drive sedan I had before, but all it did was rob me completely of my ability to brake the vehicle. Same for TCS. Instead of helping me gain traction it made the situation far worse. What good is this crap? Seems to me a useless gimmick

Gmash · Feb 5, 2015

Yeah, it's supposed to cut power, not supposed to stall. It works off of the wheel speed sensor, it cuts back the power when it detects wheel spin. It's not really good for getting unstuck, more to keep you from spinning out if you hit a patch of ice.

nickdalzell · Feb 5, 2015

I'm just glad I can turn it off, which is more than I can say for ABS

bjacks12 · Feb 23, 2015

Cut power is proper function. Stalling is not.

And TCS is terrible for anything other than a rainy road. The best way to get through mud without 4x4 is to not let it stop. Once you lose your momentum, you're often screwed....and TCS is great at making you lose momentum.

nickdalzell · Feb 23, 2015

Kinda ironic then. First I find out Anti Lock is really anti Stop, and Traction Control is not intended to help get traction. Who knew?

I got hung up again a week ago in the snow. The TCS Off button doesn't work (found out late) or I couldn't get it to. Yup, soon as LOW TRAC is lit, engine flat out loses all power and shuts down. I was flooring it the RPM fell to zero

Gonna start pulling fuses soon.

Saturn ION 'low trac' caused engine stall?

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