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Location being disclosed - how?

dt7301

Newbie
May 15, 2018
25
9
I have MS Edge installed as the browser on my phone. I also have this installed on my PC. They're linked with the same account so that the bookmarks synchronise.

"Location" is and always has been disabled on both the phone and the PC. For absolutely everything. If I want to use, say, Maps, I have to allow it for that app, and I then turn it back off again afterwards. Otherwise it's "globally disabled".

I have never allowed Twitter access to my location on either. Twitter doesn't know my address anyway so it has no means of knowing where I am. It couldn't work it out from what I do on there. So it can't pass that information anywhere.

If I click through from a link on Twitter to certain sites, I see adverts and they're personalised for my location in that they're things like "The cost of dental implants in (town name)".

This made me highly suspicious. How is it getting the location? It's specific - town name. Not generic.

It's not the IP address. At least, it shouldn't be. Both devices use the same internet connection here which is routed through a VPN. That is not "homed" here.

I had a look at the URLs. The Twitter links to the articles are short-links. When the actual end URL is shown on the news site (for instance) it does have a parameter at the end indicating "from Twitter".

If I remove just that and reload, the personalised ads vanish. Yet, I don't see how the location could be passed from Twitter. The short URL is surely too short.

If I click through the same link from Twitter to the identical article on my PC, the ads aren't personalised. Exactly as I'd expect.

The "link" is MS Edge. Microsoft browser on Microsoft PC. Synchronised with phone. Did it "leak" from the PC first? Not according to the setting on the PC. And the PC's behaviour is correct.

So neither device is authorised to disclose the location and never has been. It's not the IP. It's not in the HTTP headers.

The sinister behaviour is only on the phone. And when using outbound links from Twitter. But I think it more related to the ads themselves. The ads are served from a content network called Revcontent. Looks like that has a cookie that identifies me and in turn my location.

If I clear cookies on the phone, and "Close All", then open Edge again and reload the page: no personalised ads. OK, think I've found the culprit.

The question is: how did Revcontent get my location? It wasn't from my PC. Was it from the phone when out and about on 4G? No, because "Location" is disabled.

Or, is it really? Can anyone guess what's happening here? My suspicion is that the phone's assertion that "Location" is off, isn't quite true.

Without resorting to some complicated "packet sniffing" on our home network to see what the phone is actually doing I can't be sure. Can anyone point out anything I've missed? Any ideas? Thanks.
 
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Thanks for such a quick reply. Well, that's revealing ;)

We have a home connection like this:

EE 4G Transmitter > Roof Antennae > Huawei Modem > ASUS Router > [home network] Home Devices

The whole house uses 4G. This is the UK where fixed-line broadband still comes down phone lines outside cabled streets, so you have to be very, very near the street cabinet to get quick broadband over VDSL and we're 1km from it, so it's useless. Hence 4G.

VPN is configured in the ASUS Router, so every device uses it.

Provider is VPN UK.

With that on, our fixed IP shows the town name at your link.

With that off, it shows a nearby town, but not the right one.

Both modem and router are set for Automatic DNS which is to say EE's DNS servers.

It's fair to say that's how the leak is occurring. Many thanks!
 
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https://arstechnica.com/information...ns-cant-be-trusted-to-make-users-more-secure/
Even if your VPN is a good one and it's not leaking your IP address, unless you've removed the SIM card your carrier can track your location simply by using triangulation of nearby cell towers. Even when you have 'Location' disabled (primarily GPS based) and mobile data disabled, your mobile device still maintains a tenuous connection to its cellular network.
 
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Thanks. I'm not too bothered that the carrier can track where we are. After all it's a contract and they know my address, phone number and even bank details for payment.

It's a mobile data service being used as an always-on data service in only one physical location always connecting to the same transmitter about two miles away.

What bothers me is that websites (or indeed anyone else) can find it out. Albeit the personalised ads only appear on my Samsung mobile and never on my desktop machine even when I test them side-by-side using the same connection with the same IP and the same DNS with the same browser software.

DNS Leak Test can pin down the town name immediately - even on the desktop - when the VPN is on. OK, that town is actually seven miles away but it is the nearest town to here and very "identifying".

When the VPN is off, it resolves to somewhere about 20 miles away which I guess is because of the routing of the ISP's network. The "backbone" or however it is described is at that location.

I'd expect the latter but not the former.

Reading up on this now.
 
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I don't know about the U.K. but here in the U.S. all the major carriers are pretty pliable about a) selling mined data to commercial interests, and b) working with local law enforcement whether there's a court order or not involved.
As for relying on EE's DNS, since you have your own ASUS router you should give some serious thought into using other, third-party DNS services. Try using GRC's 'DNSBenchmark' utility to scan and rate the most optimal DNS service for your locale. Your most likely going to run into some issues running through your VPN though.
https://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm
Also, if you have both your Huawei modem and your ASUS router providing DNS to your home network, unless you specifically have two distinct and separate home LANs implemented there's something very odd going on. Typically any home LAN will have one gateway, not two competing, conflicting ones.
 
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As this turns out, it's far more about DNS and networking than Samsung phones.

Basically, we can't control the DNS when connected via the VPN when that's configured in the router.

For the same reason that we can't, for instance, block "revcontent". No matter what you set in the router: when the VPN is enabled, that overrides absolutely everything. Every setting you put in, is ignored.

To do that we'd need another router "in front of the router", as it were.

Or to configure each device's settings manually with specified DNS servers.

Done that on the phone to try it. Ads are no longer personalised. That's sorted it.

The account with VPN UK is paid. £9.99/mo. However I've used about four VPN providers and quite frankly they're all a bit crap. You use one until they overload the servers, then move to another, and so on. This one has managed to hold together better than the others and for longer.

Even though it's really slow - we get around 45 down and up all the time with the ISP (uncongested area, fast 4G), but the VPN shaves that back to about 16 down 35 up most of the time. For speedy downloads and uploads I have to disable it (first-world problems I suppose).

I might try another one. There's a market for a good quality VPN provider in the UK that doesn't immediately collapse just after Coronation Street has been on :)
 
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Also, if you have both your Huawei modem and your ASUS router providing DNS to your home network, unless you specifically have two distinct and separate home LANs implemented there's something very odd going on. Typically any home LAN will have one gateway, not two competing, conflicting ones.

It's like this:

EE 4G Transmitter > Roof Antennae > Huawei Modem > ASUS Router > [home network] Home Devices e.g. phone, PC, TV etc.

I know this is a weird home setup, but it's our only option for fast speeds. The UK is a very bad place to be unless you're right next to a phone cabinet and the ancient phone wires are decent, or if you can get "cable".

The Huawei modem is basically fairly "dumb". It just acts as a modem. The WiFi is disabled.

The ASUS router is the only thing directly connected to that.

That in turn provides the LAN, WiFi and DHCP for everything. One gateway, one set of DNS servers.

The only point of having it that way is because the Huawei doesn't support VPN internally. The ASUS does.

The only way to get everything in the house to go through a VPN is to put the ASUS "in front of it" (from the perspective of the home devices).

Thus avoiding the need to configure VPNs on every device in the house. They all route in the same manner.

If that makes sense.

Thing is, when the VPN is "on" in the ASUS router, you can't set DNS in it. It ignores every network-related setting and just passes everything through.
 
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