Anyone here planning on buying a HTC Magic?

[crazy88]

I think dabs.com sell them, or possibly expansys but not 100% sure.

Edit: it seems dabs doesn't, but expansys does although it's still locked to vodafone. Still doesn't give a price either.

 

[justjimjpc]

I gotta say, any desire for the Magic has been washed cleanly away with the official announcement of the I7500. HTC didn't do anything with the Magic to differ it from the G1 aside from glue the screen shut. Honestly, internal memory...honestly. I wait an extra month or two to get 10x the phone.

Totally Agree .... putting coins in the jar now for a i7500

 

[johnkzin]

I gotta say, any desire for the Magic has been washed cleanly away with the official announcement of the I7500. HTC didn't do anything with the Magic to differ it from the G1 aside from glue the screen shut. Honestly, internal memory...honestly. I wait an extra month or two to get 10x the phone.

I have to agree. And if the Samsung had a keyboard (even a 4 row keyboard), I'd be sorely tempted. I mean... it has a Dpad!! no more trackball!! That alone is with a few dozen points. Even though I actually love the G1 quite a bit, a G1 with more memory, more battery, and a Dpad would be a dream.

But, I need the physical keyboard. So no Sammy yet. Maybe their second Android will be the same thing, but with a keyboard.

 

[RozzaC]

I have to agree. And if the Samsung had a keyboard (even a 4 row keyboard), I'd be sorely tempted. I mean... it has a Dpad!! no more trackball!! That alone is with a few dozen points. Even though I actually love the G1 quite a bit, a G1 with more memory, more battery, and a Dpad would be a dream.

But, I need the physical keyboard. So no Sammy yet. Maybe their second Android will be the same thing, but with a keyboard.

Yeah I want a physical keyboard as well...so I'm not being tempted by this phone....

Although I do have to say...it's a very sweet phone...

I guess I should close this and make a "Who's going to buy the Samsung I7500?" thread now XD

 

[crazy88]

I personally much prefer the trackball over a d-pad. I find it much faster and easier for navigating.

 

[RozzaC]

I personally much prefer the trackball over a d-pad. I find it much faster and easier for navigating.

Yeah I lke trackballs...at first I hated it...but now I find it to be very useful....

Especially for links in webpages...

I guess people are more familiar with the D-Pad which is why people would prefer it...

 

[flarts]

Everyone is suddenly being a bit harsh on the Magic

It's still got double the memory ofthe G1 and according to early reviews is a very solidly built bit of kit... and it is rather stylish IMO.

I'm not saying the Samsung isn't very tasty (although I agree, I'd rather have trackball and you can't really fill 8gb with apps surely?) but the Magic was the darling of the show only a few weeks ago and extra memory and a flash isn't THAT revolutionary is it? And I'll bet you half a pint of weak lager an even better specced phone will be announced the second the Samsung hits the market.

Also, we're the sort of people that hang around on forums scrutinizing every little thing. A sexy little number like the Magic should sell very well off the shelf to less techy users IMO. Loadsa features in a cute little box... that's what the masses want.

And it's all good news for Android... that's the important bit

 

[RozzaC]

Everyone is suddenly being a bit harsh on the Magic

It's still got double the memory ofthe G1 and according to early reviews is a very solidly built bit of kit... and it is rather stylish IMO.

I'm not saying the Samsung isn't very tasty (although I agree, I'd rather have trackball and you can't really fill 8gb with apps surely?) but the Magic was the darling of the show only a few weeks ago and extra memory and a flash isn't THAT revolutionary is it? And I'll bet you half a pint of weak lager an even better specced phone will be announced the second the Samsung hits the market.

Also, we're the sort of people that hang around on forums scrutinizing every little thing. A sexy little number like the Magic should sell very well off the shelf to less techy users IMO. Loadsa features in a cute little box... that's what the masses want.

And it's all good news for Android... that's the important bit

I never once said that the Magic is rubbish now the Samsung is on the way...

Although it's obvious that now Samsung have announced this and it's coming out pretty soon...people are more likely to wait for it because it's better than the Magic...(in some ways)

And you may not be able to fill up 8GB with apps...

But you could easily fill it up with apps, music and images and probably still have space left over...

Chances are anyway...that Samsung phone will come out and will cost quite a bit of money compared to the HTC Magic...so people would still buy the HTC Magic at first, I think...

 

[flarts]

And you may not be able to fill up 8GB with apps... But you could easily fill it up with apps, music and images and probably still have space left over...

Well yes that's true but you can do that on the G1/Magic with a memory card. I think it's the number of apps a device can hold that's the issue.

Chances are anyway...that Samsung phone will come out and will cost quite a bit of money compared to the HTC Magic...so people would still buy the HTC Magic at first, I think...

Yes indeed I think you'll be right there.

Sorry, I wasn't having ago, there just seems to be a vibe around (other forums/press) that the Magic has had it's day and it's not even out yet and I just think it's a bit OTT. But as you say, not everyone feels that way so I aplogise if that's how it came across.

 

[RozzaC]

Well yes that's true but you can do that on the G1/Magic with a memory card. I think it's the number of apps a device can hold that's the issue.

Well..I'm not sure if anyone will be able to fill up the device's internal memory with JUST apps...if that's waht you're saying..

Yes indeed I think you'll be right there.

Sorry, I wasn't having ago, there just seems to be a vibe around (other forums/press) that the Magic has had it's day and it's not even out yet and I just think it's a bit OTT. But as you say, not everyone feels that way so I aplogise if that's how it came across.

No need to apologise...you were just putting your point forward...I can respect that..

 

[dynodroid]

I don't plan on purchasing the Magic. I can't handle a phone without the physical keyboard, although I must say, if I spend more time with an onscreen keyboard I might get used to it. I haven't spent much time with touchscreens or onscreen keyboards. At this point though, the physical keyboard is necessary.

Also, I don't plan on switching phones until I have to.

Personally, I really like the G1, both software and hardware.
My G1 is my baby!

 

[johnkzin]

I personally much prefer the trackball over a d-pad. I find it much faster and easier for navigating.

I find it to be awkward and inaccurate for navigating. I'm always over-shooting my target with it, often multiple times. For example, trying to hit some of the smaller widgets in Google Reader ("keep unread" for example), it's incredibly easy to overshoot the check box both horizontally and vertically, and thus hit the wrong thing (like select the next article, or a url at the bottom of hte current article, due to a last minute shift of the trackball as you press it; or even just difficulty selecting the item before you press it).

Small subtle moves just don't work well with it, where they work pretty flawlessly with a dpad -- you always move one increment. For larger moves, where a trackball can be much faster than a dpad, I can just finger-scroll on the touch screen.

It's also directionally inaccurate. Sometimes, on the home screen for example, if I need to vertically scroll with the trackball among icons along a screen edge, the G1 will get confused by the slightest horizontal movement of the trackball (like, if I am not perfectly vertical in the trackball movement, but am off by just 5 degrees in my angle of motion). When that happens, the screen shifts over to the next screen instead of scrolling down an icon. And it will keep doing it as I try to re-adjust.

The discrete directional and incremental movements of a dpad all overcome this. And, as I pointed out, the limitations of a dpad are completely overcome by using the touch screen itself. The touch screen, IMO, has the same problems as the trackball: both are best for large movements, not fine detail movements (the touch screen is that way due to fingers that are fatter than the links/widgets you're touching, and the trackball is that way due to over-sensitivity). Using them together means they're duplicate each other's weaknesses without complimenting each other's strengths (because they have the exact same strengths and weaknesses). The dpad, however, has the opposite strength/weakness as the touch screen (for scrolling), and thus compliments it perfectly.

Now, this would be different if Android had a control for adjusting the sensitivity of the trackball. If you could give it accelleration or something, such that slight movements as you press it are completely ignored, or so that short rolls produce almost no movement on the screen, but long rolls produce much faster movement ... that might fix the problem. But, I haven't seen, nor found, any such control for the trackball.

 

[RozzaC]

I find it to be awkward and inaccurate for navigating. I'm always over-shooting my target with it, often multiple times. For example, trying to hit some of the smaller widgets in Google Reader ("keep unread" for example), it's incredibly easy to overshoot the check box both horizontally and vertically, and thus hit the wrong thing (like select the next article, or a url at the bottom of hte current article, due to a last minute shift of the trackball as you press it; or even just difficulty selecting the item before you press it).

Small subtle moves just don't work well with it, where they work pretty flawlessly with a dpad -- you always move one increment. For larger moves, where a trackball can be much faster than a dpad, I can just finger-scroll on the touch screen.

It's also directionally inaccurate. Sometimes, on the home screen for example, if I need to vertically scroll with the trackball among icons along a screen edge, the G1 will get confused by the slightest horizontal movement of the trackball (like, if I am not perfectly vertical in the trackball movement, but am off by just 5 degrees in my angle of motion). When that happens, the screen shifts over to the next screen instead of scrolling down an icon. And it will keep doing it as I try to re-adjust.

The discrete directional and incremental movements of a dpad all overcome this. And, as I pointed out, the limitations of a dpad are completely overcome by using the touch screen itself. The touch screen, IMO, has the same problems as the trackball: both are best for large movements, not fine detail movements (the touch screen is that way due to fingers that are fatter than the links/widgets you're touching, and the trackball is that way due to over-sensitivity). Using them together means they're duplicate each other's weaknesses without complimenting each other's strengths (because they have the exact same strengths and weaknesses). The dpad, however, has the opposite strength/weakness as the touch screen (for scrolling), and thus compliments it perfectly.

Now, this would be different if Android had a control for adjusting the sensitivity of the trackball. If you could give it accelleration or something, such that slight movements as you press it are completely ignored, or so that short rolls produce almost no movement on the screen, but long rolls produce much faster movement ... that might fix the problem. But, I haven't seen, nor found, any such control for the trackball.

I'll agree with you about the over-shooting....that happens pretty often with me...

But I know the reason why I over-shoot....
It's because I mindlessly spin the trackball at times and it goes too far...

When it does...I can just spin it the opposite direction a little softer and it hits my target...pretty easily actually...

As for inaccuracies....again...I'm just mindlessly spinning the ball when it goes in a weird direction...so again..the solution is simple....just be a little more careful with my spinning...

But...each to their own....

 

[dynodroid]

Yeah, the trackball takes a little bit of getting used to. After a while you can master it, it doesn't always overshoot. It's trickier with a touchscreen because you're switching back and forth when navigating. First you use the touchscreen and then you switch to the trackball and your perception is a little off. So it takes a little longer to get used to.

Unlike on Blackblerries, which have no touchscreen you get used to the trackball rather quickly.

I suppose this is is my own personal observation and I could be alone on this one. The whole overshooting thing is what makes them quicker and easier than directional pads. One spin and you're there, as with a d-pad it'll take multiple clicks.

 

[johnkzin]

Personally, I really like the G1, both software and hardware.
My G1 is my baby!

I'm 75% with you.

The battery and the trackball are the killers for me. I don't think I need to explain the battery, and I just gave a long post about the trackball. For me, the other actual flaw of the device is the data port.

I don't care about 3.5mm vs 2.5mm, but I do care about having to buy a separate adapter just to talk and charge at the same time. Or about how awkward it is to type and talk, or type and charge, at the same time, due to the cord sticking out into my palm as I'm trying to hold the device.

If it weren't for those things, I wouldn't look for a new phone for quite a while. And I doubt I'll go for any phone that doesn't have a 5 row physical keyboard (I _love_ the dedicated number row, since some of my online passwords are mixed text and numbers, and having to remember "am I in number mode or text mode" is just f'n annoying). But, there are somethings that I think could be better on the G1 even if they're not quite flaws:

1) the screen movement -- I'd really like a tilt screen, like the HTC Rhodium, or Nokia N97. Especially if it will still sit flat on its back with the screen tilted (so you sort of use it like a kickstand for the phone).

2) I'm used to the Nokia N800/N810 for my pocketable internet device. I'd REALLY love to have a my phone be that big. 4.1" screen, 5"x3"-ish device. I realize that's too big for many people, but that's what I want.

3) Similar to screen size, I want more resolution. Again, I'm used to 800x480.


The ideal for me would be something shaped like the Rhodium or N97, with tilt screen. 5"x3" with a 4.1" or 4.3" screen that is 800x480 (or more). Charger/data port shifted toward the corner (near where the red button is on the G1). 2.5mm or 3.5mm headset jack at the opposite end from the charger/data port (so, on the G1, it would be on the short end at the "top" of the phone when holding it vertically, between the status light and the right corner). It would have a 5row keyboard almost exactly like the G1's (except maybe with a control and an escape key). And it would have LOTS of freakin' battery, RAM, and internal storage. More emphsis on battery than RAM and storage, but fill whatever space is left with maximizing those 3 things.

Oh, and, this one is a quirk I'd like to see, and don't really expect in a mainstream phone outside of China: dual SIM cards. dual SIM cards and quadband UMTS/HSPA (euro, asian, AT&T, and T-Mobile) in addition to quadband GSM.

Unfortunately, there aren't any phones out there that are like that. Until then, the G1 is pretty much the best phone I've found. The Rhodium might be a little better, but it has one fatal flaw: it has crap for an OS. I don't see myself ever buying a non Android phone again (as long as Android exists).

 

[johnkzin]

I've been using the trackball as much as I can since early October when I got my G1. It doesn't get any better. Fine detail movement is just for crap on it.

(now, I will give you that it's my first trackball phone, so maybe it takes years of trackball use, and some of you are used to blackberry phones so you've got that ... but I don't see why I should have to spend years getting used to it, when I can solve the problem more more easily with a dpad, and not lose anything in the process (since, as I said, the touch screen provides the same scrolling/movement strengths as the trackball))

 

[RozzaC]

I figured out how the trackball works after like...a few minutes..

Can't say I've mastered it yet becauseI don't use it all that often...

But I'm pretty good at using it...

 

[johnkzin]

I figured out how the trackball works after like...a few minutes..

Perhaps, then, it's not a matter of "figuring it out" / "getting used to it". Perhaps it genuinely has the limitations I'm talking about. Imagine that, intelligent people having diametrically opposed experiences/opinions. Who'da thunk?




(just because I disagree with you trackball lovers doesn't mean I'm just not experienced enough with it, or I haven't figured it out, or I haven't gotten used to it; different people have different preferences, and for me, the trackball is crap)

 

[RozzaC]

Perhaps, then, it's not a matter of "figuring it out" / "getting used to it". Perhaps it genuinely has the limitations I'm talking about. Imagine that, intelligent people having diametrically opposed experiences/opinions. Who'da thunk?




(just because I disagree with you trackball lovers doesn't mean I'm just not experienced enough with it, or I haven't figured it out, or I haven't gotten used to it; different people have different preferences, and for me, the trackball is crap)

Just because you disagree with us it doesn't mean the trackball is crap either...

At the end of the day...whether something is perfect or whether its filled with flaws and problems...the fact of the matter is....you just gotta get used to it....

And besides...you are just one person out of how many G1 owners?

Because you say the trackball is flawed...does it make it a fact?

I would understand if a majority was saying.."This trackball is lame..its so blah blah blah"..

At the end of the day...I've probably had LESS practice with the trackball than you have...and it seems I've gotten used to it more than you have....

I'm not saying the trackball is great...I'm not saying the trackball is crap...and I'm not saying I'm any better than you because you don't like the trackball...and I do..

I'm saying...that I'm used to it and it works fine for me....

I have no experience with another phone that has a trackball so I have nothing to compare it against....maybe you do...

 

[crazy88]

Perhaps, then, it's not a matter of "figuring it out" / "getting used to it". Perhaps it genuinely has the limitations I'm talking about. Imagine that, intelligent people having diametrically opposed experiences/opinions. Who'da thunk?




(just because I disagree with you trackball lovers doesn't mean I'm just not experienced enough with it, or I haven't figured it out, or I haven't gotten used to it; different people have different preferences, and for me, the trackball is crap)

while i previously disagreed, i have just spent about 1minute trying to reply to your post due to trackball issues, haha i fail! hopefully i will learn to use it. i am still getting used to the whole os anyway since i only just got this thing today.

plus, i think your trackball idea is great...its like a variable pitch steering rack but for trackballs

 

[RozzaC]

while i previously disagreed, i have just spent about 1minute trying to reply to your post due to trackball issues, haha i fail! hopefully i will learn to use it. i am still getting used to the whole os anyway since i only just got this thing today.

plus, i think your trackball idea is great...its like a variable pitch steering rack but for trackballs

Lol...

 

[johnkzin]

Just because you disagree with us it doesn't mean the trackball is crap either...

I said "for me" right before I said it's crap. So, yes, because I disagree, then that does mean that FOR ME the trackball is crap. My statement stands as completely valid.

At the end of the day...whether something is perfect or whether its filled with flaws and problems...the fact of the matter is....you just gotta get used to it....

No, you don't. No, I don't. No amount of eating liver will make me a fan of liver. I do not have to be a lemming and "get used to it", and just keep eating it in some vain hopes that I can blend in with the crowd and eventually like it. I can, instead, make a choice and eat foods that fit my personal tastes.

Similarly, I can advocate for, and purchase, devices that have interfaces that suit my individual tastes and preferences. Such as advocating for an Android phone that has both a physical keyboard and Dpad. Or pointing out the manner in which a touch screen and dpad compliment each other in a way that a touch screen and trackball don't, and thus giving kudos to a device that embraces a Dpad and eschews a trackball.

Because you say the trackball is flawed...does it make it a fact?

Is English your first langauge? because, clearly, you need to go back to school and learn how to read.

"for me" makes it a relative statement, based upon personal preferences.

Relative statements and statements of personal preference don't need to be factually backed up. They are statements of opinion. They can be correlated to factual data, people can try to support them with factual data, but ultimately opinions are not themselves factual.

You should have learned that in grade school.

At the end of the day...I've probably had LESS practice with the trackball than you have...and it seems I've gotten used to it more than you have....

OR ... you took to it quickly because it suits your behaviors, applications, etc. better than it suits mine, and no amount of "getting used to it" will fix it.

I'm saying...that I'm used to it and it works fine for me....

Right. For YOU.

And, for me, it's crap.

I have no experience with another phone that has a trackball so I have nothing to compare it against....maybe you do...

I just addressed that in a previous post. Really, "Reading is Fundamental". You should look into it.

 

[RozzaC]

I said "for me" right before I said it's crap. So, yes, because I disagree, then that does mean that FOR ME the trackball is crap. My statement stands as completely valid.

No, you don't. No, I don't. No amount of eating liver will make me a fan of liver. I do not have to be a lemming and "get used to it", and just keep eating it in some vain hopes that I can blend in with the crowd and eventually like it. I can, instead, make a choice and eat foods that fit my personal tastes.

Similarly, I can advocate for, and purchase, devices that have interfaces that suit my individual tastes and preferences. Such as advocating for an Android phone that has both a physical keyboard and Dpad. Or pointing out the manner in which a touch screen and dpad compliment each other in a way that a touch screen and trackball don't, and thus giving kudos to a device that embraces a Dpad and eschews a trackball.

Then don't you think it would be a lot easier to just buy that "oh so perfect for you" phone rather than complain about your current phone's supposed shortcomings?

Is English your first langauge? because, clearly, you need to go back to school and learn how to read.

"for me" makes it a relative statement, based upon personal preferences.

Relative statements and statements of personal preference don't need to be factually backed up. They are statements of opinion. They can be correlated to factual data, people can try to support them with factual data, but ultimately opinions are not themselves factual.

You should have learned that in grade school.

You're just undermining my intelligence here...so I'm even going to waste my time with replying to this....

OR ... you took to it quickly because it suits your behaviors, applications, etc. better than it suits mine, and no amount of "getting used to it" will fix it.

Actually....that's just you being stubborn and not making do with what you have...

A D-Pad isn't a necessity in your life...it's a preference...

If you learned to make do with what you have in front of you...there'd be no reason to complain...

I just addressed that in a previous post. Really, "Reading is Fundamental". You should look into it.

Again...undermining my intelligence...you're no better than I am so don't talk to me like you are...

 

[sergey]

Everyone is suddenly being a bit harsh on the Magic

It's still got double the memory ofthe G1 and according to early reviews is a very solidly built bit of kit... and it is rather stylish IMO.

I'm not saying the Samsung isn't very tasty (although I agree, I'd rather have trackball and you can't really fill 8gb with apps surely?) but the Magic was the darling of the show only a few weeks ago and extra memory and a flash isn't THAT revolutionary is it? And I'll bet you half a pint of weak lager an even better specced phone will be announced the second the Samsung hits the market.

Also, we're the sort of people that hang around on forums scrutinizing every little thing. A sexy little number like the Magic should sell very well off the shelf to less techy users IMO. Loadsa features in a cute little box... that's what the masses want.

And it's all good news for Android... that's the important bit

I agree with you on most points except we should be harsh on HTC for the lack of memory.

Doubling the memory sounds great except that this is 2009 and we should be talking gigabytes, not megabytes.

As the marketplace matures and developers start to get the hang of Android, we're going to go from Pac-Man to NBA Pro 09, the program size will jump from 1-2MB to 40-60MB. I don't want to buy the Magic now and not be sure if I can download a game next year because it will take up 86% of my internal memory. And right now there is no official information about running apps of the SD card.

How frustrating would it be to see all these great programs for Android and know that you can't use them because you don't have enough memory?

 

[dynodroid]

I've been using the trackball as much as I can since early October when I got my G1. It doesn't get any better. Fine detail movement is just for crap on it.

(now, I will give you that it's my first trackball phone, so maybe it takes years of trackball use, and some of you are used to blackberry phones so you've got that ... but I don't see why I should have to spend years getting used to it, when I can solve the problem more more easily with a dpad, and not lose anything in the process (since, as I said, the touch screen provides the same scrolling/movement strengths as the trackball))

It doesn't take years, like I explained in my post before. Blackberries use the trackball as its main source of navigation.

If all you had on your G1 was a trackball, and no touchscreen, you'd get used to it quite quickly aswell.