Apple and other mega-corporations and the U.S. economy

[A.Nonymous]

Apple is indeed a public company, and no... unless you are a shareholder, it is really not your business.

I have no idea if I'm a shareholder or not. I own several mutual funds and I would not be shocked at all to learn that one or more of them is holding a share or two of Apple stock. But regardless, it's still my business because I am always a potential investor at the very least. And as a potential investor it's my business to see that what I'm considering investing in is a well run business. What a company pays it's CEOs contributes to overhead that will have to be offset somewhere.

 

[Bob Maxey]

My point is, the reason the jobs were outsourcing was not to make the products cheaper. Name one product that decreased in price after outsourcing. The reason they were outsourcing, is so the exec could inflate their pay exponentially.

I can name a product that when we outsourced it, the costs were higher. We once had a production issue and we were forced into using Foxcomm. Eventually, we stayed with Fox as our supplier for touch screens and TS controller boards. More costly, however.

I also know of a China based laptop manufacturer that outsourced to us, here in Utah. The reason? We were less costly and quality was high.

It can work either way.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I have no idea if I'm a shareholder or not. I own several mutual funds and I would not be shocked at all to learn that one or more of them is holding a share or two of Apple stock. But regardless, it's still my business because I am always a potential investor at the very least. And as a potential investor it's my business to see that what I'm considering investing in is a well run business. What a company pays it's CEOs contributes to overhead that will have to be offset somewhere.

So don't invest in Apple. Or any other company if you think pay is too high.

I personally think Apple is where it is because of Steve Jobs. If SJ was paid 500 million per year, it might be viewed as a great investment of capital.

 

[nlsme]

I am still waiting on a product, that was once made in the USA, where the product became cheaper AFTER it was outsourced. Look at ANY company that has outsourced, and you will notice an exponential growth in the pay of their execs.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I am still waiting on a product, that was once made in the USA, where the product became cheaper AFTER it was outsourced. Look at ANY company that has outsourced, and you will notice an exponential growth in the pay of their execs.

Apple Computer Corporation outsources iPad manufacturing and Steve Jobs is paid a dollar per year. But you are correct, I think he started making fifty six cents per year.

Be very careful putting the word "any" in caps because you might discover that you are in error.

In my personal case, nobody in the U.S. of A. manufacturers what I require so I shop in Japan.

 

[nlsme]

So provide one. So what if Steve jobs makes a dollar a year. He isn't the only exec at Apple.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I am still waiting on a product, that was once made in the USA, where the product became cheaper AFTER it was outsourced. Look at ANY company that has outsourced, and you will notice an exponential growth in the pay of their execs.

I gave you examples of cases where the cost to manufacture the product went up and it caused the cost of the product to go up. Not sure what else you're looking for. Increased production costs almost always equals increased costs for the end user.

 

[nlsme]

I am waiting on someone to name a product that was once manufactured in America, that was outsourced, and the price went down. You did not list one. The reason I want someone to list something like this, is because I want someone to try and disprove that the reason that companies outsource is NOT to make a product cheaper for the end consumer, but rather, to inflate the pay of the execs.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I am waiting on someone to name a product that was once manufactured in America, that was outsourced, and the price went down. You did not list one. The reason I want someone to list something like this, is because I want someone to try and disprove that the reason that companies outsource is NOT to make a product cheaper for the end consumer, but rather, to inflate the pay of the execs.

Ok. Let's do this.

Cost of manufacturing a good is more expensive here in the States.
Move manufacturing to the States and production costs go up.
Production costs go up, cost of goods goes up.

There are numerous examples of this. It's impossible to name a product that was once made in the States. We haven't done manufacturing in the States in decades. At least not on any sort of mass level.

 

[nlsme]

Costs of goods go up, OR they would have to cut the execs bloated pay. Your missing my point, and I have put it pretty bluntly more than once. Outsourcing wasn't done to make the goods cheaper to the end consumer, IT WAS DONE SO THE EXECS COULD INFLATE THEIR PAY. Prove me wrong. Name one product that was made in the US, outsourced, and the price to the end consumer went down. Now, look at the executive pay on ANY company that has embraced outsourcing, it has increased exponentially.

 

[dan330]

the thing is..

if a product/service was made in usa and was forced to go off-shore.. there was a reason for the move. it was hurting.. loosing money... looking at banckrupcy.. or loosing market share.. or could not afford to keep up with advancement.

the solution was to outsource some of the product, support, or service to reduce the cost in one or more areas... so that the saving can be up to other areas. like better R&D, more functions, better quality in other areas, or bring back a profit margin.


you are assuming that the product/service was making a high margin of profit.. then they outsourced for more profit margin. in business if the profit is too high, it brings in more competition.

 

[nlsme]

Im not assuming anything. Executive pay has increased exponentially. Indisputable fact. Still waiting on a product that the cost to the end user was lowered after it was outsourced.

 

[JimmyRayBob]

You know ... small businesses would certainly invest more in the U.S. if they (we) weren't so afraid of what our government will do next ... to the detriment of business (Obamacare is a GREAT example). That's why a lot of U.S. companies are sitting on profits - they are AFRAID and want to keep CASH for when they NEED it.

and YES, i speak from first hand experience. My company will not expand, despite having cash on hand, because of Obama. Plain and simple.

 

[JimmyRayBob]

Im not assuming anything. Executive pay has increased exponentially. Indisputable fact. Still waiting on a product that the cost to the end user was lowered after it was outsourced.

Hmm.... computers??????? Outsourced the tech support to keep costs down ... the service may stink, but the computers are certainly cheaper.

Companies that keep the tech support in the US have to charge more for their computers ... and then they don't sell because they are more expensive.

 

[JimmyRayBob]

Im not assuming anything. Executive pay has increased exponentially. Indisputable fact.

If CEO pay is so outrageously high - why don't you go get one of those jobs??? Could it be because you don't have the talent / knowledge to do the job?

I would LOVE to be CEO of a large company making millions of dollars ... but i don't have the talent / ability / experience / knowledge.

 

[nlsme]

Computers can still cost thousands upon thousands. The prices did not go down because of outsourcing. The costs went down because of moores law. A high end computer can cost just as much, if not more, than a high end computer of yester-year.

 

[nlsme]

If CEO pay is so outrageously high - why don't you go get one of those jobs??? Could it be because you don't have the talent / knowledge to do the job?

I would LOVE to be CEO of a large company making millions of dollars ... but i don't have the talent / ability / experience / knowledge.

I own a small business. I don't make 10,000 times more than any of my employees. The ceo's of the past didn't either. Not until companies started outsourcing, did the pay of ceo's start exploding. Get it.

 

[JimmyRayBob]

Computers can still cost thousands upon thousands. The prices did not go down because of outsourcing. The costs went down because of moores law. A high end computer can cost just as much, if not more, than a high end computer of yester-year.

Of course the price of parts went down ... but so did the price of tech support when it was outsourced. Whey would Dell / HP / or anyone else outsource tech support to India when they know perfectly well that US customers would rather speak with a US based tech support person. WHY would they do that?????????????? To lower the cost of the product obviously. So they can sell more computers. And make more profit. Which their salary might very well be tied to (executive compensation is often tied to company performance / stock price). So if they want to make more money - they need to sell more computers. And to sell more computers, those computers need to be less expensive to make and sell than their competitors computers. SO THEY OUTSOURCE.

 

[nlsme]

You know ... small businesses would certainly invest more in the U.S. if they (we) weren't so afraid of what our government will do next ... to the detriment of business (Obamacare is a GREAT example). That's why a lot of U.S. companies are sitting on profits - they are AFRAID and want to keep CASH for when they NEED it.

and YES, i speak from first hand experience. My company will not expand, despite having cash on hand, because of Obama. Plain and simple.

I would say it is more because of the dramatic swings. A company can adapt to any situation, it is the constant swings that scare them. My company (the one I own), actually wishes "ObamaCare" was what Obama actually pushed for, before the Republicans demanded no public option. Now, "ObamaCare" is nothing more than MORE corporate welfare.

 

[dan330]

this discussion feels frustrating sometimes.

 

[nlsme]

Of course the price of parts went down ... but so did the price of tech support when it was outsourced. Whey would Dell / HP / or anyone else outsource tech support to India when they know perfectly well that US customers would rather speak with a US based tech support person. WHY would they do that?????????????? To lower the cost of the product obviously. So they can sell more computers. And make more profit. Which their salary might very well be tied to (executive compensation is often tied to company performance / stock price). So if they want to make more money - they need to sell more computers. And to sell more computers, those computers need to be less expensive to make and sell than their competitors computers. SO THEY OUTSOURCE.

Dude, the prices of computers did not go down because of IT outsourcing. The pay to the execs went UP because of IT outsourcing.

 

[nlsme]

this discussion feels frustrating sometimes.

So, you can name a product that prices to the consumer went down after outsourcing? Computers? NO, the price of a high end computer is the same, IF NOT MORE than the price of high end computers in the past. Has the pay of the execs at EVERY company that outsourced exploded? YES.

 

[JimmyRayBob]

Dude, the prices of computers did not go down because of IT outsourcing. The pay to the execs went UP because of IT outsourcing.

wow ... you just don't get it. It is WAY more complicated than simply outsourcing something and raising executive pay.

If the price of computers (in part - everyone knows parts get cheaper all the time too) did not go down because of outsourcing - WHY DID THEY DO IT?????? wouldn't you rather speak with a US based tech support person?

Why does any company OUTSOURCE?? To lower the cost of production / support. You asked for an example of a product that got cheaper because of outsourcing and i gave you an example. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[JimmyRayBob]

So, you can name a product that prices to the consumer went down after outsourcing? Computers? NO, the price of a high end computer is the same, IF NOT MORE than the price of high end computers in the past. Has the pay of the execs at EVERY company that outsourced exploded? YES.

Oh my - I gave you an example. Computers. I did NOT SAY "high end computers", I said Computers. Think of the simple, $500 computer you buy at Best Buy. It is most certainly cheaper now than it would be if they did not outsource the tech support. Why else would they do it??????? Does Dell think we enjoy talking to someone in India instead of Dallas?

 

[nlsme]

I asked for a product that got cheaper TO THE END USER BECAUSE OF OUTSOURCING. Computers do NOT fall into that category. You even said that the prices fall over time, and everybody knows that. NOW, the pay of the execs at those companies HAS exploded. Why is it so hard to understand?