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Apple considering cheaper - and larger - Android-like phones...

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by PSkeptic, Feb 11, 2011.

  1. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Srsly? A company making laptops with multiple screen sizes and now finally gets that phones also require choices has been whining that we have had that as one of our choices on our phones?

    [​IMG]
     

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  2. jamor

    jamor Android Expert
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    Nah, not really. Having a variety of different phones is a lot different than being on 2 networks which many expected..

    This move would be very "unapple like".

    Just sayin..
     
  3. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Please explain in light of my earlier post - the single iPod became a line, their single laptop became a line, the iMac became a line, how is the iPhone becoming a line any different?

    In what way is this unapple like?

    Your claim is being repeated but repetition is not substantiation.
     
  4. ElasticNinja

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    flash lite doesn't work on 2.2 or 2.3
    just throwing that in
     
  5. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Why would you want Flash Lite when with 2.2+ you get full Flash???
     
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  6. Vihzel

    Vihzel Destroying Balls Everyday
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    I think that flash will really only be beneficial in dual core phones, like with the Atrix 4G because they can display and play flash a lot better than current single core phones. I know that flash lagged my X so much that I disabled it. I understand why Apple didn't want flash because it made web browsing sluggish. I will only turn on flash if I absolutely feel like it's necessary, which hasn't happened yet. Scrolling without flash is so much nicer than with it. I don't like jerkiness. Heh
     
  7. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Wish we could compare phones side by side so I could see what you mean - words have so many meanings. :(

    OK - so - if you're talking about things like an embedded YouTube video on a webpage, and I scroll left-right quickly (like a shimmy - no, that's generational - like a shudder) then the video is slightly unpinned and it kinda hula dances to keep up with the page. On my Evo, it's noticeable but not at all bad. On WifelyMon's Evo Shift, it does that a little more, despite it having a better GPU (HTC's stuff is hardware optimized, so I'd have expected better in that regard on her Shift than my Evo) - but - I don't experience lag under that scenario. If I set the browser to just do "plug-ins on demand" then I get a nice little static glyph (picture-placeholder, same size as the vid) for the video that I can then tap to launch it.

    I care a bit about websites I hate but must visit, that use Flash instead of more modern stuff for entry, navigation, etc, etc. I'll have to find one of those and see if that's the sort of case you're talking about.

    Otherwise - I'm not experiencing the lag and jerkiness you describe - unless I am and I'm using other names for it.

    Vihzel, if you have a website that you post a link to, I'd sure like to try it on my phone and compare notes - at least get on the same page with the same terms as you, thanks in advance if you can.

    As for displaying - until those dogs took it down, I was watching full episodes of Babylon 5 at slashcontrol.com on my phone and it was great - 3G or wifi, wifi much better, naturally.

    edit and PS -

    And Flash is without a doubt CPU intensive. I saw something on it in Phandroid.com or Engadget or Ars Technica this last week - either a Flash update or a processor update specifically to address the cpu-hogging it tends to do.
     
  8. A.Nonymous

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    Apple has never made a product in recent years that was priced to compete with entry level products from competitors. I can get a really nice netbook for $400-500. You can't get a MacBook for that price.
     
  9. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    OK, if that's the issue, then I think we're still back at the rumor stage on pricing.

    That said, here's my rebuttal -

    Apple does make entry level products with entry level pricing - for their market, for their demographic, that's the catch.

    And - they're flexible with their proclamations. For the longest time, we heard that that original iPod was never coming out in a cheaper version - and it didn't - but then - surprise! - flash memory! - and the lower-priced iPod nano appeared.

    I call your attention to: iPhone 4 & iPhone 3GS - Apple Store (U.S.)

    Note the iP3GS selling for a mere 50 smackers, that's been going on for over a month as memory serves.

    If that's working out for them, no reason they would NOT have an updated device with more pizazz (per their eyes, their demographic - per their bottom line on economy of scale production) at that same price point as opposed to continuing the risk of reputation that that's just an inventory-dumping sale.

    Still looking Apple-like to me:

    1. Make claims for exclusivity
    2. Skim that market for as long as possible
    3. Announce some tech breakthrough as new leverage
    4. Introduce "new" version to hit the lower price point
    5. Continue claims of exclusivity with the lesser-capable product
    6. Lather, rinse, repeat for as long as takes to skim the market
    7. Every sale is an ecosystem reinforcement or customer base expansion to the ecosystem

    Remember: even with the iPod nano, the claim to fame was that incredible interface that would never change, that's the pure Apple music-playing magic.

    Until: iPod shuffle - Apple Store (U.S.)

    So - there's entry pricing and then there's entry pricing, now isn't there?
     
  10. Eazail70x7

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    I've been hearing rumors of multiple new iphones this year. 4 inch model, slide out keyboard model, normal model, nano model...
     
  11. ElasticNinja

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  12. Eazail70x7

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    Apple going to 4-inch display for iPhone 5? | TiPb

    What I find interesting are the comments posted after th article. It seems like the majority infact desire bigger displays on phones. Something many of us android users enjoy currently. ;)

    Who would switch to a 4 inch iphone?
     
  13. jamor

    jamor Android Expert
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    It’s very different because Apple’s iPhone business model didn't want to become a line, but to have 1 model each year. For groupies to salivate for 365 days and buy it THAT day as if it is the coming of christ. It was quite obvious.


    Your claim is being repeated too but with inherent flaws and the inability to see the differences between new pieces of technology and developing technology.

    Of course some new devices start slowly and then evolve into a line; so, it doesn’t support your argument unfortunately.

    The iPhone story is a different scenario.



    Much different – this was a natural evolution of a new technology. Digital players were new and once they had the chance to diversify, they did as quickly as possible.

    Digital/Mp3 players had just been born in 1998-9 (and not by Apple). The single iPod (released at the end of 2001) was the beginning of a new era where mp3 players weren’t at the point where they could be smaller with different amenities and smaller form factors. Apple didn’t have the resources to make an iPod Mini/Nano that held pictures, radio, and could fit in the palm of your hand at the size of a couple fingers in 2001.

    Only 2 years and 2 months later, as technology progressed, devices could be smaller and mp3 player demand soared. Apple jumped on that using their plentiful resources from the iPod success to split their mp3 players into multiple marketing segments starting with the Mini which is smaller and less expensive.. and shortly after the photo, nano, shuffle, etc.


    The laptop was basically a line from the beginning.

    Apple first released one model in 1989; but, because of the price and size, they couldn’t create a line yet. They were $7,000!!! You can’t compare this to the Phone industry.

    2 years later (1991) Apple released a line (THREE power books right off the bat - Powerbook 100, 140, and 170). They then continued to further their already growing line in the 90s. The Apple laptop was only a single device for barely 2 years and for obvious reasons (financial), unlike the iPhone in which there are no excuses.

    This was a choice – and a quick choice.


    The iPhone is so much different. This was a choice for them to keep and use only one phone… to not split it into marketing segments. They wanted everyone using one device. With their reputation and financial stability, there was no reason these phones couldn’t be made in different types and sizes. They chose to go the route of having ONE iPhone. Something Apple geeks could get together and rejoice about without having to say “mine is better than yours.” A sense of unity You have an iPhone and that’s all that matters. A status icon if you will.

    You have to remember that in 2003 their stock was only $10 per share. Look at it now.

    It has been almost FOUR years and they still release only one iPhone and one size. Clearly this was a business model. They certainly aren’t short on resources or the technological ability to make different phones of different sizes.

    This is to the contrary of their laptops and especially their mp3 players which despite being “new technology” split into different marketing segments within 2 years.

    Google/Android manufacturers (and other companies) have made a plethora of touch phones of all shapes, types, and sizes. Their business model was diversification.


    So I stand by my statement that iPhone becoming a line is different.. Apple is definitely going against their iPhone business model of having 1 model (normally 1 per year) because they feel that they have to. Not by choice, unlike their computers and mp3 player industry. But because Android is taking over and if they don’t change their business model of the same phone each year, they will eventually fail.
     
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  14. LoyalServant

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  15. IOWA

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  16. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    It's in Apple's corporate nature to be adaptive.

    You believe that the iPod's business model changed because of technology. Why? Do you think they woke up and said, "Wow, we owe it to people to give them this new technology?" Of course not, they were capitalizing on the iTMS.

    The iPhone was introduced by Jobs with one simple statement: This is the best iPod we've ever made, and it even makes phone calls.

    They planned for this long ago, and yes, Android is a part of it, but they planned for AN Android in any case.

    This all ties to their timing of freedom from ATT here.

    Unless I missed it, and Apple gets a cut of the monthly bill from phone bills worldwide, then it's still true that to them, it's still their best iPod, driving users to their store for follow-on sales, and it still happens to make phone calls.

    To think otherwise would be to believe their marketing, in my opinion.
     
  17. JunBringer

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    I would like it if they made a 3 inch iPhone nano and bumped the regular iPhone up to 4 inches. Especially if they did this with the iPod Touch and made a 128GB model :)

    I still like Apple products, despite my avatar.
     
  18. Spiffing

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    Apple have priced the iPad to kill. It seems that nobody can produce an Android pad to compete.
     
  19. byteware

    byteware Android Expert
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    I disagree. The iPhone's ONLY real marketing power right now is that it's hip and cool.

    Being behind the techological curve was great when they were the only option people thought they had...


    However, with 53% of the US smartphone buyers picking up ANDROID, it's going to be harder and harder to consider something with such limited functionality as "hip", and "cool".
     
  20. byteware

    byteware Android Expert
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    I disagree. Their corporate nature is to hit on something, and ride it until the company nears bankruptcy.

    I don't really think so. If so, this has to be the absolute WORST plan ever.

    I think they believed that they had YEARS before they would have any real competition, and could sit on their laurels. However, Android became so powerful so quickly that they quickly found themselves behind the technological curveball.
     
  21. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Despite what they've done in the 2Ks, they'll just never live down the '80s and '90s, huh?

    And that didn't do exactly that with the iPhone - how???

    Yeah - maybe only sarcasm can make the point at this juncture:

    It's amazing that the guys that had their heads handed to them by Microsoft never learned anything. They accidentally rose from bankruptcy to a force to be reckoned with. They did that by all by being stupid. And it never once occurred to them to either change into another Microsoft, or to instead expect the next Microsoft (in this case Android) as an inevitable outcome to their luxury marketing, but to be prepared ahead of time with adaptive marketing.

    You're right - they're total imbeciles.

    You're all completely right.

    And it's so unApple-like of them to not accept defeat and go bankrupt because they've never been surprised before.
     
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  22. byteware

    byteware Android Expert
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    If they were making changes in order to better compete, then I would say yes... however they are behaving now just as they did in the '80s and '90s. If you want me to give them credit for change, then they need to actually make changes.

    Yes, they made some headway after bankruptcy. They found something that works. They've become insanely profitable, and they intend to ride that out until they find themselves in bankruptcy again.


    I think you're confused, that's exactly what I think THEY DID do with the iPhone.



    How do you see them changing to deal with the Android competition? How do you see them handling Android any differently than they handled Windows?

    I agree that they SHOULD have learned. I don't agree that they DID.
     
  23. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Perhaps.

    Then we're in agreement and some miscommunication is corrected.

    Please.

    Part of the fail with Microsoft involved intellectual property theft, Woz getting a head injury and being put out of commission, Jobs' second round of maniacal tendencies surfacing followed by Scully's driving the company directly into the ground.

    You seem to forget that Apple was once the lost-cost everyone's solution and Microsoft was their ally.

    Gates and Jobs had phenomenal success - so much so that most people seem blinded to criticisms of either without resorting to revisionist histories or folklore.

    Jobs was in his fourth round of maniacal tendendies when this latest round health issues occurred.

    If they fail this time, it's more likely going be over the power vacuum and the corporation attempting to obviously re-define itself while trying to assure stockholders that they are and simultaneously are not trying to do that.

    By definition of time and circumstance, they cannot handle this latest threat the way they did with Microsoft.

    I've posted repeatedly that the iPhone is to our smarphone segment was the Ford T Model was to the car industry.

    It wasn't the first, it wasn't the best, but it was ubiquitous and you could have it in any color you wanted so long as it was black.

    The T Model is gone, Ford is still around, cranking out a variety like others.

    I'm predicting the same for the iPhone and have been for months, with exactly that language.

    I believe it's self-evident that they've learned - I don't pretend to know if they've learned all they should or that even if they did, if they'll execute properly.

    I obviously continue to contend that the move to expand the iPhone into a line of devices is not unApple-like, because I know their history, too, and like others, I believe I know something about how they think.

    By the way - how about that iPad? It's one radio away from being a big iPhone.

    When Jobs came back, he came back with a new vision from when he left - instead of looking for volume he looked for profitability.

    Apple will be profitable or die - therefore, Apple will be profitable.

    Forget Jobs' theater, and look at them strictly as a business analyst.

    The theater greats like Jobs and Gates and Schmidt are very, very smart - but if you look past the surface, you'll find the leopards have never changed their spots - because none of these companies are really terribly clever.
     
  24. byteware

    byteware Android Expert
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    This is true in the short term. However, they are building all of this on the idea that the iPhone is cool and hip. As it slides further and further behind the technical curve of Android that's going to slip further and further away. There is a point where iOS devices will not be considered Cool/hip any longer, at that point they will cease to be profitable for Apple.

    They don't seem to be making any effort to push the iPhone back into a position of being technically superior, and seem to be holding onto the idea that Apple products will be cool because they have always been cool (there are exceptions).

    This is not a long term strategy that will see Apple in business 20 years down the road.
     
  25. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    They are marketing it that way, yes.

    Is it that you seem to be of the belief that they actually believe themselves what they want others to believe, or is that you think this marketing campaign is irreversible in the public's eye?

    You and I established long ago we move in different circles. I know of no one buying iPhones now because they're hip - only that they're established.

    Personally, I find the iPhone iOS so far behind Android technically, it's past funny and into numb.

    I think that by the time Ice Cream (sandwich) comes out, Apple's only choice will be to catch up or stay behind - there's nothing left on the roadmap that I can see that will sustain any breakaways in software performance that iOS could have.

    Unless the Android makers stall on a proper multi-core kernel and app support while iOS completely revamps, throws out iOS in favor of pre-emptive multi-tasking and gains proper 2-core control of things. That's the only area in s/w where they could even hope to get a short-term advantage - so - that could happen. Maybe.

    As far as hardware - srsly - it's not about cool, it's about sheeple. If I have to hear once more why I need a retinal display when instead I really need either transflective (Mirasol) or hybrid transreflective (Pixel Qi) on my phone, I'm likely to gag myself into a coma.

    And that's the nail on the head, right there: seem to be holding onto the idea that Apple products will be cool.

    With Jobs not long for the head spot, if anything, they're trying to figure out exactly if and how to maintain a cool factor - because that was driven by his persona and that was rooted in his street cred.

    The supply of aging hipsters that can appeal to a young, upscale crowd is in very short supply and that supply is diminishing with each passing year.

    By default.
     
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