Apple suing HTC

[Bunjiweb]

I think IF this comes to court it will take many years, but honestly I think apple will struggle to get any support on this case. Most of their patents that they are quoting are many years old and relate to desktop UIs rather than specifically on smartphones.

Don't think this will have any direct affect for a while to come.

Oh and this is yet another example why I am happy to live this side of the pond. No one in their right mind would try and patent a software feature in the UK, it can't be done because it drives an anti-competitive market and is far too specific.

I wish Apple would just F.O. and die, they are turning a huge number of people in to turtle neck wearing tech elitists.

Ben

 

[123Steve]

If I buy a Hamburger from burger king McDonald's hasn't lost money . Burger king hasn't stolen anything . If burger king was shut down and I couldn't get a whopper I still wouldn't go get a big mac , because big macs make me sh*t . McDonald's still won't get my money .

Or how about this logic , here in vancouver there are no turnstiles at skytrain , everyday hundreds of people don't buy tickets . The transit company every year publishes figures showing how much revenue they have lost because of this , usually millions of dollars .

They believe that they would get this money back if there were turnstiles installed .
Again here there is a flaw , no way to know how many if any of the cheaters would still use the system if they were forced to pay , presumably they weren't paying because they had no money so where are the lost millions supposed to come from ?

I don't get it ,

 

[adamajah]

Some interesting points from Nomura Securities:


Nomura:

 

[ekyle]

It shouldn't effect much.

HTC will still make Android devices.

I agree. I see this blowing over after awhile. Some money might get transferred but I doubt these broad patents would hold up against anything. I mean, one of them mentioned objected-oriented OS. What isn't and OO OS?

 

[gruss]

While I think it would be funny to see google buy apple and then shut it down, what would be even better would be for google to buy palm, use palm's patents to sue Apple into oblivion and watch the apple rot in the compost heap of the tech world.

 

[alexv]

i feel like if apple loses this lawsuit, it will be a big win for open source proponents...

 

[micromack]

i feel like if apple loses this lawsuit, it will be a big win for open source proponents...

Yes, believe it or not, the outcome of this is going to have a HUGE impact going forward for open source on mobile devices, good or bad.

 

[nx1977]

Lifted from Anonymous Coward's comment at Apple turns the flamethrower on Android ? El Reg Forums

Patent #7,362,331 is the motion physics thing you see in every game. (They are trying to patent damped harmonic motion in interfaces).
Patent #7,479,949 (Controlling by touch gestures) See palm and every prior touch device, they didn't invent any new gestures or otherwise here.
Patent #7,657,849: broad / obvious (unlocking by gesture). If they didn't invent gestures, then performing [action] by gesture is not special and Nokia had unlock prior to them.
Patent #7,469,381: Scrolling with underdamped harmonic motion, see all games consoles for examples of stuff scrolling in with underdamped harmonic motion.
Patent #6,424,354: , F*** off they did not invent that in 2002, it is the listener model of every clique C++ book.
Patent #7,383,453: Power saving by reducing voltage to command process section of processor. Not the inventor.

 

[micromack]

Lifted from Anonymous Coward's comment at Apple turns the flamethrower on Android ? El Reg Forums

Patent #7,362,331 is the motion physics thing you see in every game. (They are trying to patent damped harmonic motion in interfaces).
Patent #7,479,949 (Controlling by touch gestures) See palm and every prior touch device, they didn't invent any new gestures or otherwise here.
Patent #7,657,849: broad / obvious (unlocking by gesture). If they didn't invent gestures, then performing [action] by gesture is not special and Nokia had unlock prior to them.
Patent #7,469,381: Scrolling with underdamped harmonic motion, see all games consoles for examples of stuff scrolling in with underdamped harmonic motion.
Patent #6,424,354: , F*** off they did not invent that in 2002, it is the listener model of every clique C++ book.
Patent #7,383,453: Power saving by reducing voltage to command process section of processor. Not the inventor.

Unfortunately you don't have to be the inventor, just the first to patent it. I like everyone else, hope Apple implodes over this, but that's a fact. They should never have been granted the patents to begin with in my book, so we have our lovely US patent department to thank for this mess.

 

[jdailey1981]

Apple knows they are screwed. Why? Simple....they know android is a threat and going after the underdog. They are suing now because N1 in a few weeks....iPhone biggest threat. File suit now and slow momentum of android devices. Apple picks on HTC because they are small, but I don't see Google stepping aside. I see them filing countersuit and bury those apple pricks.

 

[nx1977]

Unfortunately you don't have to be the inventor, just the first to patent it. I like everyone else, hope Apple implodes over this, but that's a fact. They should never have been granted the patents to begin with in my book, so we have our lovely US patent department to thank for this mess.

Indeed. Apple havent invented anything. And as Winmob etc have had such interfaces before which they will have patented, makes you wonder how Apple managed to get their own patents for exactly the same thing.

Like the ipad. I mean, how can they patent a tablet PC that the likes of HP have been churning out for years?

 

[Hegemony]

Unfortunately you don't have to be the inventor, just the first to patent it. I like everyone else, hope Apple implodes over this, but that's a fact. They should never have been granted the patents to begin with in my book, so we have our lovely US patent department to thank for this mess.

The US Patent Office grants most stuff, and expects the courts to sort it out. It's stupid, but that's how it goes. Patents can be invalidated though if prior art can be found. In most of these cases, there is prior art. That's why this is a risky course of action for Apple.

 

[micromack]

The US Patent Office grants most stuff, and expects the courts to sort it out. It's stupid, but that's how it goes. Patents can be invalidated though if prior art can be found. In most of these cases, there is prior art. That's why this is a risky course of action for Apple.

I realize this, it's just a big cluster-*bleep* how things work. I think I'm going to patent nose picking, I can then sue every human being on the face of the planet for royalties.

 

[gruss]

I realize this, it's just a big cluster-*bleep* how things work. I think I'm going to patent nose picking, I can then sue every human being on the face of the planet for royalties.

Omg. I Would owe you like a million dollars.!

 

[bbrosen]

The thing I find strange is that one of the reasons Apple used to have so many fanboys is that it was the tree hugging alternative to the nasty and aggressive Microsoft._But over the last 10 years or so, Apple has turned into a pretty unpleasant. hyper-aggressive megacorps - way worse than MS In the 90s. Shame the fanboys haven't noticed yet

So who to hate next.....first it was Ibm, then Ms now it is Apple....who do we hate next? Google? Htc? Motorola?

Apple is just a company, started out in Jobs' garage. Google started out small too, two kids in college I believe. At what point does a company become evil? How many emplyees must they have? How much money? How many patents?

Google would be doing the same if the tables were reversed, I promise you. You think google and htc do not have patents? You think hey would not defend them? Really?

If you dont like the laws, change them , get involved with your government.
No one said a word a few years ago when these were filed, now all of a sudden evryone wants to challange Apple for this. Apple had the foresight, Google, Htc etc did not.

This case happwns to be apple, but it could be anyone and as long as it is legal i will defend them.

 

[srothkin]

I never understood this kind of stuff. Pinch to zoom, so apple came up with that for mobile phones...so what. So no one else can use it now? It's like saying hey guys, we have this great new advance in technology, but you can't use it at all in any of your technology.

While pinch to zoom and some other UI gestures that first appeared on the iPhone may seem intuitive now, they're not "obvious" and Apple was the first to develop the idea (presumably spending a good chunk of R&D money in the process).

So it is reasonable for Apple to get paid by other companies to use these innovations, as long as the licensing fee is reasonable. As long as they're not blocking competing products from the market -- that's anti-competitive.

 

[KRD]

Get this,
Oops, Underage Workers Could Have Built Your iPhone

 

[Thefoodman52]

Anybody got an umbrella I can borrow? That shit storm over there looks pretty heavy...

 

[gruss]

Hmmm perhaps I can patent using underage workers and sue apple? No with every company doing it it must be "obvious"

 

[Mamahnita]

Ok so court hhhmmmm wow Yeah I'm lost for words. I think it would shock us all if are phones had to appear in court what would they say.

 

[micromack]

So who to hate next.....first it was Ibm, then Ms now it is Apple....who do we hate next? Google? Htc? Motorola?

Apple is just a company, started out in Jobs' garage. Google started out small too, two kids in college I believe. At what point does a company become evil? How many emplyees must they have? How much money? How many patents?

Google would be doing the same if the tables were reversed, I promise you. You think google and htc do not have patents? You think hey would not defend them? Really?

If you dont like the laws, change them , get involved with your government.
No one said a word a few years ago when these were filed, now all of a sudden evryone wants to challange Apple for this. Apple had the foresight, Google, Htc etc did not.

This case happwns to be apple, but it could be anyone and as long as it is legal i will defend them.

I'll take a stab at this, all the companies you mentioned, yes, started small, and were basically a bunch of nobodies, trying to create something that would change the future, whether it be a OS, advanced search engine, or advanced computer hardware. None-the-less, these companies started and were able to succeed because they had the freedom to do so. Let's use google for an example.

Yahoo didn't sue Google for search engine patent enfringment as if they're the only company in the world allowed to create a web search engine. they let them compete, because that's how our markets create competition, it's called "a free market". Now you ask why is Apple Evil, along with Microsoft and the others? Who the hell is Apple to believe they can sue somebody for using a icon on their touch device to unlock it? That technology has been around long before iphone. You see they're evil when they block someone else from having success because they're greedy. Nokia didn't sue apple for stealing things they developed. In my opinion, Apple used to stand for freedom to bring great ideas to market, they've now flushed that and joined the ranks of Microsoft for being a greedy corporate joke. Bottom line, they sat on the iphone, let development slip and got fat pockets, now that the rest of the world is catching up, they're panicing. Screw Apple!

 

[bbrosen]

@micro

yes but did Yahoo have any patents protecting them?
yes true lots of things were invented by other people. Alexander bell did not invent the telephone, Elisha Gray did, but bell patented it first. So in legal terms it matters who patents first. It's our law. Like i said those who complain, change the law. No one said a word when apple filed these patents, why not? patent filings are public information. I am willing to bet even if anyone of you saw one of these patents the day they were filed, you would not have cared a wit. Ill bet good money on that.

No one is complaining about any of Google's patents, why? what if they were to defend one of their patents? they would you know. Look, it's a free country, hate who you want for what ever reasons, some people posting here may be kids, teenagers, and may not understand a lot of this and how the grown up world works. If any of you here are developers, and want to do so to support yourselves and your families, would you not want to protect your intellectual property? it all seems so silly for everyone to say how stupid it is and blah blah blah, but this is about peoples property, that they legally own now, whine all you want, it won't change that fact.

Besides, given the big possibility for a big time negative pall it could cast over the company, do you think they would do it if they felt it was frivulous? seems they are taking this pretty serious risk to their reputation for in some peoples words "just to be stupid"

Know what, if apple really does not have a case they will lose, and Htc and Google et all will be vindicated.

Yes i am a fan of apple, so what? i also like Google. i use Google chrome, gmail, Google voice, google search..i love their stuff, really do. One of the reasons i decided to try Android. It works pretty well with Google services.

Now I dislike google for the politics they run with, but it is not enough to stop me from using their products, for some it could be a deciding factor, to each their own i guess.

 

[bbrosen]

@NX

Here is a link to a patent that most would probably think is too broad too, about mimicking natural movements in nature.....


Focuson2 - Lampetra Project

see, they didn't invent these movements either, but they patented them!

You can patent methods too.

 

[gruss]

@micro

yes but did Yahoo have any patents protecting them?
yes true lots of things were invented by other people. Alexander bell did not invent the telephone, Elisha Gray did, but bell patented it first. So in legal terms it matters who patents first. It's our law. Like i said those who complain, change the law. No one said a word when apple filed these patents, why not? patent filings are public information. I am willing to bet even if anyone of you saw one of these patents the day they were filed, you would not have cared a wit. Ill bet good money on that.

No one is complaining about any of Google's patents, why? what if they were to defend one of their patents? they would you know. Look, it's a free country, hate who you want for what ever reasons, some people posting here may be kids, teenagers, and may not understand a lot of this and how the grown up world works. If any of you here are developers, and want to do so to support yourselves and your families, would you not want to protect your intellectual property? it all seems so silly for everyone to say how stupid it is and blah blah blah, but this is about peoples property, that they legally own now, whine all you want, it won't change that fact.

Besides, given the big possibility for a big time negative pall it could cast over the company, do you think they would do it if they felt it was frivulous? seems they are taking this pretty serious risk to their reputation for in some peoples words "just to be stupid"

Know what, if apple really does not have a case they will lose, and Htc and Google et all will be vindicated.

Yes i am a fan of apple, so what? i also like Google. i use Google chrome, gmail, Google voice, google search..i love their stuff, really do. One of the reasons i decided to try Android. It works pretty well with Google services.

Now I dislike google for the politics they run with, but it is not enough to stop me from using their products, for some it could be a deciding factor, to each their own i guess.

yeah ok, but Bell and grey were rushing to the patent office the SAME FREEKIN DAY! Bell did not patent the telephone a decade after grey invented it, produced it and sold it like it appears Apple has done with a couple of their "patents".

 

[SamuraiBigEd]

I, for one, would not be upset if pinch to zoom went away. I think HTC's original solution that was used on the Touch Pro was a far more natural solution, clockwise circle to zoom in, counter-clockwise to zoom out; simpler, cleaner, much finer control and done with one finger.

As far as the patents, most of them are laughable. The patent office is a complete joke that needs to be turned upside-down and completely revamped. You could probably get a patent on breathing now if you wanted to! They rubber stamp just about everything that comes through as long as it is not an exact copy of something else; as long as you change something, sometimes as simple as using bolts instead of rivets, you will get your patent. Big corporations like Apple are well aware of this and try to take advantage of it.

The other side of this problem is big companies railroading little guys and stealing patents. A big corporation saw a product a small company had developed and was demonstrating to UT Austin athletics. Within days of them seeing this product demonstrated, a patent was filed by the big corporation for an identical product.

There are no more ethics in business or government!