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Apple versus HP versus ?

Discussion in 'Android Lounge' started by Rgarner, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. Rgarner

    Rgarner Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    My friend is planning to get a computer soon. He says Apple is best because somebody he knows has one. He could probably get HP cheaper, but he's convinced. Is either of these the best choice?
     


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  2. mikedt

    mikedt 你好

    Think the most important thing here, between Apple or HP. Do you want MacOS or Windows for the OS it comes with?

    For my uses and because of where I am, it has to be MacOS, so I have Apple Macbooks.
     
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  3. codezer0

    codezer0 Android Expert

    For the love of god, if you want a good windows PC please don't get any from the big OEMS. Dell, HP and lenovo are all horrible and just gobsmacked with ewaste. Proprietary components, cases and even video cards just to ensure none of it is repairable or reusable. If you don't believe me, by all means, go on YouTube, look up "Gamers nexus" and "prebuilt" and there will be tons of videos of so many of them doing it wrong. Yes, this includes smaller brands; but those three and their aliases were among the worst offenders.

    Apple, on the other hand... If you need Mac OS, that's the only legal way to go. Yes, there is hackintosh, but it's obvious the m1 shift was done specifically to block that in future updates. There's also a lot to be said about how apple has been infamously fighting the right to repair or upgrade your own Mac or iPhone. About the only thing they do get consistently right, is that at least the out of the box experience is that the system works.
     
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  4. ocnbrze

    ocnbrze DON'T PANIC!!!!!!!!!

    it also depends on what he is needing the computer for. is this going to be a desktop or laptop computer? will he be doing any photoshop or video editing? or is this just going to be used to hop on the internet or watch movies or youtube videos and maybe emails?
     
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  5. Hadron

    Hadron Smoke me a kipper...
    VIP Member

    I don't believe that the Hackintosh is remotely a big enough concern for Apple to go to the effort and expense of changing their processor architecture, never mind designing their own chips. I can think of several far more plausible reasons for that (from their experience with their own processors in their iDevices, the scope it gives them for bringing iPad and Mac closer, the competitive advantage a less power hungry architecture can offer, to Intel's decidedly lacklustre record in recent years giving them a motivation to cut loose). This isn't something you do because a tiny, commercially irrelevant group of enthusiasts make an effort to port their OS to other hardware without permission - if that really bothered them that much there are far simpler and infinitely cheaper ways of making life harder for those people.

    But yes, what OS you want to run is key. And the question there should be "what do I want to do with the computer?", because some choices are better than others for different uses. Then, as long as your preference isn't MacOS, you can worry about which brand is best for your particular requirements (because if it is MacOS the choice has been made).
     
    #5 Hadron, Sep 30, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  6. Madd61

    Madd61 Well-Known Member

    I bought a Dell recently and very pleased with it. I know the criticisms and watched a lot of YT, but I got a new £430 pc for £300 in a department store sale (different box but new). It is expandable / configurable to a degree, and has better /newer port options than any comparable.

    Coming from a failing laptop with an i3 - 2350 to a desktop with an i3 - 10105, 8gb and 1 tb hard drive (yes!) the performance is excellent for me and I have no desire to change to an SSD, the ram or graphics.

    Horses for courses.
     
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  7. codezer0

    codezer0 Android Expert

    Apple has a history of doing LOTS of business decisions entirely out of spite.

    Heck, way back when they were about to have their first Macintosh with an AGP bus, ATI disclosed to investors details about their deal. At the annual keynote the week after, Jobs went out of his way to not disclose the graphics option(s) being provided about the then new systems. With that in mind, and their attitude against right to repair, it's entirely within the realm to believe they are doing an architecture shift entirely to spite Hackintosh efforts.
     
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  8. Hadron

    Hadron Smoke me a kipper...
    VIP Member

    I know Apple's history (though remember that Jobs' personal element is no longer present). But it's one thing to put software mods or hardware checks in to frustrate hackers, or turn lawyers loose on them them, it's a completely different scale to change the actual processor architecture. We're talking thousands of times more cost and effort, as well as a strategic risk to their computer business if it doesn't deliver real advantage (and if it does then that's sufficient justification in itself, and you don't need to assume that the real motivation was simple malice and any positive effects are a happy by-product). It is literally absurd to think that any business would do something like that just to impose their control freakery (which I do not deny is a feature of the company) on a handful of hobbyists.

    Yes, companies will take actions to frustrate hobbyists even if those people's activities have no impact on them (perhaps even generate a few sales). They way some Android manufacturers go out of their way to make rooting difficult comes to mind (though even then you can see commercial motivations behind some of it, e.g. carriers wanting it in order to prevent people disposing of the bloatware take money to install, even though I doubt the numbers doing so many any real difference). But the cost of that to the business is tiny, and the risk is negligible, so it's not comparable.

    It may be that some of those hobbyists have a grossly inflated sense of their own significance, or like to assuage their frustration by claiming that Apple have done this just to spite them. That doesn't make such a claim any more plausible, it just makes those people look silly.
     
    #8 Hadron, Sep 30, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  9. Rgarner

    Rgarner Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    Wow, thanks for all the answers, and I agree that it depends on intended use. He's a noob who is probably going to waste a lot of time with yucktube (my opinion) and maybe a few other things. What interests me is that I may be able to use it. Lord knows I am far from a computer genius but I at least like to think of myself as having a little sophistication (and wariness). My plans would include downloading minimal adb + fastboot, and possibly some USB drivers, in what I hope will not be a vain effort to revive my inexplicably bricked Moto G Stylus. By the way, I ordered a new one from Wadmart (because I had enough in gift cards to do that) on September 17th, and it hasn't arrived yet as of the 30th. They do admit to delay but that's about it. Meanwhile, back on the computer, I also plan to get some kind of Linux, most likely Ubuntu, and of course Calibre, to manage those ebooks. If I can also spring for a hard drive of at least 1 tb, maybe Western Digital, it'll be even better. There you have it, a tale of one computer for two people. Nothing could possibly go wrong...
     
  10. Rgarner

    Rgarner Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    Well, it's almost crunch time. The computer will probably be bought in about a week. We're no closer to a decision. The thing is he's such a hardhead it's probably going to be difficult to persuade him. (I'm not, of course.) Whatever he gets, it most likely won't be over $500. What would be the best deal, assuming no high end use such as movie making or cutting edge gaming?
     
  11. Rgarner

    Rgarner Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    I guess we're going together to look for one. Now the question is where. I'm thinking maybe Best Buy. He wants to go somewhere that has a number of different brands available, a sort of computer cafe. I really could use some advice here. By the way, he seems inclined to let me choose the computer because he doesn't know much about these things.
     
  12. codezer0

    codezer0 Android Expert

    Honestly, it's a really bad time to go shopping for stuff like this right now. Especially when even second-hand GPU's go for more than what their spending budget is quoted. Hell, Apple doesn't even have an option that cheap for something new.

    As it is, so much under a $2k USD spending limit is so compromised at this time, that it's almost not worth considering.

    tl;dr - at $500 USD, there's just nothing I can recommend. If that's all they have to spend, well... be prepared to spend at least twice that trying to make it suck less.
     
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  13. Rgarner

    Rgarner Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    Boy, I hope not. How long is it likely to be before the situation gets better? I know somebody who at least had a computer for sale. It's a Hewlett Packard, I think, barely used, for $250. I didn't get to check it out because the owner forgot the password. Maybe I should look into that and consider adding an external drive, probably Western Digital.
     
  14. codezer0

    codezer0 Android Expert

    Just on the graphics front, even stuff that was primarily for Windows xp era is jacked up. For example, was wanting a dual-GPU card for a windows xp build since stuff like SLI and Crossfire were better supported that that time period. Can't even look at a Radeon 7990 for less than $200 USD on ebay, and that's just for the GPU.

    On the same note, the RX Vega series was never price competitive with its nvidia contemporaries. And thanks to the latest (sustained) crypto boom, even a blower model vega 56 still commands over $500. I can reasonably guaarantee any account selling an RX Vega now has basically pumped and is dumping it for crypto mining to use something newer. The Radeon VII? That thing is just criminally overpriced, with over $1000 for any that are confirmed working, assuming they've not been mined on to hell and back. Hell, even broken and dead cards are selling for more than they ever deserved to.
     
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  15. Trom

    Trom Android Enthusiast

    He should consider purchasing components and building one himself, avoids propriotory hardware. Install a Linux distro for free.
     
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  16. Rgarner

    Rgarner Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    Ha ha, that's great. He can barely use a computer, much less assemble one. I'm not meaning to call him out on that. It's just not his area of expertise. You're probably right that it would be nice to have a custom rig, but with his budget, that's probably impossible. I guess we'll just see what happens...
     
  17. Trom

    Trom Android Enthusiast

    The motherboard / cpu combo can be as expensive or budget as you want. A hard drive is essentially the only other thing he'd need, since these days pretty much everything else is on the motherboard, unless he wants some super gaming rig, he can put together a perfectly decent rig in about two minutes for only a couple of hundred bucks.
     
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  18. Davdi

    Davdi Android Expert

    AS @Trom said, it's easy to build a desktop PC, I've been doing it for the past twelve years or so. For your first build, check (at least twice) that everything is compatible, look at the motherboard's documentation and make sure you know where everything goes. When you're ready to actually put the parts together, put the motherboard on some corrugated card (ideally two layers) and fit the CPU and cooler (not forgetting thermal paste IF there's none or no thermal pad already pre-applied), and the memory. I'll leave the rest to reading and watching YT videos on building a desktop. Oh, and forget Win 11, just go with Linux (Kubuntu or Mint Cinnamon are both very easy to get on with.
     
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  19. Rgarner

    Rgarner Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    Thanks, but that's not gonna happen. He's freaking at the thought of having to take 2 buses to reach Best Buy. He's no gamer, either. It looks as if I'll be the decider on this. How is Kubuntu different from Ubuntu? I hadn't heard of Mint Cinnamon.
     
  20. Trom

    Trom Android Enthusiast

    Mint is what I usually recommend to people ready to take the Linux plunge. Comes in three flavors, and the differences are in the desktop environment. Cinnamon is the most popular and the best looking, and is the most resource hungry. The "Mate" edition is a real good compromise if your computer isn't running the latest hardware. Then there's the "Xfce" version, for people who don't gaf about bells and whistles, or are installing on a twenty year old laptop. Mint is widely considered to be one of the best distro for new users, as anyone who uses windows or Mac can use mint without missing a beat.
     
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  21. Rgarner

    Rgarner Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    Ok, I'm thinking maybe desktop. Would that be a better deal than a laptop? I realize this is pretty general but I need to know what to do really soon. It would be for basic stuff, not making movies or music, and probably not much gaming. I still want to add that external hard drive.
     
  22. Rgarner

    Rgarner Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    The Acer Swift 3 looks pretty good as far as speed, weight, and battery life. The downers would be price (over $600), display dimness, and speakers on the bottom (?!) . That last part doesn't even begin to make sense. Thank goodness it's available with AMD, which evidently outperforms the untel version. I'm wondering if we could add the external hd later, because half a terabyte would probably do for now. Also, does it have a port for sd cards, and what about a mouse? Is it as difficult to delete bloatware from a computer as it is with a phone?
     
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