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Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Jordan, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. Jordan

    Jordan Member
    Thread Starter

    Working with kids and raising two I sometimes see efforts by one or another to sort of overwhelm or even hurt others. It's called "bullying" now. Well when I was in grade school it was just "fighting" or "starting trouble."

    Sometimes it seems to be competition taken too far. I'm a coach and when it gets to a certain (sometimes hard to detirmine) point I'll step in and explain limits. But other times it looks pretty good or just normal. Those times it is not targetting the opponent as anything lesser than the one being a bit agressive. I'm fine with that as long as it is not personal, and that is the "limit" I draw.

    I think most people can remember being "bullyed" as a child. The first time it happened to me it was about being "just a girl." Then it was my name (Jordan is an unusual name in the area I grew up, and was quickly faded to "Jerry" as I got to about the 4th grade, so I just let it be called that and some old friends still do call me that, it started out as a rouse but ended up a name so what? :D). But the trully hurtful actions have to be stopped and the "bully" has to be gently turned around. Hard to do in some cases as even parents will defend and enable it when it is brought up.

    Any experiences?

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  2. zoxxo

    zoxxo Android Enthusiast

    I used to get "picked on" (another term for bullying) a lot because I was the new kid. We were a Navy family and moved a lot. It seems like the new kid always does something different or weird, so they become the brunt of the jokes...
  3. Jordan

    Jordan Member
    Thread Starter

    Ya I remember the newer ones from another school arriving in about the 5th or so grade getting a lot of sneery stuff. Our school seemed to specialize in name distortion then as I mentioned. It seems pretty light now, but the idea of having a new name distorted from the real one did make us uneasy and sad. Some of us are from Jewish families, although Christian by conversion and faith, that entered into it as well.

    And then there were the few who were fat, or darker in complexion, or freckles or anything that could be noticed and vilified instead of appreciated. All light stuff when we hear about some of what is happening now and a bit of what I've seen now and then.

    I bring this up because I know it is common and I wonder sometimes how it affects people's lives when it is all done and they grow up. I wonder if the bullyers in adult life (on the job or where ever, even like here in a forum) are having "reruns" if you know what I mean.
  4. chanchan05

    chanchan05 The Doctor

    I made a college paper on bullying some 7 years back. Statistics then show that bullies are 25% more likely to end up in jail later in life than non bullies, and that their average earliest age for getting legal trouble is some years earlier than the normal.

    However this was the more physical kind of bullying, the schoolyard bully who takes your lunch at recess, or waits for you outside the school and takes your day's money from you.

    Psychological bullying such as name calling and whatnot, I have no idea.
  5. Jordan

    Jordan Member
    Thread Starter

    Wow yes the significant likelyhood of ending up as lawbreakers of the violent type has been proven. I do wonder about the non-physical "pick on" stuff. I remember my sister and I getting into those with each other but I don't think either one of us wanted to be that way in public like at school.
  6. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    Try playing a flute in the school band or wearing an ROTC uniform in HS. All I had to do to stop future attacks was slug a few ring leaders. That stops bullies, usually.

    These days, kids will flip out if someone says something rude or defriends them on Facebook.

    Kids fight. Always have and always will. I think we are raising too many weak kids. Parents try to protect their little ones against everything. If their little monster is stung by a bee, they sue the school for not being bee proof.

    We can no longer have winners and losers. Instead, we reward kids for just making an effort.
  7. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    It might depend on the times we live in. My bullying days came and went with few actual fights. just threats, big mouths, posturing and yapping. There were a few, but I felt was justified.

    For example, (and in my non-bullying days) I put my hands under a Seal Dry Mount Press and some arse puilled the handle. Burnt my hands like you cannot believe. Like a giant iron pressed against your hands. Large sections of skin sloughing off revealing red flesh. And it hurt a bit, too.

    When I recovered, I slugged the moron that hurt me in the head when I walked into class and later, I pushed him down a flight of stairs.

    I graduated HS in 1974 and I dealt with bullies. Not one of them went to jail. But that was then, when we were actually punished the little monsters for bad behavior.

    We respected the police, our parents and teachers. These days, bad kids can do many bad things and they either do not fear punishment or they skate. So their behavior never stops because they learn they are invnceable. Many grow up stupid and mean.

    Perhaps what drives a bully is his or her audience? They feed off their cohorts. They feel empowered so they bully.
  8. zoxxo

    zoxxo Android Enthusiast

    I'll be 52 this year, and I refuse to go to any of the high school reunions--too many traumatic memories of being pushed around, beaten up, and mentally abused. I prefer to try to forget and move on...
  9. BabyBlues

    BabyBlues Trouble Just Finds Me!

    Bullying was always in my life growing up. I was heavy growing up and have always had large thighs. So I grew up to being called Thunder Thighs and all sorts of names. It did teach me to learn to ignore a lot and also taught me to not be cruel to others that were in any way different.
    Now its harder on the kids though. My daughter gets teased for having an athletic build or because she isn't playing one sport or another. Kids are downright cruel to one another and I wonder when it got so much worse than when I was in school. (I'm 34 and my daughter is almost 11 - just for reference).
    So I commend any parent/teacher/coach or even random adult who tries to get any child to stop and think if they are hurting another out of sheer cruelty.
  10. Alsaces Daddy

    Alsaces Daddy Android Expert

    Blatant cruelty should be stopped immediately, but I believe a little rough housing or playful fighting is fine. Sometimes people/kids have to horse around and test their limits. See who is tougher.. That makes the weaker on ewant to be tougher. It did to me. I grew up a little guy. Real curly hair and they called me J.T. (justin timberlake) and that's fine by me. I embraced it and learned a few dances and it was alright. But the jocks felt the need to keep it going.. In 10th grade I had to finally stand up for myself at a party. It was rough. I don't like to fight because I always end up just as hurt as the person I'm hurting.. Whether it be from busted up knuckles or a bloody nose. It just irritates me.. But I broke his nose in 4 places and he ended up with 17 stitches because he wanted to swing at me..

    Lesson learned.. Stand up for yourself when you have to. Kids are too soft today and it's because parents are afraid to hurt everyone else's feelings because their parents were rough and tough and came from a much much harder time.. But they want this time for their generation to be so easy and no troubles.. Problem is.. Look at how they act.. They are wild.. No manners, no rules, no respect. Nothing. They flat out do not care. Oh and I'm 25.
  11. Unfortunately I think cyber bullying is with us for good and that most of us here are too old to have experienced it or to truly understand it.
  12. 9to5cynic

    9to5cynic Android Expert

    I was picked on. Middle school was the worse, in high school I got in with some new pals and we all stuck up for each other. I think being picked on and all that helps make you who you are. Not good, not bad, it just is. I mean, it sticks with you, but I think over all, it makes you a better person. I like to think that I'm far less likely to be mean to someone because of all the crap in school. I don't know what compels people to behave in this manor, but it's unfortunate.

    As far as cyber bullying, I'm not sure. I was never cyber bullied so I can't say one way or the other. But I don't think it's the same as when you ride the school bus and have people throw stuff at you. You can choose to not go on facebook, for many, the school bus is the only way to school.

    And I like to think all the more interesting people in life were picked on.
  13. chanchan05

    chanchan05 The Doctor

    By definitions in my paper, your actions arent bullying, thats revenge.
  14. sntaylor

    sntaylor Android Expert

    See I was bullied on and off, and was also slagged off (made a fool of) because I played rugby of all things, this could have been seen as bullying too.

    I remember one break time in high school, where a particular bully put me in a head lock for most of the 15 minute break, with a few minutes to go I had started driving my legs and pushing him around the playground, however the section we were in had 1.5m diameter concrete cylinders supporting the building above, I drove the bully into one of them and he smacked his head off of it, he swung for me in rage, but never actually bullied me again!

    These days though there is little control over kids, when my grandpa was a teacher he could give the belt! Still had bullies, but less general bad behaviour!
  15. pbf98

    pbf98 Android Expert

    I had many experiences in grade school just because I wasn't "cool" and my parents didn't have excessive amounts of money. I had "best friends" that would even turn against me when the crowd was around.. there were plenty of names that they had for me, i only had one physical bully.

    I am one that stands against bullying, when I am out and I see it happen, I confront them on it. 9 times out of ten they get embarrassed and try making you look like a bad person for doing the right thing. Though it may not seem like it will do much it will throw them off and they will think about it for quite a while.

    The bullying that exists today needs to be stopped and go back to being playful teasing that everyone accepts, but truth is I don't think it will ever go away.
  16. breadnatty08

    breadnatty08 pain rustique

    Not that I'm of the age to really be bullied but dumping my Facebook account was one of the best things I've done.
  17. Shinji01

    Shinji01 Android Enthusiast

    I was not picked on but felt like the odd one out a lot as the only Japanese at school.
    Asian racist jokes and comments used to really hurt me.
    But in the end, bullying is not just about kids. You see it in the workplace etc.
    You just have to either stick up for yourself or learn to shrug them off.

    i do agree that facebook accounts are more hurtful than it is fun for me, still.
  18. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    Bullying will never go away. My grandma talked about bullies and I had my experiences from grade school through HS, usually as an observer.

    What has changed is the level of violence. Wear the wrong color and you are shot. They use extreme violence to take your tennis shoes. Teachers are running scared because many fear for their life.
  19. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User

    i hate bullies..

    in Jr high.. i was a short and skinny asian.. so got messed with. I dont fight unless it is last resort. some took that as being wimpy, but a few did give me a good reason and they did not mess with me any more.

    in high school, i got big and tall... and everyone left me alone.

    I do agree.. that the bullies.. taught me to be more tolerant to others.. shaped my personality in a small ways.
  20. Bren S.

    Bren S. Android Expert

    Agreed. Parents,schools etc are afraid of punishing kids and of course the whole "it's bad if a child fears it's parents or authority figures" garbage hasn't helped. A little bit of fear is not necessarily a bad thing. IMO
  21. cmybliss

    cmybliss Android Enthusiast

    This. As a public school employee and a parent, I see it all the time. I see varying standards for behavior, with well behaved children often suffering mor severe punishment than kids who are an ongoing problem. District policies on suspension/expulsion have been watered down to the point of being a complete joke. The reason for this? Parents of the offending kids suing the district because their darling little monster was disciplined.

    There is this one girl at my daughter's school who is just such a kid. I kid you not, last year (4th grade) she punched 5 kids in one day and wasn't even sent home! She has also bitten kids with her only consequence being sent to the principals office. She pulls this s&#+ all the time because she knows she can get away with it. The school is afraid to do anything for fear her parents will sue.

    Then there are the "good" kids who loose an entire day's worth of recess for screaming (in joy mind you) on the playground! WTF! If you can't yell on the playground where can you yell?! Yeah, my daughter was one of them. As a rule, I tell her that she needs to follow the rules or deal with the consequences if she breaks them, but I couldn't let that one slide. Because I work for the district, I was nominated to go in and make sure it didn't happen again. 'Cause that's a stupid rule.

    I guess my point is, parents are a big part of the problem. They can't,v or won't see that there is a problem with their child. They blame bad behavior on everyone but their kids or themselves and will cause trouble if the school doesn't see it their way.
  22. zuben el genub

    zuben el genub Extreme Android User

    No, schools don't listen. I reported a teacher for suspected behavior. The school pooh-poohed it. 5 years later he went to prison as a sex offender. Other girls besides my daughter gave me the same complaint. I put my daughter in a different school.

    We had a bully next door - I'd just plain annoyed by the things he was allowed to do and his victims were told not to tattle. After one neighborhood incident, I simply put the school on notice. I had proof of his behavior, and one more complaint from my daughter, I was calling the police and the school could just lump it.

    The neighborhood incidents involved more than just my daughter.
  23. Jordan

    Jordan Member
    Thread Starter

    The punishments for real bullying are usually seen as more reason for anger in the kid I have noticed. So the behavior shifts to more secretive later on but it is still there. I keep hoping for more anger management focus in schools even as a normal part of the curriculum instead of just as "therapy" when an incident happens.

    "Fun" bullying, the kind that has the cooperation of the victim, is a fine line because the victim has probably just found a way to deal with it as a sort of denial and that is not healthy I think. I am not sure though because kids and playing is so varied so different.
  24. pastafarian

    pastafarian Pâtes avec votre foie

    I think most people have experienced bullying, on one side or the other, even both. It's become a hot button topic of late, mainly because of media exposure. A lot of people complain that it's just kids being kids and that we all went through it and did fine. That's true BUT the communication age that we now live in can make the effects much worse for the victim now.

    My own recent bullying experience <long!!>? I have 2 sons (6 and 8 at the time). We >had< friends who live down the block from us and have a daughter and a son (8 and 6 at the time). Our kids played together, went to each others party's and rode the same bus to school. We even talked about vacationing together.
    We went to a Halloween party at their house after trick or treating together. Their younger son got out of hand in the basement and for lack off a better word, attacked my older son repeatedly. Eventually, my son tired of taking it and pushed the 6 year old away. My wife and I witnessed it, but in the "kids being kids" theme, tried not to get too involved until it became too violent. We saw something in their son that we realized we were subconsciously avoiding maybe because we were family friends, he's a bit sociopathic. Our son was very upset and wanted nothing to do with the party at that point, but the damage was done. The daughter who is daddy's little princess that does no wrong turned on my son with a vengeance, telling anyone who would listen that she "hated" him.
    After the Halloween party the daughter took every opportunity to belittle my son verbally, try to turn the kids in his class against him and worse? She would physically assault him whenever she thought no one of authority was looking. We witnessed this again and again, still with the belief that Kids will be kids and that they need to work it out. My son took all this hard. He's not a tough kid and I taught him to be respectful of women and that hitting is not an option. That conflict left him essentially defenseless to her. The younger son often joined in with the attacks and my younger son who had nothing to do with the original issue and thought of the younger son as a friend was drawn in too.
    My wife and I made two huge mistakes. The first was to let it go on for so long (kids will be kids). The second was for me to go and try to talk it out with the father. I went with strategy to not be accusing and to hopefully discuss how we could fix this together. What I got was a defensive attack that included building a "case" that it was all my kids fault and that they were thieves. I'm not delusional that my kids are saints, but these stories were absolute bold faced lies. Though I repeatedly tried to disengage with the father amicably, even shaking hands and starting to walk away twice, he kept verbally jabbing me trying to incite something. It almost came to blows and our family friendship was irrevocably destroyed. The apple doesn't all far from the tree.
    We went to the school and met with the principal. The action was swift. The grade was lectured about bullying. An assistant principle rode the bus and witnessed some of the goings on. Both theirs and our children were spoken to seperately by the principal and their children eventually admitted to the bullying, the lies and even "outed" their parents as instructing them to report the lies. The kids will never be in the same class as long as their in this school system and their kids have a mark on their file that will follow them through high school. If we had just gone to the school early on, most of this could have been avoided and all the kids would have been better served!
  25. breadnatty08

    breadnatty08 pain rustique

    Wow, Pasta, quite the story. I'm glad it seemed to have some sort of positive ending (though it sucks the school system couldn't do more). For me, I'm never one to be confrontational (for better or worse) and often have to defuse confrontations and angry people at work. Really don't know why people want to be this upset over the dumbest things when there's far more important things in life.
    Imagine it took a lot of guts to confront the other parent, know I would have a tough time doing it. It'll be a while before (and if) we have kids, but that situation will probably show up in some shape or form.

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