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camera help (attention bob :P)

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by gallandof, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. gallandof

    gallandof Android Expert
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    me and the GF are looking to pic up a new hobby and photography won out. but we are both completely ignorant about it, the extent of my knowledge starts and ends with my DX's camera. we are looking into DSLR probably a nikon or canon (heard the best about them for starter level) but were not sure if we should get the most basic one or get a more mid range one. Also what are the specs that we should look for and pay attention to? most of the time its going to be nature photography, but we would also be using it for car photo's as well as more personal photography as well.

    so any tips/advice would be more than welcome.
     

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  2. chimphappyhour

    chimphappyhour Android Enthusiast
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    You'll definitely get more choices if you go the Canon/Nikon route over the other companies. The used gear market is huge with those two and pretty much any 3rd party manufacturer caters to them.

    The first thing to do is to go to some place where you can pick up and handle both company's offerings. Canon and Nikon take different approaches from each other and ultimately between the two, it'll just be a matter of which approach and feel you prefer.

    As for whether to go for an entry level versus mid or higher dslr, a lot will depend on just how much digging through menus you want to do. The lower the level of dslr, the more digging you'll be doing. Also, the components will differ. Higher in the range, the better the components should be. (Although, you do have to consider the date a body was released in relation to feature creep. A newer pro-sumer body can end up having a lot of the features from a pro series that is nearing the end of its life.) This can really show in the focusing department. The higher bodies will focus faster due to a better AF module. Not sure about Canon but I know that in Nikon's current line-up from the D7000 up, there is a focus motor in the body to drive older AF lenses that lack their own motor. This means you can use a lot more lenses, including old used ones. The bodies below the D7000 series requires you use lenses with built-in motors if you want AF.

    The specs to look into... well, chances are that if you're looking at those two companies, you will pretty much be deciding on features you want more than anything else. The megapixel war is slowing down, thankfully. (They're all pretty close to each other right now. It takes a quadrupling in MP for most people to see a real difference. I don't think anyone has that kind of jump in the cards anytime soon. That would be the realm of digital medium format and that is new BMW kind of prices.) The one they have been going on lately is ISO. Pretty much anything new on the market right now will be about a billion times better than what we shot with film. It's insane really when you look at the difference.

    So really, just go handle the offerings and decide which company's ergonomics you prefer. Then decide what features you can't live without and which you can and go from there.
     
  3. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    Film or digital? I'll assume digital. Too bad because I blame digital cameras and cheap printers for the demise of film. Not to mention, printing paper, qualified labs, and printing materials.

    I do not know as much about the digital world as I want to know, I am afraid. Except film still beats digital photography, in many cases.

    I did, however, discover a cool tool for creating 600-DPI book covers destined for printing. Still, Bob is often left dazed and confused when it comes to digital image systems.

    I am taken aback at the cost of high end digital, I must say. How much do you want to spend?

    Bob
     
  4. zuben el genub

    zuben el genub Android Expert
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    Check out some photography forums. Here's one that has reviews plus a forum for every camera:
    Forums: Digital Photography Review

    Just be advised - the Canon/Nikon feud is as bad if not worse than the Android/Apple.
     
  5. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    yeah Digital. DSLR= Digital Single reflez Lens.

    I agree with what you say about Film.

    As film is analogue, like Vinyl to CD - although the difference between the constant nature of analogue compared to digital's incremental values is supposed to be "invisible" or "inaudible" to humans, I always think it is noticable

    I got a Nikon D5000 for my first camera. I like it a lot. Just wish I had more chance to use it.
     
  6. gallandof

    gallandof Android Expert
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    so we decided to just go in to our local best buy and buy the one we liked the feel of best and ended up walking out with a nikon d5000. now we have the fun time ahead of us of learning how to actually use the thing!
     
  7. Dark Jedi

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    I have that camera and its nice but if like i was at WDW I actually used my Thunderbolt phone. For two reasons one I left my D-5000 at home lol. 2 I realized at a park like that it would have been a nuance. It takes a great picture if you know the settings which i do not. Have fun with it.
     
  8. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    Sad to be old. I recall the good old days when Eastman (and many others) sold a vast variety of film and paper.

    I guess we do not need it today. No more processing needed and everyone seems to have a color printer. At least I can say I am the finest fine arts film printer on the Android Forums.

    At least I remember a time when photography was much different.

    I dislike digital, but at some point, I'll jump. I just hate a multi-thousand dollar investment rendered worthless every few years.
     
  9. chimphappyhour

    chimphappyhour Android Enthusiast
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    Bob, depends, what system are you using? It might not be all rendered useless.
     
  10. chimphappyhour

    chimphappyhour Android Enthusiast
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    Glass, if kept properly, can last for quite some time. The only issue is that sometimes the old stuff may start to show its limits on some of the newer bodies. Glass was and still can be an investment. It is harder to make obsolete.

    Modern digital bodies on the other hand are quite easy to make obsolete. Like I eluded to in my statement above, features from one generation will creep down into the lower rungs of the ladder over time. The pace this is happening at goes faster and faster. Add to this the complexity and nature of modern electronics and their assembly. All of a sudden, cameras (and newer lenses) aren't really easy or cheap to fix anymore. Now, if you break a camera body or lens, you have to consider if it is cheaper to repair it or just replace it with a like item. And guess what? Most of the time, it is cheaper and easier to just outright replace the item. What happens to the old item? Well not much. It really isn't worth anything to anyone else. Which means, it is discarded.

    Not like the old film bodies where everything was easy to replace or maybe just needed a CLA. Truth be told though, the people who can do the CLA work on old film bodies are becoming fewer and fewer. It actually costs more to send my YaschicaMAT EM in for that service than it would be to buy another one used. So it looks like film bodies are going the same way.
     
  11. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    In a few years, the camera I buy today will be replaced by a cheaper, better camera that costs less money. And I likely take a bath on my investment.
     
  12. chimphappyhour

    chimphappyhour Android Enthusiast
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    Unfortunately, you can't think about digital bodies as a buy/sell kind of investment. Those who do become disillusioned pretty quickly. You have to look at it more as a cost to use investment, will you get enough use out of it and its features to justify the cost to you.
     
  13. nlsme

    nlsme Android Expert
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    Sorry, but a high end dslr does not fit the definition of disposable in any way, shape or form. Love the personal attack though, considering my grasp on what the word "disposable" means in REALITY is a little better than yours.
     
  14. Frisco

    Frisco =Luceat Lux Vestra=
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    I've edited a couple of posts in this thread for rudeness (bordering on personal attacks). Let's keep on the topic of the camera issues, please.
     
  15. nlsme

    nlsme Android Expert
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    This holds true for anything you buy.
     
  16. chimphappyhour

    chimphappyhour Android Enthusiast
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    That's because we live in a disposable society. Sorry to break it to you but it is the truth. Obviously Bob Maxey had a good handle on that concept. Glad you agree with his assessment and mine.
     
  17. nlsme

    nlsme Android Expert
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    If that was the case, the word "disposable" can define everything, and it has always been this way. Sorry, I disagree, and so does the dictionary.
     
  18. Slug

    Slug Check six!
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    Congratulations! It's a good choice.... not too over-burdened with features you'll never use, yet with plenty of headroom for you to grow into as the hobby becomes an obsession. :)
     
  19. Bob Maxey

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    Not true. I could name many products that are as useful and high quality to day as they were when originally manufactured.They hold their value through the decades; in many cases, value increases.
     
  20. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    The word "disposable" generally applies (in this case) to cheap products that can't be repaired easily, if they can be repaired at all. So when they break, they are tossed.

    My old radios can be repaired. They use tubes and all components are easily replaced. A new radio is cheaper, but complicated and it is not repairable at a price that makes sense.
     
  21. chimphappyhour

    chimphappyhour Android Enthusiast
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    ^Exactly, and that is how a lot of products these days are built. Businesses don't do as well if you're sitting on the same thing for a decade. They would much rather have it be much more attractive for you to just buy a new one than service the old one.
     
  22. lordofthereef

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    At the rate of tech advancement, people generally don't WANT to sit on said item. Complexity also plays a huge role. We are comparing an old radio to current tech. Current radios are far more complex (and are more than just a radio nowadays).
     
  23. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    Consider automobiles. Sure, when my dad bought his beloved 1960 Olds Super 88, Oldsmobile would love to sell him a new car in 1961. But his lovely old Olds still rolls across the road, despite his children's best efforts to destroy it.

    I know someone who can trade one of his bikes straight across for two brand new Harley-Davidsons. So the old stuff often increases in value and is easily repaired where as the new stuff often becomes valueless as time marches on.

    Case in point, my first laptop was costly. In the multi-thousand dollar range more than a decade ago. I can't give it away because it is useless. It will not function in today's world and it is impossible to upgrade.

    Today, you really cannot easily repair a body part on a new car, but you can "solder" the body of the Olds. Car guys will know what this means. Or perhaps not, the term Lead Sled is often something I need to explain to the youngsters.

    And the car has great value, where as a 2011 Toyota will likely be long gone or difficult to repair in 51 years. If car lovers still exist in 51 years, my Olds will still have value and parts will likely be available. No so for the Toyota.

    In days of old, manufacturers always wanted sales. But they also made things of lasting value, that could be repaired long into the future. I remember when Eastman Kodak would keep upgrading film and keeping the old stock available many decades after the cameras that used the film were long gone and hardly anyone used black and white versions.

    Repairing the things we love can be costly so the items are tossed because a better, cooler whatever with twice the speed, double the memory, and half the cost arrives next year. Or on Tuesday, at 11:00 AM.
     
  24. chimphappyhour

    chimphappyhour Android Enthusiast
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    Ha ha! Oh, I know what a lead sled is. :p

    Used to attend the Good Guys here but it collided with Greaserama on the same weekend. I know some of the better cars from GG will show up at Greaserama so I just attend that and shoot them with the rat rods.

    Tried embedding an image but I guess that doesn't play so well when hosted in another site. Bummer.
     
  25. nlsme

    nlsme Android Expert
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    Yes, lets consider automobiles. In the old days, a car would be hard pressed to reach 100,000 miles. Today, that is the warranty.... In any sense, ANY car eventually dies, and thus needs to be disposed of. There is nothing that makes them less disposable than cars of today. There will always be replacement parts for that Corrolla. Why? It is the best selling car EVER. That is why people don't collect them. That olds, sold less than the Corrolla has in one day. That is why there are collectors for it. There will not be parts for that Olds forever. There will be for that Corrolla.
     

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