Can law enforcement get into a pin locked phone without the code

[Frekigeri]

My friend and I watched a TV drama and the police got into a device ( 2018 onwards ) the device was pin protected and they did not have the code but still managed to access the phone itself?
Is this possible in real life or is it more TV dramatics ?

 

[dontpanicbobby]

In the USA, no.

 

[svim]

Most TV shows are all about the drama, unfortunately there's a lot of people who don't bother to distinguish reality from entertainment. Can a cop magically bypass a lock screen? No, but there are countless incidents of police bullying people into giving in.
Here's a good read for anyone living in the U.S.A.
https://www.eff.org/issues/know-your-rights
So yeah, it's a complicated mix of laws -- depending on which state you live in and if you're at a border crossing or just at home will have a lot to do with what law enforcement can or cannot compel you to do.
Plus, we're currently in a transition period where one person has seized control over all three branches (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial) so our 4th and 5th Amendment rights are in jeopardy.

 

[dontpanicbobby]

Where do you live? @Frekigeri.

 

[mikedt]

My friend and I watched a TV drama and the police got into a device ( 2018 onwards ) the device was pin protected and they did not have the code but still managed to access the phone itself?
Is this possible in real life or is it more TV dramatics ?

Apparently it can be done with PIN locked iPhones, upto iOS 12.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/police-iphone-hacking-grayshift-graykey-uk

 

[puppykickr]

There is nothing that can protect your devices from law enforecement, especially if they have a warrant.

There are always backdoors into any device, and if the police are unable then they will find someone who can and will.

 

[dontpanicbobby]

So Police hire criminals @puppykickr?

 

[puppykickr]

So Police hire criminals @puppykickr?

Not unless the criminal is looking for a plea bargain.
They will just 'encourage' the device manufacturers, or 'ethical' hackers.

 

[svim]

One aspect I wasn't taking into consideration is the situation the OP was asking about. If it's something like you get pulled over by a cop driving down the street and If the cop takes your phone away from you (he/she has to have just cause or a warrant), it's not a matter where they can crack your phone in a few minutes while sitting in their car. If you were to get taken into custody however, than yeah they can crack into your phone eventually. But it's not like they do this for everyone. It's going to take them time and resources so cracking into someone's phone is only done when they suspect there's relevant information on the phone. Of course that's such a loosely defined issue that it's probably done more often than it actually needs to be but it's still not as simple as just plugging a phone into a magic box and pushing a button.

 

[puppykickr]

One aspect I wasn't taking into consideration is the situation the OP was asking about. If it's something like you get pulled over by a cop driving down the street and If the cop takes your phone away from you (he/she has to have just cause or a warrant), it's not a matter where they can crack your phone in a few minutes while sitting in their car. If you were to get taken into custody however, than yeah they can crack into your phone eventually. But it's not like they do this for everyone. It's going to take them time and resources so cracking into someone's phone is only done when they suspect there's relevant information on the phone. Of course that's such a loosely defined issue that it's probably done more often than it actually needs to be but it's still not as simple as just plugging a phone into a magic box and pushing a button.

Yes.
And that 'time and resources' thing is everything.

You would be surprised what those are not spent on sometimes.

WARNING! TRUE STORY WITH POSSIBLY SENSITIVE CONTENT AHEAD

A friend had a neighbor with nefarious contacts.
This neighbor had small children.

My friend awakens to cos pounding on his door, telling him and his wife that the immediate neighborhood is being evacuated.

He and his wife join his other neighbors out in the road.

As it turns out, someone had placed multiple IEDs all around his neighbor's yard, one of which was about 12 foot from the wall that my friend's headboard was against.

The neighbor was awakened by the sound of breaking glass, as whoever had boobytrapped his yard had then thrown a Molitov cocktail made from a glass jar full of flammable liquid through the kitchen window.

Luckily, the fire went out when the jar went through the window, so no fire erupted in the house.

But, believe it or not, the cops had absolutely no interest in getting any fingerprints off of the broken jar pieces, or even collecting them.

There were obvious prints on the glass.

When asked about it, the reply from the cops was "You have been watching too many police shows on TV."

You would think that as this attack had put my friend and his wife, along with other neighbors, the person targeted, and his small children all at risk that they might have spent some time and resources to lift a few prints from a firebomb used in the attack.

You would have thought wrong, I guess.

And yes, the IEDs around the yard were real, the bombsquad was brought in and the devices were detonated under containment out in the street.

So yeah, no prints available there, either.

Oh well, I guess that's case closed, then.

 

[Frekigeri]

Not unless the criminal is looking for a plea bargain.
They will just 'encourage' the device manufacturers, or 'ethical' hackers.

So they ask who makes the device to open it and they do it for them ?
And ethical hackers can access a phone the same way ? Even if it hasn't been rooted or usb debug activated ?

 

[Frekigeri]

Where do you live? @Frekigeri.

UK

 

[dontpanicbobby]

Cool.

 

[Frekigeri]

There is nothing that can protect your devices from law enforecement, especially if they have a warrant.
There are always backdoors into any device, and if the police are unable then they will find someone who can and will.

Is this easily done ?

 

[Frekigeri]

Cool.

Are you in the US ? Is it different there can UK do this?

 

[dontpanicbobby]

US yes.

 

[Hadron]

In the UK it depends on what grounds they stop you. If it's a terrorism case then under the terrorism act it's illegal to refuse to unlock the phone for them (which means if you do refuse they can hold and charge you for that while they give the phone to GCHQ or whoever to crack it).

 

[Frekigeri]

US yes.

So can uk do this ? If you think US can't ? I guess you must be police from your tag name

 

[Frekigeri]

In the UK it depends on what grounds they stop you. If it's a terrorism case then under the terrorism act it's illegal to refuse to unlock the phone for them (which means if you do refuse they can hold and charge you for that while they give the phone to GCHQ or whoever to crack it).

Right so if they arrest you and take your phone then they will give it to GCHQ and they will easily break into your phone .....
I guess they can pull anything off it ... even apps you have deleted ect ?

 

[Hadron]

Right so if they arrest you and take your phone then they will give it to GCHQ and they will easily break into your phone .....
I guess they can pull anything off it ... even apps you have deleted ect ?

Well let's be realistic: they aren't going to involve GCHQ for a suspected shoplifter or car thief. But if they think you may be involved in anything serious enough then they can do a lot of stuff. But do be realistic: if you might be on their radar for that type of thing you should assume that all of your electronic communications are being monitoried anyway. We've moved on a long way from the original question now. Similarly recovering deleted data from a phone isn't easy, so again it's a matter of how important you are to them.

That said, it's also about to get easier for them. Google are taking advantage of Brexit to move your data to the USA, a country which offers almost no privacy protection for anyone who isn't a US citizen (and much weaker protection than the EU for its citizens). Certainly this move is about Google's interests, but it will also make it easier for security services to get hold of your data.

 

[MrJavi]

Heres an interesting article about U.S cellphone laws and citizens rights.

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/cell-phone-privacy-and-warrant-requirements.html

 

[dontpanicbobby]

Well I'm not that sure about UK law except we in the US inherited most of it. In the US LEOs need a warrant to employ a hacker to crack your phone. Without the warrant the evidence is inadmissable in court.

 

[Hadron]

I strongly suspect that you didn't inherit our laws concerning access to data on phones

 

[dontpanicbobby]

Phones weren't a thing back then @Hadron. We did inherit the Postal System though and only had to tweak it a little bit to make it uniquely American.

 

[Hadron]

We did inherit the Postal System though and only had to tweak it a little bit to make it uniquely American.

I hope that's not "uniquely American" in the way your healthcare system is...