Help Can the HTC EVO 4G's 65k color limit possibly be upgraded to 16m colors through root

[WordIsBorn]

65k shouldn't really bother anyone on a screen that small... on small screens, resolution is what matters... on bigger screens resolutions is standard 1080p (hopefully for you) and what matters then is color and technology but on a screen so small, i would MUCH rather have clear images than vibrant blurry ones

I can somewhat agree with you on the small screen, and wanting better resolution vs better color, but let me tell you with out a doubt color and depth (contrast ratio) is way more important on a big screen than resolution.

I currently have a 42" Pioneer Kuro Plasma that is only 720P. I saw it on closeout and thought I would resell on e-bay, but it blew away my Sony Bravia XBR4 40" that was 1080P in picture quality. So I kept the Pioneer, and sold the Sony. Now I want a 60"+ TV, but I cant find a TV that can come even close to my Pioneer Kuro in picture quality without spending $7,000 +.

 

[Moonbloodsflow]

I got turned onto this article about colors and stuff after searching around the net. I figure some of you might want to read on it.
Having More Colors Is A Good Thing, Isn't It?

In the article it linked a program to load up 24bit color pictures and see how they'd look in various other bit schemes. The original pictures are just taken from Window 7's sample pictures. All images are 24bit originally.

Conclusion, if this is what the picture look like blown up on my 24bit screen I think it's safe to say that on the Evo's 4.3 inch screen things will look fine. Yes there is some banding on darker colors but it's hardly going to be noticeable at all on a screen that size. I'd speculate that it will have some good dithering making it next to impossible to see any banding.

The need for more colors is subjective but to me, more is not always better, especially after reading that article. That's marketing for you. Would I have liked a better screen to satisfy my ego? Yes, but probably would never have been able to tell the difference in day to day uses. Let's not forget almost every review I have read has commented on the screens quality.

 

[reallynotnick]

i quite prefer the HD2 in THOSE photos but IDK how true that is, i would think 16m would have better potential to be more accurate

Those images in the post two above you beg to differ.

The side by side comparisons show that the EVO has MUCH better contrast than the iPhone, which has nothing to do with number of colors. It does however look to be such an improvement that I would easily pick the HD2 screen over the iPhone.

As the poster above Aridon said he was able to see the color banding I was talking about due to it being a 16bit screen and I don't doubt him one bit. The pictures we saw are two small to be able to notice color banding, but they do show off the much darker blacks of the HD2.

I doubt many people will ever really notice the 16bit color and when they do it will just be in something odd like the Sun or some other gradient. Looking at the pictures I would easily still pick the HD2 screen as I hate how grey the blacks are on my iPhone. Though I wouldn't doubt that the new 4th gen iPhone will be able to beat the EVO's, minus the fact it is 3.5in vs 4.3in, but we'll have to see.

I think a lot of people are really going to enjoy the EVO screen and I hope you guys all learned a little about different color depths, I know I sure expanded my knowledge while researching it. It's fun stuff to know how colors are made up of different bits.
Color depth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[aliveon2legs]

Those images in the post two above you beg to differ.

I can see a little bit of banding in the images of the Zippo lighter. But reallynotnick is right, the contrast ratio on the EVO is so much better that it's more than a worthwhile tradeoff.

 

[egrus]

First, where is everyone seeing the spec that the Evo4G only supports 65K colors?
If that's the case -- major fail...but I don't think it is.
It's not by any means a TFT limitation or a limitation with _any_ display technology.

Windows Mobile (all versions) have had this limitation for the longest time (it's right in the OS -- software limitation), and while it wasn't too noticable when QVGA screens were the norm, after the HTC Diamond (VGA) it started getting annoying. I personally have a Samsung Omnia 2 (WVGA Res) -- beautiful AMOLED screen -- wasted by only supporting 65K color. You can bet your ass it's gonna be VERY noticable on a 4+" screen.

The major problem is with gradients -- it's called stepping.
Normally on a display that supports millions of colors you see beautiful fades, but just like the pictures people have posted here -- on 65K color displays you will see steps where the color is just trying to look good but it doesn't - there are huge gaps or "steps" when fading between colors.

Can anyone find a specific link though that says the HTC evo 4g only has 65k color? I just don't believe it.

EDIT:

I guess it's true, it's right in HTC's own press release.
Wow...major fail...I still can't believe it though, maybe someone just got the spec wrong...it just doesn't make sense that they would make a beast of a phone like this and limit it to 65k colors.

BTW save all the quotes -- I don't care what you say about it not mattering blah blah -- it DOES matter, as I said I have a phone that is limited to 65k colors and it blows compared to other devices that aren't.

 

[fiskadoro]

Maybe I'm being naive here, but isn't it as much to do with the actual quality of the display itself, like with LCD monitors? I had a Dell LCD at work once which was way higher spec and used more modern technology so it had higher/wider viewing angles etc., but the color balance was nasty and it had a yukky yellow tinge to it, despite calibration. Yet here at home, I have a dirt-cheap LCD with old-school TFT technology but the clarity and color is just perfect, even if it 'fades' if you view from the side. I figure that for every day usage, if the screen has great clarity and sharpness, that's going to be the key thing in the end. It's definitely going to be interesting to see what people think once they have their EVOs... admittedly I was surprised to see the 65K color limit, but I've not read any reviews that have said anything but the screen on the EVO being magnificent, even if the phone potentially has other issues.

 

[egrus]

Does anyone know if the 65k color limitation is also applied to the HDMI output video signal? That would be even more fail imho.

IIRC most LCDs (even cheap ones) can handle 256K color.
256K is a world apart from 65K color -- some people say that 16M and 256K are so similar that it's hard to tell them apart...that's why I'm confused as to why HTC wouldn't just up the color depth to 256K?

Viewing angles are different than color depth, and yes it is handled differently by different mfgs...but that doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about. 65K color displays will have stepping no matter what angle it's viewed from, even with dithering.

Also, regarding the iPhone, IIRC they designed it to have contrast like that so it could be seen well in sunlight.

 

[aliveon2legs]

Does anyone know if the 65k color limitation is also applied to the HDMI output video signal? That would be even more fail imho.

I absolutely cannot imagine that to be the case. Even the very first versions of HDMI supported a 24 bit color range. The phone itself would have to downscale the images before sending them out. It would take more time and effort to do that than to just leave it as is.

 

[prettycocky]

Maybe the 65k is just a typo, somebody from sprint just copied and pasted some of the specs from the htc hd2, they do have almost identical hardware specs

 

[Rigmaster]

First, where is everyone seeing the spec that the Evo4G only supports 65K colors?

Phonescoop pulls the info from FCC filing records. The FCC filing lists 65k TFT.

 

[egrus]

Phonescoop pulls the info from FCC filing records. The FCC filing lists 65k TFT.

Motorola shadow FTW then

 

[1Paladin]

If it was 12 bit I would worry. 16 bit looks pretty much the same... I think we will be just fine... ii

 

[ddanny82]

and I ride a unicorn to work every day.

rofl

I was also worried about the 65k color display. But after reading moonbloodsflow article about color im convinced we'll be ok.

 

[DougFunny]

Wait.. I thought the EVO had an OLED screen?

 

[ekt8750]

Tft

 

[NSXLA]

Informative thread! EXCEPT for the OP post haha - I suppose he/she was under the impression if you can overclock the CPU with root access why not "overclock" the screen haha.

 

[tx_brandon]

Is output through HDMI limited to 65k also?

 

[sikclown]

Is output through HDMI limited to 65k also?

No it will output whatever the source material is. Just because it only displays 65k it doesn't mean the source is only 65k if that makes sense.

 

[prettycocky]

Informative thread! EXCEPT for the OP post haha - I suppose he/she was under the impression if you can overclock the CPU with root access why not "overclock" the screen haha.

No I actually read somewhere in this same site that ppl were able 2 upgrade their sprint hero from 65k to 256k with a custom rom and I'm trying 2 find that same thread so I can show this everyone what I'm talking about

 

[stroths]

No I actually read somewhere in this same site that ppl were able 2 upgrade their sprint hero from 65k to 256k with a custom rom and I'm trying 2 find that same thread so I can show this leprechan dingdong licker what I'm talking about

Here's something similar, but not the Hero - LINK

It basically states that the Xperia X10 came with Android 1.6 which only supported 65k while the hardware supported much more. They speculated that with a newer 2.x build of Android that the full potential of the hardware could be utilized.

EDIT: Here is a thread showing the Hero screen color depth upgraded from 65k to 262k with the Android 2.x update - LINK

The 2.1 version of Android supports color depths above 65k, so software isn't a limitation on the Evo. That leads me to believe that 65k is the hardware limit, but I could be wrong.

 

[reemas]

. his questions and concerns were legitimate.

on a different note, someone linked these photos earlier, but i'll pick the ones that are worth looking at. (i don't know if this is true, but they said this is the same screen as the EVO).

 

[NeoteriX]

no need to be a douche. his questions and concerns were legitimate.

on a different note, someone linked these photos earlier, but i'll pick the ones that are worth looking at. (i don't know if this is true, but they said this is the same screen as the EVO).

Interesting. So this is a comparison of the 24-bit iPhone color reproduction versus the 16-bit HD2? Where is the source for this?

 

[reemas]

see post #47 or this:
Apple iPhone 3GS vs HTC HD2 High Definition Photo Gallery

also the contrast and color issues that are depicted are somewhat irrelevant as you need to take TWO SEPARATE photos to compare these things. mainly, the brightness isn't the same and you need to expose them differently.

edit: as a result of taking one picture, one phone will always look "brigher, washed out, contrasty, etc." but one thing that will not change is the fact that the EVO (that i plan to get) will not be able to show a full blend of colors.

for most things, menu screens, twitter, text, email, etc etc and even most games you won't notice this. but when you do notice this...... it's not fun. considering it's a next gen phone and prev gen phones aren't just equal, but superior, that's a bummer.

p.p.s. (RUMOR) but still, apple's iphone 4G might have a 960x640 display, although prob wont be 4 inches. i take a lot of video and pics with my iphone 3gs (even though i'm a photographer). and the iphone 3gs pic quality and video quality seriously impress me still. anyway, in 4 days you all will have one, and i'll hopefully get to check one out. also, i'm not an apple or android fan. i'm a fan of BOTH. i like competition and innovation and progress. i only mention the iphone cause i have one and am planning on getting an EVO, but this issue really bugs me because look at a LOT of pictures on my iphone. and they look g*d d*mn good.

p.p.p.s. anyone know if there are demo EVO units at any stores in L.A.? i'm close to hollywood.

 

[reemas]

one more thing, anyone here with an EVO AND iPhone?

 

[sikclown]

No I actually read somewhere in this same site that ppl were able 2 upgrade their sprint hero from 65k to 256k with a custom rom and I'm trying 2 find that same thread so I can show this leprechan dingdong licker what I'm talking about

Well it makes sense actually. HTC's site has the Hro listed as having a 262k screen and I have read that Android 1.5 and 1.6 did not support more 65k colors. With the Upgrade to 2.1 we should actually be getting 262k now.
I am starting to wonder if the EVO screen is actually only 65k because I cannot find anything official that states. Those who say it is the same as the HD2 I would say... windows Mobile only supports 65k (not 100% positive but that is all over forums) so it makes sense they would build that with 65k.


Update: this is a link to Phandroid of the official specs From Sprint listing it as 65k
http://phandroid.com/2010/03/23/htc-evo-4g-specs-published-by-sprint/