Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by wake69, Jun 6, 2011.
is un-revoked, basically rooting for dummies?
I was never a fan of those books, "[insert subject matter here] For Dummies," or "Idiot's guide to [whatever]." I don't like book titles that insult me. No one can know everything, and we're not dummies because we don't know something. So I'm not one to label unrevoked as "for dummies."
unrevoked is an easy way to root your phone. So was the method I used to root my Evo: Simpleroot. Simpleroot was basically a one-click root program that used toastcfh's manual method, which swapped out the release HBOOT with the Engineering HBOOT among other things.
I prefer having an unlocked bootloader via the ENG HBOOT because this version was designed to be fully functional, whereas the release HBOOT is somewhat nerfed. For the purpose of unlocking the bootloader, all you need to do is get S-ON to S-OFF, which unrevoked does just fine. But I also like using fastboot mode, which the ENG HBOOT has but the release HBOOT does not.
But even the fastboot mode is not essential because everything I do via fastboot USB mode can also be done via a PC36IMG.zip file on a release HBOOT, which seems to be the popular way to do things these days (likely due to the popularity of unrevoked).
So... call me an old-timer. I like the traditional ENG HBOOT. That's why I said it's just my preference. unrevoked works just fine.
Ah yeah, I wasn't into Android back then like I am now lol I saw the threads of people posting Evo 3D ROMs already and I just assumed they were spam or something.
sooo... with un-revoked you root the phone and you unlock the bootloader, but you can't use fastboot mode.
Which is all a matter of preference, but you still have the ability to unlock tethering, and the ability to rid the device of bloatware.
This is a question for either you or her, what exactly does fastboot do? I've been rooting via unrEVOked with every root on this Evo and I thought it was unlocking everything...I guess that's not so. What exactly does fastboot do?
When you boot into the bootloader (assuming you don't have the ENG HBOOT), do you see a FASTBOOT option in the list? Just curious.
If your phone is plugged in via USB and you go into this FASTBOOT mode, the phone will enter FASTBOOT USB mode. At this point, you can issue fastboot commands to your phone via your desktop. If you've ever used adb, it's a similar setup.
When I first installed drivers on my PC to recognize my phone, I had to install it 3 times: once for fastboot usb support, once for adb usb support, and once for usb support during normal phone usage.
In a nutshell, you can use fastboot to MANUALLY flash to various partitions via .IMG files). It's a great way to repair your phone when your recovery image is damaged. Again, there are workarounds using PC36IMG.zip file, which is actually just using the AUTOMATIC part of HBOOT's features.
Here's an example of how I flash an alternate recovery. From the command line on my Windows box:
fastboot.exe flash recovery RA-recovery.img
I've never verified whether fastboot usb mode is present or functional via an unrevoked root; it's what I've read. I'm assuming that on the release HBOOT, the HBOOT USB function is removed, but the automatic detection of PC36IMG is still present.
No wonder I got confused over the whole S-OFF when I went back to look at that info. I also went with full nand access and the ENG HBOOT last June. Learn something new every day - thanks novox77!!
Yeah - for my 3vo, make mine an ENG HBOOT, please. It's what I know.
I agree, I've always thought they should be labeled "For complete beginners". But I've been guilty of buying one or two as practical joke gifts for people.
If you remember when I just joined and suggested the Gingerbreak option may work for the E3D, and you guys said it was S-ON so it wouldn't work. I had no idea what you guys were talking about. Moto doesn't seem to have S-ON/OFF anywhere visible in their bootloader. It's just "30.04 bootloader" and a few other things, like "Batt Good (or bad if it's under 50%)" "Ready to Program" or "Awaiting USB cable".
Interesting. Yeah I have no experience with Moto hardware/firmware. I assume there's an equivalent of NAND protection which in the HTC world is known as S-ON. Fastboot could also be an HTC-specific thing. Likewise, when Moto users mention "SBF," I really don't know what that refers to, or if there's something analogous on the HTC side.
I'm opposite - rather than take exception, I like being reminded that I'm a dummy sometimes (because it applies in my case - did you see the one from Saturday where I spaced how to do powers of 2??). Anyway, different strokes.
Unless/until the magic change happens, Moto bootloaders are locked and unlockable due to encryption. The hardware contains an efuse that is designed to brick hardware upon intrusion, but it's my clear understanding that they never implemented that level of protection.
SBF is a moto backup file image - it's essentially the same as a rom.img in the HTC world.
Fastboot is part of the Android repertoire - example, you unlock a Nexus bootloader by issuing the fastboot oem unlock command as part of your rooting sequence (strictly from memory, Nexus rooters, freely correct me on that).
I actually do see a FASTBOOT option when I enter into HBOOT. I rooted via unrEVOked back in Decemeber 2010. I tried doing the whole manual root but it just wasn't working for me with all the stuff I had to do in Command Prompt.
Hey EarlyMon, while we're on the topic of NAND access, what exactly does that entail? I'm going to be purchasing the E3D and I intend on rooting it as soon as possible before I start adding apps. Once I get TitaniumBackup I'll be more open to modding my phone. Anyway, if I want to say, try a custom ROM/kernel, will having ENG HBOOT/NAND access help more or do the same as the S-OFF rooting method? I want to fully open this thing up the first time, and I have no idea what does what. Any help from you or novox would be greatly appreciated.
Either way will be fine. Last time around (Evo 4G), the ENG HBOOT replacement was the only full root available for a few months. I actually did the half root with unrevoked before realizing there was a difference between half root and full root. 2-3 months later, unrevoked offered a full root, but I was already done.
I suspect if I had gotten my Evo around Christmas 2010, I probably would have rooted with unrevoked. Simpleroot/toast's method (ENG HBOOT) were losing popularity post Froyo.
In the end, you get all the same functionality.
You probably already answered this for me before, but is there already a rooting method made for the Evo 3D? I know they already have ROMs, but say like thelonewizard was saying, will I be able to go pick up an Evo 3D on launch, take it home and root it that very day?
If I'm correct, which I'm probably not, then as long as the bootloader of the EVO 3D is either locked solely with S-ON (which you can unlock with a simple S-OFF command) or completely unlocked, then I think you're technically able to root it that day, yes. But then again, I'm still very new to this.
So using the unrEVOked (S-ON to S-OFF method) versus using SimpleRoot (Switching release HBOOT for ENG HBOOT) will do the same thing? Tasty.
What about NAND access? I've read about that, and I'm not sure what that means. Is that where all the system info is? Like, where the kernel and core info lie?
There is no root exploit for Evo 3D yet. But read on.
If the bootloader of the Evo 3D is unlocked (by all definitions) out of the box, then you don't need a root exploit. You can just flash a custom recovery and a ROM that contains superuser (which is any custom ROM). I doubt flashing the recovery for the Evo 4G would work, so we'd need to wait for a port to Evo 3D from the recoveries' respective authors. As far as the ROM goes, since the ROM has already been leaked, it will be trivial to add superuser to it and make it flashable. So... in summary, if bootloader is unlocked, we don't need a root exploit. We just need images to flash.
Simpleroot was just some windows GUI front end that performed the release/ENG HBOOT swap + add superuser (toast's root method for Evo 4G). Someone might choose to write a similar program for the HBOOT swap method for Evo 3D, but it would have nothing to do with the old Simpleroot (it be a totally different root exploit), and they could call it something completely different. My impression is that whoever wrote Simpleroot is not supporting it anymore.
Our internal memory is flash memory, and the type of flash technology is called NAND. For an Android phone, the internal NAND flash memory is divided into several partitions. You ask where the kernel lives in your phone? This thread explains where everything lives:
When someone says that the bootloader is "locked," it could mean many things. See this thread for all the possible meanings of a locked bootloader:
But the bottom line is that a locked bootloader is preventing the user from WRITING to certain partitions. You'll hear this behavior called "NAND locked," "NAND protection," "S-ON," "locked bootloader," et. al. But they all refer to the same thing: the bootloader is preventing modification to key areas of your internal memory. When the bootloader is unlocked, the terms change: "S-OFF," "NAND unlocked," etc.
When the bootloader is unlocked, the root user will have the ability to remount these partitions READ/WRITE, or in other words, you can modify them. Want a custom recovery? You first need to lift the READ ONLY restriction placed on the /recovery partition by the bootloader. Want a custom kernel? that same restriction needs to be removed for the /boot partition. Remove crapware? /system needs to be free.
unrevoked unlocks the bootloader by flipping a switch in the release bootloader. It's unclear if they can do this for any HTC phone. The other way to unlock the bootloader is to just flash a bootloader firmware (HBOOT) that is perma-unlocked: the ENG HBOOT. The end result is the same: you have the ability to modify all the partitions.
First I would like to say: I love you. You write things in such clear and informative ways I understand it. Thank you.
Secondly, once the EVO 3D is released, the timeline is sort of like the following:
2a. (If unlocked) wait until devs created HBOOT image with SU.
2b. (If locked) wait until devs unlock?
3. Have stock rooted phone.
2a. If unlocked, wait until devs create a rom with SU and a recovery so you can create nandroid backups.
2b. If locked, expect a fast update from HTC to fix that, like they did for the Sensation.
Sounds like you have the Slashdot profit model down perfectly, btw.
How long should it take for the devs to create this ROM and recovery?
I've actually never been to Slashdot. I picked that up little model from the trolls of FunnyJunk, which they got from the catacombs of /b/, which I will assume obtained it from Slashdot.
Can't really set genius breakthrus and tricks on a schedule.
Generally tho - no moss grows under those devs' feet at all.
A day will seem too long and a few weeks will seem like mere seconds as soon as you've rooted the new phone.
Best I can tell you.
Understandable. What's that saying? "You can't rush perfection"? I'll use this as my credo as I wait (im)patiently for the root/recovery for the phone I'm waiting for.
Thanks for helping me out so much.
Quite surprised an exploit hasn't been found yet. Phone hits our hands 6 days...