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Root [CDMA] Ota warning EVEN WITH S-OFF(read post #24)

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by wake69, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. wake69

    wake69 Android Expert
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    For those of you who are rooted and or planning on rooting or planning on getting device and rooting, if you take the ota there is a great chance that your hboot version will never be supported by revolutionary. As some have asked questions about weather or not they will support hboot version 1.5 the answer is no. Here is the transcript of my conversation with IEF who is a major part of their organization:
    in the revolutionary irc channel 30 secs ago
    [09:21] <wake69> will there be an update for the evo 3d 1.5 cdma
    bootloader?
    [09:21] <@IEF> no
    [09:21] <@IEF> there won't
    [09:21] <wake69> thank you
    [09:22] <wake69> i dont need it just a question
    [09:22] <@IEF> we might figure out a way to downgrade to 1.40 at
    some point, which we will release then, but don't count on it

    so, if you want the ota, flash the rooted rom and firmware dont unroot, if you want to root without the htc method dont take OTAs once you get hboot version 1.5 you are stuck with the HTC rooting method
     

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  2. scrosler

    scrosler Android Enthusiast
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    I have a question for you... Did you ask them why they are not working with hboot 1.5? You do realize that HTC fully unlocked this so you can flash custom ROMS / Kernels / etc. It works all the same as the Revolutionary method. If Revolutionary did it again it would be nothing more than a pure waste of there time. Its sorta like re-inventing the wheel.

    The HTC method is just as good as the Revolutionary method.

    Thats just my two sense. Nothing more. Dont take offense because its not mean to be offensive. Just my point of view.
     
  3. wake69

    wake69 Android Expert
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    Here is my reply to your response, some people dont want their device marked by htc through their unlock method which unlocks bootloader security but does not turn s-off. while you have control of your device, you cant flash the eng bootloader and are stuck with their method. Revolutionary imho is a better option with the choice of returning to stock at any time for any repairs or warranty claims.
    The reason I posted this is because a lot of people who are new to rooting dont understand fully the difference between s-on unlocked and s-off locked.

    My information is full and correct. while there are other threads that cover revolutionary unlock and htc unlock, no one has confirmed what i have posted this morning until i spoke with IEF.

    This is not to tell people how to root or what method to use, it simply heeds as a warning to those who may want to root and have not taken any otas.

    If you would like to read more about s-on unlock and s-off unlock see here:
    What Is S-OFF & How To Gain It On HTC Android Phones With unrevoked forever
    http://androidforums.com/evo-3d-all-things-root/389787-beginners-guide-rooting-android-devices.html
    http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-all-things-root/194918-rooting-dummies.html



    Rooting methods:
    http://androidforums.com/evo-3d-all...vo-3d-rooting-essentials-official-thread.html
     
  4. scrosler

    scrosler Android Enthusiast
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    Yes indeed your OP is full and correct. I just read it wrong the first time and went back and edited my response while you had originally posted a response to my response. My bad!
     
  5. hudsonmw

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    Thanks for the info! I had a bad feeling about letting HTC know you are rooting your phone, which made me hesitate, but now after reading this I definitely am going to wait for an alternate rooting method. Kinda ******ed that the official root won't let you go back stock, but the other method does. :)
     
  6. novox77

    novox77 Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
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    Given that the life of this phone is still young, I envision that the majority of owners are going to end up with HBOOT 1.5. I believe new phones are already shipping with it, so for most people buying the phone now or in the future, the HTC method will be the only way to unlock.

    There are a couple of differences between the Revolutionary and HTC methods:

    1) the bootloader firmware itself (HBOOT) is replaceable via the Revolutionary method, whereas with the HTC method, you can only get what HTC decides to push in a future OTA.

    2) you can return your phone to a fully unrooted state with Revolutionary. With the HTC method, HBOOT will always show that you unlocked it, even if you choose to relock. This may have warranty implications.

    So... there are some advantages going with the homebrew unlock, but who knows if they are significant enough for devs to try to crack newer HBOOTs. I would think the priority would go to phones that have no known root exploits, official or unofficial.
     
  7. scrosler

    scrosler Android Enthusiast
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    I agree. The homebrew method is great if there is no alternative. But if the mfg offers me a way to do it safely then I am going to take the MFG way.

    But either way, the end result will be a device that will allow custom ROMS and that is what HTC promised us. Im happy with there solution. I dont fully understand peoples concern with it. Applying a hacked s-off exploit voids your warranty as well so whats the diff?
     
  8. DonB

    DonB ♡ Truth, Justice and the American Way !! ♡ ™
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    Because the hacked way you can always restore back to original stock state and they will not know it was rooted or unlocked and therefore would not void your warranty would be my guess, unless you are saying once unlocked they will always know


     
  9. scrosler

    scrosler Android Enthusiast
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    No, I agree with you there... But... Do you understand what is actually voided when you make this change? I think we are all under the assumption that everything is null and void. That's not the case.

    From HTCDev.com

    What they are saying is if you try this and hose it (dont see how but I guess anyting is possible) then they may deny a claim for repair. What does that mean to us? Not much because we go through sprint 99.9% of the time. Sprint states as long as you have TEP or ESRP you can hose the phone and it will be covered: Support - Article

    See the stub on ESRP.

    Once again, this is just my spin on what I am reading. Hopefully none of us will ever need to exercise any of these options. And if you are rooting and hacking you really should have tep on your phone. Just sayin... lol I am happy to pay $7.00 a month to know that I can hose my phone and sprint will take care of me.
     
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  10. DonB

    DonB ♡ Truth, Justice and the American Way !! ♡ ™
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    You got that right



     
  11. scrosler

    scrosler Android Enthusiast
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    Im just trying to broaden peoples opinions some. I am not saying I am 100% right or anyone is wrong. I think HTC pulled this off perfectly! I have no complaints about the method (granted I didint do it) and tons of users on 2.1 that had no issues at all with the method.

    I am very grateful to HTC for doing this. Not many manufactures will support our Dev community like this.
     
  12. falconey

    falconey Android Enthusiast
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    I hear you and I agree to a certain extent, but I also have a mistrust for corporations. So until this mfg unlock has gone through some cycles and the community can give feedback on potential warranty hassles going forward I'd much rather be able to return my phone to completely stock if need be.
     
  13. LBPHeretic

    LBPHeretic Android Expert
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    Okay, sorry to ask, but I have been knee deep in Hurricane Irene preparations and work for the last week. Which OTA is this about? Is it the OTA that gave us Android 2.3.4 or is it the one that came after that? I want to make sure I do not install the OTA that will prevent me from rooting later on via UnrEVOked.

    EDIT: Okay. I have the answer. It is the OTA that came after the Android 2.3.4 OTA.
     
  14. DonB

    DonB ♡ Truth, Justice and the American Way !! ♡ ™
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    This one right here >>>> New maintenance update EVO 3d 08-26-11



     
  15. AndroidSPCS

    AndroidSPCS Android Expert
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    I wouldn't call paying $7 (soon to be $8) per month and then paying another $100 in warranty deductible to be "sprint taking care of you". You're paying up the nose for the privilege.

    Not to mention HTC's unlock method of the bootloader is not a full unlock (ie no S-off).

    I myself was a bit worried about the limitations of HTC's unlock, and have held off on any HTC updates. I'm glad I waited. I will be unlocking my phone via revolutionary.
     
  16. novox77

    novox77 Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
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    Hmm. When I cracked the camera lens cover on my Evo 4G, they saw that I had the insurance, and they fixed the camera free of charge. No deductible. So.... not sure under what conditions would the deductible apply, but it didn't for me. And the process for fixing the cracked lens required the replacement of the entire backing, which can't be cheap.
     
  17. scrosler

    scrosler Android Enthusiast
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    If you have reviewed Sprints new policy you would understand that most everything can be taken care of in the store without paying the deductible as long as you have the monthly fee... You may want to research that on Sprints site here for more info: Support - Article

    You would only need to pay the $100 deductible if you physically destroy the phone or loose it.

    Hope that clarifies for you.

    -Scott


    EDIT: But yeah you are right about the HTC Method not being S-OFF. That is some serisous B/S.
     
  18. scrosler

    scrosler Android Enthusiast
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    No you are correct. See above this. I outlined the article... Previous poster may not have realized Sprint changed the entire policy back in Nov / Dec time frame of last year. Its a common mistake that people dont know about the new policy. They still have that $100 mind set.
     
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  19. AndroidSPCS

    AndroidSPCS Android Expert
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    That's true, but that's not equivalent to bringing in a damaged rooted phone and asking for Sprint to fix it.

    Sprint support will look at it, see that it's rooted, and refuse to service it even if you are paying for insurance.

    So under the scenario mentioned above, the poster mentions he/she feels great about being able to "mess" with the phone's software after rooting / putting new ROMs on it. The best strategy in this scenario is to tell Asurion that the phone is "lost" or damaged beyond repair, which would require a full phone replacement, thus costing $100 deductible.

    It would not be the simple camera lens repair you mention.

    Yes I'm aware of the new policy. It would not apply if you "hose" the phone and needed Sprint to look at it to fix it. You would probably end up having to get a replacement phone, because 1) it's rooted and Sprint won't fix rooted phones, even under insurance, 2) because you bricked it beyond repair and you will need a new replacement phone. So under the scenario you mentioned, the $100 deductible will most likely have to paid for the privilege of "hosing" your phone.
     
  20. novox77

    novox77 Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
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    Well there's also the interesting development that as of April 2011, Sprint now services rooted phones. Really makes you wonder to what extent they would "service" the phone before playing the insurance card.
     
  21. evolution3d

    evolution3d Well-Known Member
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    That's incorrect. I am a Sprint Technician. We will repair/replace rooted phones without deductible as long as it is not water damaged, smashed beyond repair, or stolen.
     
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  22. novox77

    novox77 Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
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    Not only is this great for the consumer, it makes perfect sense. A bricked phone can be 100% recovered at the manufacturer. It can be resold as a refurbished unit. Kudos to Sprint.

    A phone that's been run over by a car is a complete loss and can't be resold in any form.
     
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  23. scrosler

    scrosler Android Enthusiast
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    Sir, you are incorrect. I speak from experience on this one...

    EDIT: Oh and you really should not encourage people to commit insurance fraud. Thats a crime! (I think) But if not a crime its at least a moral faux pas. But I am not hear to preach morals so take it for what its worth....

    EDIT Again: I cannot confrim its a crime but you do have to sign a sworn affidavit. I dont know how far that will go in a court of law.... But you can review the document here: http://www.phoneclaim.com/doc_list/doc_view/882?tmpl=component&format=raw

    Either way you look at it lying with the intent to defraud is a bad idea. And as a SR Member / Guide I thought you may have better judgment than to tell people to lie....

    Edit One last time (sorry guys): Insurance fraud is a crime and is noted on the document that I linked to. The spcific text is as follows:

    Indeed!

    Thats what I told him :D

    Shame on me... I had to do it once already! Sprint didint even question it. They said... Cant fix it... We'll swap it right now with a brand new one. I was so happy / relieved.

    I do pay for all Sprint tep/esrp/abc/123 (I dont know what all the acronymns are or mean, lol) Sprint really stepped up the game when they made these changes. I was thinking about going back to VZW or Possibly AT&T but after this experiences... I'm not leaving sprint for ANYTHING!

    Bravo to you and your company!

    And thank you for confirming what I said. People post so much "stuff" on the internet... 99% of it is not true and a "newb" like me never gets the time of day! Look at my post count. I must be a newb! lol

    I am now official off my soapbox, lol.
     
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  24. wake69

    wake69 Android Expert
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    thanks to scrosler and a few others we have conformation on what this ota does when you take it via the ruu.

    You may keep s-off
    you will get upgraded to hboot 1.5
    your hboot will read locked at the top
    to get root you must root via htc

    this info is for upgrading via the ruu and your results may vary.
    since the ruu is the ota updated packed unchanged into a zip file you should expect the same if you upgrade via ota.

    so what i am saying is be wary, you may maintain s-off but you will lock your bootloader. everyone may experience this differently but this has happened a few times so far.

    this is a friendly warning so take it as what it is.
     
  25. AndroidSPCS

    AndroidSPCS Android Expert
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    I absolutely agree with you it could be viewedd as insurance fraud, which we do not condone here. This is why I do not pay for insurance myself, because I would never use insurance in this manner if I were to brick the phone.

    Please do not post as if I am encouraging fraud. If you look at my post history I have always been against insurance, especially if one were to try to deceive Asurian. I do not appreciate you putting words in my mouth as if I support this action. I am stating the obvious that if the carrier does not support rooted devices, then the ONLY way to get support for a rooteded device is to claim another type of loss (again not encouraging anyone to do this!!).

    On the other hand, we have had Sprint customers report that Sprint technical support will refuse to look at phones if the phones are "rooted". I have seen reports from users here as well as Sprintusers.com. So even though you as a Sprint technician in your unofficial capacity may say that you support rooted phones, what a customer may experience in reality may not be the case.

    Back to the topic at hand - thanks for the info on the OTA. It is truly a case of buyer beware - only update if you fully know what you're getting.
     
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