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Climate change ?

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by OutofDate1980, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    jeff.. i do wish i am wrong...
    i rather be wrong on this...

    but i aint a scientist ... cant and will not argue with all the scientist that do believe and have evidence to prove it.
    most of the science community believes it...

    but some NON-Science people choose to believe the small group of greedy corporations ..
    who says everything is OK.

    what can you do?
    something about taking a horse to water... but cant make it drink!
     

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  2. mrex

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    the proof ipcc evangelists have been waiting... it is happening here now!!

    IMG_1953.JPG
     
  3. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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  4. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    clean the swamp... my ass!!!
     
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  5. Gmash

    Gmash Extreme Android User
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    If we could throw Trump and his cabinet/advisors into a literal swamp, the world would be a better place.
     
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  6. Davdi

    Davdi Android Expert
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    That the climate is changing is not in dispute. What may be discussed/disputed is the degree to which Homo Sapiens Sapiens (Us in other words) is responsible, and what we can do to mitigate the effects.
     
  7. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    so....

    global warming is real...
    but the major cause is NOT ... selfish humans? but maybe we are a little bit part of the cause.

    so.. what would be the other causes? that might be the real major cause?
     
  8. michaelkenward

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    There is another question worth discussing. How do we adapt to climate change?

    That one applies whether you are a nutjob denier or a true believer.

    Adaptation means finding ways to respond to the likely effects of climate change.

    For example, there is a high probability of severe weather events, with abnormal rainfall. That means more frequent flooding. Even before that started happening, planners in the UK had a delightful habit of allowing people to build housing estates on floodplains. This mindless policy continues to this day. Sensible adaptation would put a stop to that madness, or tell them to build houses that will float when the water level rises.
     
  9. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    ^^^ my guess .. why the keep building on flood plans..

    Population growth... which adds to all the bad environmental destruction in many ways.
    all these people need some place to live.. and land is being used up... good land is getting more and more expensive.
    overflowing to flood plains.. because it is cheaper than the NON-flood plans.
     
  10. jefboyardee

    jefboyardee Extreme Android User
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    CHELSEA FREAKOUT
    : ‘Global warming’ causes diabetes!
    March 24, 2017

    Chelsea Clinton is worried that alleged global warming will cause 100,000 more diabetes cases in America each year, so she’s taking to Twitter to sound the alarm.

    “Horrifying research shows correlation between global warming & rise in diabetes cases,” the aspiring politician posted Wednesday, along with a link to a Los Angeles Times story detailing the hysteria.
     
  11. Davdi

    Davdi Android Expert
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    Correlation does not imply causation. Obesity is by far the most likely cause of (Type 2) diabetes. Eating less/better will mitigate, or event reverse obesity relqated type 2 diabetes.
     
  12. psionandy

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    Its almost as if the person who wrote the headline didn't read the story that he linked to.... Still thats what you get if you only read headlines/ and celebrity twitter handles for your news.

    The BMJ article did seem to have a valid hypothesis... but I don't think the folks at the 'American Mirror' could even tell you what it was...
     
  13. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    ok.. let me make the link....

    climate change... causes global warming..
    global warming.. causes higher temps outside...
    higher temps.. cause people to do less outdoors activities..
    less outdoors activities... causes rise in depression
    depression .. cause more eating and laying around
    more eating and laying around ... causes more fat to form on general population
    more fat on general population .. causes more obesity
    obesity .. causes more cases of diabetes.


    just a conjecturing.. :p
     
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  14. Member243850

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    Yes I agree we need to be careful I do agree with you 100% but remember there is a lot of issues / deceit with global warming due to gubbermints increasing taxes just to enrich themselves and start making energy companies suffer and become less competitive.

    Now I am not saying we must just destroy the environment and do as we please because we will destroy ourselves if we do but just remember a lot of global warming is actually made up and there seems to be a lot of lies that have been thrown around all over the place.

    I am not saying all of it is a lie but there doesn't seem to be the entire truth being told here...

    This (below) is not some nutty conspiracy theory - this is the truth!

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/13/study-earth-was-warmer-in-roman-medieval-times/

    There were no cars and pollution during ancient Roman times.....

    They just want to make energy industry companies suffer with having to pay more money in taxes and thus everyone suffers.

    The earth has gone through many natural heating and cooling phases - there have been multiple ice ages for example.

    So please note I am not saying we must just do as we please and we must for sure look after the world as it is the only one we have got!

    If there is a problem people must tell the truth and be honest about it and not something else to increase taxes to make up stories when the earth could just be going through another natural warming and cooling period.

    The earth has gone through many natural warming and cooling periods for millions of years nothing is new here :)

    But yes we definitely need to look at something but factually and not based on gubbermints disturbing tendencies to increase taxes and lie about everything.

    But I totally agree we need to be careful and not wasteful / destructive but not be lied to by greedy / corrupt gubbermints.
     
  15. Hadron

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    Speaking as a physicist I'll just warn you that corporate vested interests and political pressure groups (e.g. extreme "free market" types who see environmental regulation as a threat to their philosophy as well as the profits of those who fund them) are putting a lot of resources into spreading disinformation and confusion. Governments are not perfect, but they are far from the biggest problem here.

    Comparison with the holocene maximum, whether deliberate misrepresentation or lack of understanding on the part of journalists, is one of those examples. By normal climate cycles we are towards the end of one of the interglacial periods and the climate should be cooling - and indeed up to the start of the industrial period that is what was happening. But now that trend has been reversed by a sudden rise, much faster than any natural process ever recorded. This graph illustrates it nicely:

    [​IMG]

    If you'd like it with a bit more historical context (and a lot more scrolling) look here: https://xkcd.com/1732/.

    Believe me, this is not something governments have invented so they can raise taxes: it has been damned hard to convince most of them to take it seriously, harder yet to get any action (due to a mixture of the message not being a comfortable one for people who seek election and massive, well-funded lobbying against action being taken). Nor is it something scientists have invented as a way of getting more grant funding (someone had a black sense of humour when they decided to spread that lie). This is a reality that some very rich vested interests do not want people to act upon, and spreading doubt about it is their primary tool.
     
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  16. Zigman66

    Zigman66 Android Enthusiast
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    @Stinky Stinky , while I typically enjoy your side of many topics you expound upon I would say that you definitely are not looking in the right direction on this one. As Hadron explained, it is typically not in the well funded government entities best interest to cost their benefactors (usually large corporations) any more money than necessary. A government figure today can deny global warming all they want because by the time the proof hits the fan they will be long gone and face no retribution for their actions or inactions. This shortsightedness leaves out the effects it will have in their actual constituents not to mention their own progeny. This type of mentality runs deep in many people. I, for one, have been a contractor for most of my life. My work practices when I was younger were less than well thought out. Many years later I am now paying the price for ignoring the warnings of those before me. And I am no where near the only person who has conducted themselves in such a manner as to worry about consequences later in order to quickly and cheaply get something accomplished. Don't believe we can affect our environment in a way significant enough to cause global warming? Then try the math on this one: Park your car in an average 1.5 car garage. Close the door for 10 minutes while leaving it run. Have the ambulance driver now start calculating for you the cubic amount of air you polluted in 10 minutes, nearly killing yourself. Multiply that by the average amount of daily driving in vehicles all over the world. For the sake of this discussion let's say that is 60 minutes which would be a hugely conservative amount. Then stop to ponder that amount of pollution dumped into our atmosphere in ONE HOUR. Now adjust a bit for truck drivers whose rigs operate for 10 to 12 ours per day AND don't get shut down in cooler climates so they run constantly. That takes care of our individual average daily contributions. Now think about each individual factory, power plant, and such and think of not only the pollution they put in the air but the ground and water they pollute through waste products from their operations.
    Here's another quick thought to ponder: Generally speaking, there were no pretty colors to sunsets before the industrial period, with the exception of large natural occurrences, usually volcanic in nature.
    We are, in fact, very quickly destroying the very thing that gives us life. And by the time humanity gets it's collective head out of it's ass it will likely be too late. And the hope that maybe we can find another planet to live on after we wreck this one? The rate of destruction is far outpacing the rate of technology that could get us there.
    Global warming is no hoax. Millions of scientists are not gathered around chuckling at the humongous hoax they are trying to pull. The evidence is there in our daily lives but most choose to ignore it or worse, they are so used to it they don't see it at all. To think that mother nature in all the power she has can save us from ourselves is not reasonable nor feasible. We continue to find ways to push her past her limits.

    Ok, climbing back down from my soapbox
     
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  17. Member243850

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    Guys ... I dig you all a heck of a lot and I see you as great friends of mine :)

    But seriously ... you can't take the side of the gubbermints want to tax increases - it burdens every single one of us... everyone suffers as a result of it.

    How can you explain that the world was hotter during ancient Roman times than what it is today?

    This alone brings up serious concern and question marks about what is really going on.

    It is a very simple question... are we really blame or is it mother natural and the earth's natural heating and cooling periods that we mistake as humanity's fault.

    These people are scary - they will lie and do extremely scary things to get their own way!

    Just take a look at this article with carbon fibre ring dating of trees... there is something rotten in the state of Denmark...

    https://hotair.com/archives/2013/12/13/study-proves-it-was-warmer-in-roman-times-than-today/

    Coming from the energy industry we get screwed over by these increase in taxes and heavy regulations and makes every single project far more challenging - do you know how much the Flare Compliance Project cost us back in 2014 do you have any idea how many millions of dollars it cost just to do that one project on it's own?

    Do you have any idea the amount of MILLIONS of dollars that are set on fire just to please what could be a gigantic lie?

    Please note I am not saying just destroy and do as we please - what I am saying is that there needs to be a serious look into the matter from an honest an unbiased point of view.

    If you must know the refinery made a LOSS of millions of dollars on that project due to pressure from the world... insane isn't it for something that could be a gigantic lie?
     
  18. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    in conversation about global warm...

    in the 1000 years... we will either fix ourselves... and our tendency to inflict self harm...

    or we will cause major damage to reduce our ability to survive and grow.
    which reduce our population to a manageable size..
    and mother nature will be fine in the LONG run....

    similar to the TUMP era... our gov has been going amuck for decades.
    which led to this administration. which I hope has opened the eyes the general american pupulace. so that it will cause a huge course correction.
    or it will kill off USA dominance of the free world.. which will lead to a new leader and hopefully a better one.
     
  19. Hadron

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    Firstly it's questionable that the world is still cooler than it was at the peak of the Holocene optimum. But that's not really important, it's just a distracting detail.

    What matters is that the sort of temperature change that takes thousands or tens of thousands of years to occur naturally is currently happening on a scale of decades. And that this process is accelerating. Left to itself the current natural climate trend right now would be for gradual cooling, and that is what was happening until large scale industrialisation. Now it's been replaced by unbelievably rapid heating. If we were talking about natural variation it would be 100 times slower.

    This isn't natural. This is no more a matter of scientific debate than the fact that smoking causes cancer (and the tobacco industry and their friends put a lot of money and effort into trying to confuse the evidence for that until long after it was overwhelming, just as is happening now with carbon emissions).

    This isn't a joke. We can laugh at the flat Earth crowd not only because it is absurd but because it's harmless. This isn't. And you can't just turn this stuff round in a few years when it reaches whatever temperature is needed to convince enough people. No matter what we do now temperatures will rise for decades, sea levels will rise, storms will become more violent (because there is more energy in the system). But if we carry on with business as usual it will be a lot, lot worse.

    And you know what? Even if the natural trend was towards warming rather than cooling at the moment, it would still be a good idea to reduce emissions. If your car is rolling down a shallow hill you should use the brake, not stamp on the accelerator ;). But no natural variation has ever been observed that is as rapid and sustained as what we are currently seeing.
     
  20. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven ...eschew obfuscation...
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    Moved a few posts in here. :)
     
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  21. Member243850

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    lol thanks buddy sorry man about that confusion I saw I think it was another guy talking about climate change in the Flat Earth Believers thread and I started talking about it as well and then one thing just led to another lol :)

    thanks buddy :)
     
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  22. Zigman66

    Zigman66 Android Enthusiast
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    I think it might be enlightening to have @mikedt give us a quick opinion. Why? Well, he is an educator so he has, at the very least, a modicum of intelligence, right? He has also shown to be level headed. But the biggest reason is that he currently resides in China. I would actually really like to hear if he thinks the air quality where he is can be attributed to natural causes or if suspects man made.
     
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  23. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    would that confirm.. trump is right... that it is Chinese fake news??


    /sarcasm (for those that dont know me)
     
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  24. Zigman66

    Zigman66 Android Enthusiast
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    Of course! All those dust masks being worn are actually fashion statements!
     
  25. Davdi

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    I'm living 75 miles north of London in a rural area, If I go 50 miles nearer London, the air is definitely more polluted (You can small the vehicle and industrial exhaust fumes). Cleaner air could well be a beneficial side effect of adopting a 'greener' economy. Scientific American had an issue devoted to renewable energy a while back, I'll see if I still have a copy, and in the UK, New Scientist had an issue devoted to the same subject. We almost certainly do have the technological ability to end a dependence on fossil fuels, and the change, properly handled will be economically beneficial.
    To quote a great US President "We have nothing to fear but fear itself"
    And to Quote an equally great Englishman (Winston Churchill) "Action This Day".
     
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