Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by Red Petal, Nov 29, 2010.
What do you think about 'DISCLOSURE OF SECRETS BY WIKILEAKS'? Is it 'Ok' or 'Not Ok'?
I used to support Wikileaks, but no more. There is nothing in these documents that could be considered illegal or even unethical. Spying by diplomats? Shock. Horror. Who woulda thunk they could ever do something like that.
It looks to me like Wikileaks has moved from being an organization devoted to allowing whistelblowers a place to make their case to being a website devoted to embarrassing the US.
I'm no fan of the US's foreign policy policies, but this guy takes it too far
He has turned the ME into even MORE of a pressure cooker
Well when you have a whistleblower expose something does that not embarrass the government? So I don't see how that website changed any. It exists to embarrass and expose the government when they do something wrong.
Yeah, but there is nothing in the leaks so far that suggests wrongdoing. Is it illegal for a US diplomat to think Berlusconi is partying a touch too hard? Is it illegal for the Saudi's to ask us to whack the Iranians? Or for the US to consider that the Chinese government was behind the attacks on Google?
These leaks serves no purpose other than to try and embarrass. There aren't any evildoers to punish, only normal diplomats doing what diplomats normally do. And I bet if you could look in similar documents from say Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Australia or pretty much any other country on the planet, you would find something similar. So why is the US singled out?
Because Americans loves a conspiracy lol.
I'm not sure how I feel about the leaks. It does expose in some ways the way in which the US does business and it raises some flags. You're right, most of it seems like the typical nonsense that probably always goes on behind closed doors, but the UN has other ideas.
US embassy cables: UN seeks answers from Washington | World news | The Guardian
"Rice was questioned about a leaked US cable showing diplomats were asked to find personal financial details about the UN leadership, including credit card information, passwords for their communications systems and frequent-flier membership. Ban's office hit back at the US with a warning that any violation of UN "immunity" may breach international law."
I'm no supporter of the UN, and my hope is that maybe this will be the episode that gets the UN thrown of of the US. I'm tired of paying for an organization of American hating thugs while they live great lives in NYC.
I think the more transparency we have in regards to our Governments the better!
And before you start slagging him off, you might be interested to know he makes some of the points already made in this thread.
Oh great a UN hater
Roll on WWIII
If you love them so much, how about they set up shop in your country and YOU can pay 50% of the tab.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the EU in total contributes the most
The UN has issues of course, and parts of it need to be updated (eg Security Council), but overall it is a force for good
Its certainly not "anti-American"
Besides the UN has always been a force for democracy and freedom (core US beliefs, no?)
I will be the first to say that, in general, I agree with this sentiment.
However, to attempt to extend that to every corner of "the business of diplomacy" is not a great idea.
The world is a cruel place. There are countries that don't like us. There are countries that view us with a cautious eye, but would love to see us drop a bomb or two on a neighbor that they REALLY don't like. And every nation on the map can say this.
The cloak and dagger world is dark and mysterious for a reason. There are simply things that the average Big Mac eating Schmoe just doesn't need to know because he can't possibly understand how the web connects together. I'm absolutely okay with that. I don't need to know what name is behind the stars on the CIA memorial, or why they are up there in the first place.
Just as one example of why...have we already forgotten about the extent some of our adversaries are willing to go to? Putin had no problem ordering the FSB to whack one of their own once he became an outspoken critic of their Government. Leading Russian critic of Putin's regime is poisoned in London - Telegraph
China deliberately knocked one of our surveillance planes down in 2001 to steal all of the equipment on board. http://articles.cnn.com/2001-04-01/...raft-chinese-f-8-chinese-fighter-jet?_s=PM:US
It happens in every nation. Its part of the game. Has been since we stopped wandering the land and started building cities.
First of all, Wikileaks didn't disclose any classified documents, a private in the U.S. Army did.
Second, if this was a real threat to American security, our government would've shut the website down immediately to minimize the damage.
We should leave wikileaks alone because they didn't do anything wrong, the guy who stole the files did.
Personally I say let WikiLeaks do it's thing!!
Just because they turn their focus onto the U.S. today doesn't mean that they won't look elsewhere tomorrow. Right now they've gotten a lot of information on the US Government and the war in Iraq. They've also gotten info on Pharmaceutical companies, high tech companies, financial services companies, and other nations which they indicate that they haven't released yet.
I read an article in Forbes about Wikileaks a while back. In the article the founder of the company stated that time and resources were lacking to allow them to release lots of these documents quickly. His organization validates that the releases are accurate and not simply an attempt by a competitor to take down their competition.
Next year it's rumored that they will release documents on a large US bank showing evidence of what might be fraudulent and possibly criminal behavior. If it's the bank that many seem to think it is, I say drop that bomb already! That particular financial institution has been giving it to many Americans that have already been hurt by the economic collapse and it's high time that someone returns the favor.
Will that information bury the financial institution? Nobody knows. It may and that would likely mean that the US Government would be required to come in and pick up the pieces. An expensive price tag yes but maybe the revelations will also put some of that companies executives behind bars where they belong.
I'm really getting tired of corporations doing illegal things and then hiding behind their corporate umbrellas. Companies like BP, Enron, and this unnamed financial services company need a wake up call. Act in a legal and ethical manner or plan to hold your future board meetings in the exercise yard of a federal prison!
I gotta agree with you a lot about the Corporate skullduggery thing. I'm all for publicly traded corporations getting dragged onto the carpet and held accountable. They've barely attempted to conceal age discrimination layoffs for the last 20 years, and no one puts up a fight. They remove efficiency and competition from the marketplace, bog down the economy, and soak up resources that otherwise would have gone to small, family owned businesses that are the real heart and soul of the American Economy.
I'm okay with Wikileaks and watchdogs in general. I just think we need to be careful where we point the light sometimes, and be prepared to not like what we see in some places. Diplomacy and counterintelligence being the main areas. As long as there are nations that have hostile intentions towards us, overt, covert, or on a doodle pad, we need the means to counter their efforts.
So if Iran/NK takes pre-emptive action....
I dont have so much of a problem with wikileaks per say. they have the information and they will do whatever that with it. My problem is with the Cpl who gave them the documents. If anything he needs to be tried for treason. When it comes to war there are just things that not everybody needs to know because people will be mortified or cry foul on how things are handled.
I agree that the govt needs to be transparent when it comes to spending and what not. But when it comes to how we obtain info or use that info to accomplish the goal of this administration, which is to pull out the troops, then no the general public doesnt need to know.
Pvt. Bradley Manning is currently being held in Quantico awaiting his court martial. He has been charged with illegally leaking classified documents. He will receive his day in court.
In the meantime, the "Wikileaks didn't do anything wrong" argument is complete hogwash.
Say for example, that I stole your car and sold it to someone else, and was later arrested for it. The police would take the car from guy that bought it, regardless of whether or not he was aware it was stolen. If the police could prove that he had knowledge it was stolen prior to purchasing the car, he could be charged as well.
WikiLeaks published items they knew were stolen. An Army Private does not have free access to Classified Documents, nor does he have the authority or discretion to disseminate. If he had legal access to the documents for any reason, it was for a specific function of his job. His duty was to perform those functions and nothing more.
I am not saying that there won't be some "greater good" element that comes out of this episode. I'm just not going to say Pvt. Manning or WikiLeaks were innocent bystanders who happened to pick up the pieces.
Personally, I think they should continue what they are doing. Even if the diplomatic cables info was just a bunch of bad behavior on the part of us or others, it still should be out there. I strongly disagree with the whole "some information shouldn't be public knowledge" crap. Whether or not this info is dangerous, our nature of xenophobia and lack of openness creates more problems than it alleviates. If we as the world were more open and receptive to each other, I think a lot of the world's problems would have been avoided. Of course, this is just a pipe dream, but I like the occasional wishful thinking in hopes of a better world.
I think you share this thinking with just about any rational human being.
Unfortunately, we live in a world of irrational people, many of whom would love to do us great harm, for no other reason than where we happen to live.
I'm fine with some areas of our national security being out of sight of most eyes. Its necessary to protect those willing to go out on the tip of the spear for you and me.
Don't forget, our government was founded as a Republic, not a Democracy. This was in part because many of the Founding Fathers felt very strongly that the "average joe" wouldn't be able to handle the affairs of government rationally. Time passes and cultural ideas change, but ignorance is eternal.
If I'm not mistaken I believe quite a few of the Wikileaks personnel are computer hackers and they've gotten at least some of the information they've released through hacking. If anything it shows just how porous computer security is for sensitive and sometimes classified information.
I would highly doubt someone as low ranking as the gentleman in custody would have access to all the documents that were leaked. But this is a new area to consider because unlike the Pentagon Papers case where info was stolen and then provided to newspapers, the information being leaked now is current and not a study of U.S. involvement over a period of 30 plus years.
Despite the leak and outcries from U.S. politicians the founder of Wikileaks has more pressing legal troubles to worry about in Sweden.
Yeah unfortunately (again these are the companies that should be heavily regulated - not the SMEs)
Yup, I agree
Agrees - unfortunately the public tends not to educate themselves (not enough time - X Factor needs watching *sigh*)
The Manning trial is now in it's final phase. I'm sure there will be appeals, but as this court is a military court, he will be found guilty. He has plead guilty to many charges, but there is evidence there was torture involved.
Anyway, this is some of what was leaked. Collateral Murder
Judge Denise Lind did not dismiss the "Aiding the Enemy" charge against Bradley Manning.
Even if Manning had leaked the war crimes material as documented in Collateral Murder to the New York Times, the Judge ruled that Manning should have known that "enemies" reads news.
Freedom of the Press and Democracy in America are dead. Long Live the Corporate Police State.
Julian is running for office in Australia.
Julian Assange Warns Of The Global Awakening Against The Mainstream Media-ocracy | Zero Hedge