Root Effect of Recent Events on PDAnet

[VoidedSaint]

i just love how he is trying to jstify current actions because of an illegal past.....well once murdered a guy whats two more

i have killed thousands of people

Spoiler

on Call of Duty 4, and Black Ops

and i got away with it scott free ^_^

 

[ballisticn8]

^^ and on that note i've been killed thousands of times, lol, i'm not that good at COD but I still enjoy playing

 

[VoidedSaint]

lol cod 4 i was a beast, after i of course learned how to play the game, black ops i get my butt whooped at times, but im still pretty decent.


i just hate that damn RC-XD i dont care where it is or where i am, it will find only me and detonate!

 

[ballisticn8]

i just love how he is trying to jstify current actions because of an illegal past.....well once murdered a guy whats two more

Honestly this has to be one of the most idiotic comparisons I think I have ever read on the interwebz.

I really dont understand how people can compare a breach of contract civil court matter to stealing much less ^^ this guys comment about murdering people...

 

[MyTjSux]

Honestly this has to be one of the most idiotic comparisons I think I have ever read on the interwebz.

I really dont understand how people can compare a breach of contract civil court matter to stealing much less ^^ this guys comment about murdering people...

obvious differences...lets try one more...wasn't trying to dumb down post..

i once stole a slurpee from the gas station why not 2 more...
happy

 

[PSkeptic]

obvious differences...lets try one more...wasn't trying to dumb down post..

i once stole a slurpee from the gas station why not 2 more...
happy

His point being, is that violating a contract is not the same as theft. People don't get arrested for violation of a contract's terms.

It's such a big difference, there are two separate legal codes covering them: Penal and Civil.

Stealing the slurpee is covered under Penal law. Tethering is covered under Civil law.

 

[rehpyc]

Now we're just starting to argue semantics..

My morals haven't kept me from downloading music, games, movies, pc programs, etc. etc. Boo hoo if I decide to tether a few different times to give friends data when their crappy network doesn't give them a good signal to or if my home internet goes out for part of the night. A few extra mb isn't going to harm anybody.

 

[dhoffman1421]

And I bet you never downloaded music off the internet.

Every piece of music I got off the net is paid for (iTunes) so that dog won't hunt. How about you?

 

[VoidedSaint]

His point being, is that violating a contract is not the same as theft. People don't get arrested for violation of a contract's terms.

It's such a big difference, there are two separate legal codes covering them: Penal and Civil.

Stealing the slurpee is covered under Penal law. Tethering is covered under Civil law.

ugh i was hoping we can lose this topic

we all know tethering is wrong, and it violates your terms of service, i do believe we are all well aware of it when we do/did it

i did it all the time, i dont anymore cause i now have wifi at my house (thank you linksys)

so how bout we drop the topics of tethering because its just becoming quite lame, if anyone wants to know how to do it, tell them it does violate your terms of service, and if your caught you may have to pay for the service, and you cannot hold me responsible for showing you, because i myself do not do it.

then show him/her how to go about doing the wireless tether.

CASE CLOSED!

 

[gmenfan83]

Im with you voided (bro!) Lol ...cod is a much better topic ...if on ps3 shoot me your username ....and about tether ...who gives a damn ......

 

[1stAndroid]

@ Topic of PDANet legality vs. Wireless Tethering legality:

Hypothetical situation:

I want to use a USB tether not a wireless tether as I don't trust the security on a wifi network, I don't necesarilly trust Verizon's 3G Signal security, but I have to accept the security levels of an ISP. VZW does not offer any WIRED tethering option that I am aware of unless that is a feature of their tethering app that I am not aware of. So VZW does not infact offer for me the product that I want to use, and can not claim I am using 3rd party apps to circumvent their own app which costs me money. Is this still a legal gray zone.

Second Hypothetical regarding the moral dillema:

I get my home DSL connection VIA good O'le Big Red Verizon. The only time I will use my PDA Net tethering is when my Big Red DSL service cuts out due to their failure to properly maintain DSL service in my location. Am I still morally obligated to feel guilty for using a free tethering service not condoned by verizon to fill in for Verizons failure to maintain my DSL connection?

@MyTjSux & the Justifying Future Crime with Past Crimes:

Originally posted by DonJonBovi
And I bet you never downloaded music off the internet.

Originally posted by MyTjSux
So because of past actions it is okay to continue to do illegal things

Just to clarify a few things DonJonBovi did NOT say "I have downloaded music illegally so now that makes this okay"

DonJonBovi did say "And I bet YOU never downloaded music off the internet"

DonJonBovi was clearly calling out what he saw as hypocrisy, and I would agree, of people condeming those who want to wirelessly tether for free, for "stealing" from Verizon, when he supposes many of those accusers and condemners have done their fair share of stealing in the past.

<<Below is all my opinion, not that of DonJonBovi>>

No, commiting a crime in the past does not allow you to commit a crime today, and that isnt what DonJonBovi said AT ALL. I also add that having time lapse between the last time you commited a crime and the present time does not diminish the illegality of your past actions. The least you could do as someone who has changed your ways is have some understanding of where others are coming from seeing as hwo you were there once yourself.

Hypocrisy not only because many of these posters, looking down on those who still want to wirelessly tether, have broken the law in the past, so to indirectly take an heir of superiority is unwarranted (see: Let he without sin cast the first stone)

But hypocrisy HEIGHTENED because many of the people now condemning wireless tethering in light of recent events, have offered their support of or even indulged in wireless tethering before this recent news. To me it is quite apparent that many who have previously wirelessly tethered and now see they may get caught, or it may get in the way of their other "more preferred" root activities are moving to condemn the act of wireless tethering in the "all things root community" NOT TO DEFEND THE LAW but to preserve their own interests.

I find this condescension and use of "a need to uphold the law" when other personal benefits are the true end-goal to be appauling, and a signal that a portion of the Android Tech Support community may be no different than so many others where those "in the know" feel the need to flaunt their knowledge and abilities, and use their status in the community as a way to boost their ego. (Up until now I have been nothing but IMPRESSED with how gracious, courteous, understanding, and helpful this commmunity has been to myself and other less experienced android users. I have found this so refreshing and I would hate to see this lost over these most recent events.)

To Clarify: If you do your best to uphold the law, and a member of this forum that has always been supportive of legal endeavors and not the illegal I COMMEND YOU, you are clearly in possession of a moral concious much clearer than mine. And I have no problem with you condeming those that want to use wireless tether now, just as you did before.

If you are one of those who have previously tethered, and now see the wrongness of it because VZY has made it clear they don't appreciate the stealing. I support you in using the legality argument, you should DEFINITELY support what you believe in. I only ask that you do it kindly, understanding you once were on the "wrong path"

If you are one of those who have previously tethered, supported tethering, but find root most valuable and tethering a necesarry sacrifice to maintain root. BE HONEST ABOUT IT, don't hide behind the legality, and don't try to use a false pre-tense to pass a wave of moral-judgement and regulation across the Android Forums community.

If the moderators and those in charge of the community deem it inappropriate to discuss something then by all means we should all follow their rulings set down, but we should do it with the same level of respect demanded in all other interactions in this community. a simple "We have decided not to offer support for that kind of app/activity on this forum" would suffice. The example of the support for finding and using ROM's with gaming emulators comes to mind. Those topics get shut down but their IS NOT this same type of firestorm of judgement that goes along with each post, the threads just disappear into the archives.

PS:
How do you guys do that cool multi-quoting where it keeps the automated reference to who the original poster was? I had to manually insert my originally posted by XXXXX's. Thanks

 

[MyTjSux]

His point being, is that violating a contract is not the same as theft. People don't get arrested for violation of a contract's terms.

It's such a big difference, there are two separate legal codes covering them: Penal and Civil.

Stealing the slurpee is covered under Penal law. Tethering is covered under Civil law.

Okay we can agree its wrong so ill do this once more for all the marbles here...im getting ready to go all in...here we go
3
2
1......

I did something that wasn't necessarily right, why not two more times.....



anything else?

 

[MyTjSux]

@ Topic of PDANet legality vs. Wireless Tethering legality:

Hypothetical situation:

I want to use a USB tether not a wireless tether as I don't trust the security on a wifi network, I don't necesarilly trust Verizon's 3G Signal security, but I have to accept the security levels of an ISP. VZW does not offer any WIRED tethering option that I am aware of unless that is a feature of their tethering app that I am not aware of. So VZW does not infact offer for me the product that I want to use, and can not claim I am using 3rd party apps to circumvent their own app which costs me money. Is this still a legal gray zone.

Second Hypothetical regarding the moral dillema:

I get my home DSL connection VIA good O'le Big Red Verizon. The only time I will use my PDA Net tethering is when my Big Red DSL service cuts out due to their failure to properly maintain DSL service in my location. Am I still morally obligated to feel guilty for using a free tethering service not condoned by verizon to fill in for Verizons failure to maintain my DSL connection?

@MyTjSux & the Justifying Future Crime with Past Crimes:





Just to clarify a few things DonJonBovi did NOT say "I have downloaded music illegally so now that makes this okay"

DonJonBovi did say "And I bet YOU never downloaded music off the internet"

DonJonBovi was clearly calling out what he saw as hypocrisy, and I would agree, of people condeming those who want to wirelessly tether for free, for "stealing" from Verizon, when he supposes many of those accusers and condemners have done their fair share of stealing in the past.

<<Below is all my opinion, not that of DonJonBovi>>

No, commiting a crime in the past does not allow you to commit a crime today, and that isnt what DonJonBovi said AT ALL. I also add that having time lapse between the last time you commited a crime and the present time does not diminish the illegality of your past actions. The least you could do as someone who has changed your ways is have some understanding of where others are coming from seeing as hwo you were there once yourself.

Hypocrisy not only because many of these posters, looking down on those who still want to wirelessly tether, have broken the law in the past, so to indirectly take an heir of superiority is unwarranted (see: Let he without sin cast the first stone)

But hypocrisy HEIGHTENED because many of the people now condemning wireless tethering in light of recent events, have offered their support of or even indulged in wireless tethering before this recent news. To me it is quite apparent that many who have previously wirelessly tethered and now see they may get caught, or it may get in the way of their other "more preferred" root activities are moving to condemn the act of wireless tethering in the "all things root community" NOT TO DEFEND THE LAW but to preserve their own interests.

I find this condescension and use of "a need to uphold the law" when other personal benefits are the true end-goal to be appauling, and a signal that a portion of the Android Tech Support community may be no different than so many others where those "in the know" feel the need to flaunt their knowledge and abilities, and use their status in the community as a way to boost their ego. (Up until now I have been nothing but IMPRESSED with how gracious, courteous, understanding, and helpful this commmunity has been to myself and other less experienced android users. I have found this so refreshing and I would hate to see this lost over these most recent events.)

To Clarify: If you do your best to uphold the law, and a member of this forum that has always been supportive of legal endeavors and not the illegal I COMMEND YOU, you are clearly in possession of a moral concious much clearer than mine. And I have no problem with you condeming those that want to use wireless tether now, just as you did before.

If you are one of those who have previously tethered, and now see the wrongness of it because VZY has made it clear they don't appreciate the stealing. I support you in using the legality argument, you should DEFINITELY support what you believe in. I only ask that you do it kindly, understanding you once were on the "wrong path"

If you are one of those who have previously tethered, supported tethering, but find root most valuable and tethering a necesarry sacrifice to maintain root. BE HONEST ABOUT IT, don't hide behind the legality, and don't try to use a false pre-tense to pass a wave of moral-judgement and regulation across the Android Forums community.

If the moderators and those in charge of the community deem it inappropriate to discuss something then by all means we should all follow their rulings set down, but we should do it with the same level of respect demanded in all other interactions in this community. a simple "We have decided not to offer support for that kind of app/activity on this forum" would suffice. The example of the support for finding and using ROM's with gaming emulators comes to mind. Those topics get shut down but their IS NOT this same type of firestorm of judgement that goes along with each post, the threads just disappear into the archives.

PS:
How do you guys do that cool multi-quoting where it keeps the automated reference to who the original poster was? I had to manually insert my originally posted by XXXXX's. Thanks

So what your saying is that since you did something incorrect in the past you shouldn't be able to give your opinion if decided not to continue on a path that includes immoral actions? Because what your saying above is that BonJovi is pointing out that YOU (the poster) never downloaded music illegally, so since we have done something wrong before we are in no way allowed to give our current outlook on a situation....last time i read through the threads running rampant i haven't seen anyone on here demean someone personally because of a tethering choice. But last i checked everyone has a freedom of speech and opinion....

 

[1stAndroid]

Okay we can agree its wrong so ill do this once more for all the marbles here...im getting ready to go all in...here we go
3
2
1......

I did something that wasn't necessarily right, why not two more times.....



anything else?

Same point as my above, much longer post. which you may not have seen.

He did not say:
"I did something that wasn't necessarily right, why not two more times....."

He did say:
I bet YOU have done something that wasn't necessarily right, so please don't come at me and others with such a mighty "holier than thou stick" with regards to this topic

EDIT: I see your post.
I wanted to clarify that many people have been putting inaccurate words into his mouth, which isn't fair, whether his original point was right or wrong, its not fair to put a blatantly bad argument into his mouth, then beat that argument with a stick.

On to my point. I think their should be less hypocrisy and more transparency in the fight against free wireless tethering for those interested in that.

 

[MyTjSux]

Same point as my above, much longer post. which you may not have seen.

He did not say:
"I did something that wasn't necessarily right, why not two more times....."

He did say:
I bet YOU have done something that wasn't necessarily right, so please don't come at me and others with such a mighty "holier than thou stick" with regards to this topic

the fact that you condone someone elses opinion of others is a direct conflict with you telling me i have a big stick....(because since i quoted you originally that means you sir had the holy demeanor)

 

[1stAndroid]

My point was not to say You (MyTjSux) have done something illegal, or that you personally have a holier than thou stick.

I was simply trying to make it clear DonJonBovi's argument was not
"I broke the law once so I can do it again now" as has been claimed, and trying to accurately portray the meaning behind his comment

(yes I understand the irony of my interpreting his statement while condemning the other interpretations of his words. But I whole heartedly believe my interpretation is 100% more accurate)

My rant on hypocrisy and transparency was purposefully not naming names because I don't know who has done what in the past, I just identified groups of people that I would bet exist in these discussions.

 

[EarlyMon]

If the moderators and those in charge of the community deem it inappropriate to discuss something then by all means we should all follow their rulings set down, but we should do it with the same level of respect demanded in all other interactions in this community. a simple "We have decided not to offer support for that kind of app/activity on this forum" would suffice. The example of the support for finding and using ROM's with gaming emulators comes to mind. Those topics get shut down but their IS NOT this same type of firestorm of judgement that goes along with each post, the threads just disappear into the archives.

Thank you, please allow me to clarify - I'm speaking on behalf of AndroidForums.com mod staff here.

First and foremost, we are open to feedback on this issue and have created a thread and moved posts to -

http://androidforums.com/suggestion...ok-put-out-wireless-tether-info-new-post.html

Next, for the record, our forums do not condone illegal activities and work diligently to stop their spread through our forums. We don't do that because we're scared of lawyers - we do it because we like to think we have a common sense of what's right that our mainstream members share.

Next - and this is most important - it's not black and white, and it's not easy to ensure we're making the right choices at all times. Although many may freely disagree with that remark, the truth is we have a private area where we on staff have quite lively debates - to our surprise - on things that we all started out thinking were simple.

Game emulators is a good example, I'm glad you mentioned it. There seems to be no legal challenges leveled against them, and they're accepted in the Market - yet - to discuss trading or installing the game roms that they're designed to facilitate _is_ always subject to takedowns because those game roms clearly violate copyrights. Some of your staff members strongly feel that's hypocrisy, others strongly feel that only by that policy do we not set ourselves above the rights protected for others by the law.

This tethering issue is being given attention by staff, believe that. Your strongest ability to influence us is via that link above - it will be read by our boss.

And with that, I feel it's incumbent on me to provide a little public service message (my trademark ) -

• Although this issue is heated, no need for any of us to lose our cool
• Please be polite and attack messages, not messengers
• Please be polite and attack issues, not each other
• Sometimes the highest display of intelligence and honor is to remember that our First Amendment is sometimes best served by agreeing to disagree and being ok with posting that way
• Invective and hyperbole often lead to confusion rather than clarification and the number one outcome of confusion is bad feelings - I'm sure none of you came here for bad feelings

Just a note as to why this is a tough issue: it seems from what I've read of the Verizon contract, tethering is not ok. However - contracts are civil - and violating a contract is not against the law.

If it were illegal, your friendly staff would have no question as to how to proceed.

So - please join us in that discussion and clarify for us your views on this critical matter at this critical time, with our thanks in advance for your participation and your working with us on this.

If nothing else - please note well my public service message.

PS:
How do you guys do that cool multi-quoting where it keeps the automated reference to who the original poster was? I had to manually insert my originally posted by XXXXX's. Thanks

Just hit the quote button below any post to build a quoted reply. There's also a glyph with a green + sign: if you click any number of those before hitting "quote" on the last one, you'll get those several posts included in your reply and properly attributed to each author.

When breaking a long quote into pieces, look for that handy thing at the top of the posting tools that looks like a cartoon speech bubble - select text, use that, it's the quoting tool.

Hope that helps!

PS - Please read my sig, it's got good info.

 

[VoidedSaint]

Im with you voided (bro!) Lol ...cod is a much better topic ...if on ps3 shoot me your username ....and about tether ...who gives a damn ......

im on xbox 360 and my gamertag is the same as my tag here ^_^ voidedsaint lives everywhere!

How do you guys do that cool multi-quoting where it keeps the automated reference to who the original poster was? I had to manually insert my originally posted by XXXXX's. Thanks

beside quote you will see a + hit it, and the other posts you want to quote then hit reply

 

[magic1]

PDANet is a paid app (or was a paid app) back in my Motorola Q days. I purchased it and used it back then. I don't even think VZW offered any kind of tethering plan back then...can't remember Anywho, PDANet and the likes have been around for a very long time and you can only operate one device at a time with it (have to be plugged in via USB, so that eliminates many of today's new devices anyway). I have never seen anyone in the past, in any of the forums, complaining about PDANet or the other programs. Is it stealing? No. I allows you to use something you are already paying for. Is it moral? Ask Verizon for that answer

I've just got to say this. We can't get dsl where we live, only dial up. So when my wife and I looked into different options for Internet service such as the air cards or whatever that you plug into your computer, we were told about these two supposedly great Apps in the market called pdanet and easy tether lite. With all this talk about stealing, what's so comical about this is that it was a Verizon Rep that told us about them!

 

[darkcyber]

I've just got to say this. We can get dsl where we live, only dial up. So when my wife and I looked into different options for Internet service such as the air cards or whatever that you plug into your computer, we were told about these two supposedly great Apps in the market called pdanet and easy tether lite. With all this talk about stealing, what's so comical about this is that it was a Verizon Rep that told us about them!

I purchased PDANet years ago to use with my Motorola Q when I was on the road. Was taking college classes online and only way to access my college stuff. I have blazing fast internet service at home and at work, so I don't need to tether not but once in a blue moon.

We would not even be having these conversations (or arguments) if the information (or rumors) were not let out of the bag that supposedly VZW is attaching secret code to find root phones and unauthorized tethering. Before this, don't remember reading anywhere that anyone had any kind of a problem with tethering. Now, everyone is up in arms because they think it is the end of rooting and the world is coming to an end. I really don't think tethering was the stick that broke the camel's back here. Motorola, VZW, and all other companies are not just going to stand by and let people (us) continue to hack their hardware (firmware) on their products. And yes, pure and simple, it is basically hacking. And to them, that creates a security risk for them and their network.

The argument will go on and on about tethering being legal or not, but plain and simple, someone said it best in an earlier post...if VZW and Google see it as being illegal then they need to pull the plug on ALL apps in the Market place. Because by not removing those apps, both companies are saying it is ok to continue doing it.

Edit: We find that VZW has slipped secret code to find tethering people and everyone goes crazy trying to make as many posts as possible stating they are not tethering or no longer tethering.

 

[MyTjSux]

deuces

 

[gmenfan83]

im on xbox 360 and my gamertag is the same as my tag here ^_^ voidedsaint lives everywhere!



beside quote you will see a + hit it, and the other posts you want to quote then hit reply

lol same here gmenfan83 is everywhere as well

 

[ECFfighter7232]

lol same here gmenfan83 is everywhere as well

yeah I use the same sn for my xbox aswell lol

 

[soapinmouth]

not so sure pdanet will be as easily tracked considering it doesn't require root and their method has something to do with how they don't send updates to rooted devices.

 

[Optimus]

Most coherent post I've seen. I mean I respect somebody who considers it a moral issue for themselves, but to try to impose that opinion on others is crossing a line.

This whole subject is one huge facepalm.

First off... tethering isn't stealing. Tethering without a tethering plan is stealing. There will still be many people who pay for tethering that will want to discuss it here, and you guys all need to remember that before you jump on people for mentioning it.

Second... This whole "Morals" argument is one huge joke. If you had morals, then you will have never tethered before. Just because there is now a fear of being caught doesn't make it any more wrong, nor is it a basis for a "Morals" speech. If you wouldn't do it for fear of being caught, then fair enough... but leave the morals crap out of it. Those aren't morals... that is called "Fear". You guys are beating that crap to death, and probably not one single one of you actually means it.

Simple truth... the rules haven't changed. It's just that now you can get caught. Let the subject die at that.