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Enough with all the phones please

Discussion in 'Android Lounge' started by omnius, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. omnius

    omnius Android Enthusiast
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    I don't get why phone makers do this. RIM, Samsung, Motorola, LG, HTC etc etc have literally dozens of phones all running the same OS. Then you have Apple, which has but one iPhone. Why is everyone but Apple taking this approach? I don't own any Apple products but I can't help but think it makes more sense to pour all your resources into concentrating on one hardware platform than a bunch of hardware versions of the same product, fragmenting your product line into a tech support nightmare and it's us the consumers who end up on the 'rear-receiving-end' of those issues. Especially when you release Android OS "merde chocolatte" and then 4 months later release Android OS "sucker strawberry delight" while withdrawing support for the merde you release just a few months earlier. And their customer support forums reps make it quite clear that they don't give a fig about the lack of support complaints on a 4-6 month old phone. Maddening!! :mad:
     

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  2. nyydynasty

    nyydynasty Android Expert
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    simple answer #1 - more money
    simple answer #2 - more options for customers, which means they'll be happier because they can get the device that suites their needs (which plays into the first answer "more money")
     
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  3. chanchan05

    chanchan05 The Doctor
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    Another, not everyone can afford a phone as expensive as an iPhone. In other countries its more difficult to get a contract off a network provider, so most people just buy off the the phone and use it on pay as you go.

    If you want continued support for a device, its simple really, get the flagship phone, and that's guaranteed to get at least 18 months support, just like how the iPhones get about 18mos guaranteed support for the updates.

    Please tell me you're not one of those people who bought phones half the price of an iPhone or SGS2 or Sensation XE and complain why those more expensive phones get updates and yours doesn't. Its basically you get what you paid for, you paid for less so you get less, end of story.
     
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  4. valorian

    valorian Android Expert
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    Apple has 1 OS and 1 manufacturer using this OS so they only need 1 phone.

    Android being open source has many OEMs using many variations of the Android OS. You also have OEMs selling a range of phones from entry level to high end. Also, some carriers do not want to sell the same phone as their competitors. It's not uncommon for an carrier to work with an OEM to create a phone just for them. All of this leads to many different types of phones. I personally like this. It gives us choices that Apple likes to try and take away from their customers.
     
  5. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    apple has a strangle hold on the carriers.. because they are the ONLY supplier of iphones (they created a market demand and they are the only supplier). so they can make strict guidelines on how they are sold.. and pricing.. all the same across the board. you pay the same price on all carriers.

    with android.. there are many OEMs.. which are all fighting for the same market.. be it low, mid, or high end smartphones.

    so.. if Samsung sold the Galaxy S2 on all all carriers with the exact same phone name and spec.. the carriers will hate that. T-mobile will sell at a price below Verizon. so Joe-customer will say to Verizon, but why is tmobile selling it at -$ than you? I want you to match it!!! with a different name.. Verizon can market, that they have the lowest price on their version of GS2.

    so Verizon will require Samsung to change one or more spec, and call it XYZ (GS2). the general public will think, oh it is a different phone, so I cant ask for price matching.

    HTC does this too... many phones coming out right after each other for different carriers or country.. but with very similar specs.

    take the car market in usa... all the OEMs make the same car.. for different brands but with different names. ex: Yokon, tahoe, escalade
     
  6. jerofld

    jerofld Fixing stuff is not easy
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    Using the GS2 as an example, I think you're wrong with your explanation. I believe Samsung named different variants different names because of different equipment variations. One is GSM, another named one is CDMA. Another variant has GSM + LTE, the other has a slightly bigger screen. That is the real difference in the naming scheme. They all have the Galaxy S2 label on them somewhere.
     
  7. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    lets take the SGS1 for example... there was only radio, and slight changes from one carrier to the next. Sprint had the only big change and that was a Keyboard.

    back a 5yrs or so.. you could find the same phone/name on all carriers... and I would use one carrier's price to get the phone discounted to me on my carrier.

    only BB and iP are the same across the carriers now...
     
  8. Sideman

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    I agree with Dan330. This methodology is common across many markets. How do you think big vendors ALL brag about their Price Match Guarentee and still can deny matching prices? It's because they have their own version of the given item that has very slightly different features...nothing big, but different just the same. So there's no way for any other vendor to sell it for less...no one else has THAT model!

    Supply and Demand dictates that if you have a unique item you can charge what the market will bear. Apple lives and dies by that philosophy. But, with a vendor having his own "unique" version of a popular item, he has effectively reduced the "supply", and thus increased his allowable profit margin....without the competition undercutting him.

    If most vendors operate this way, they all can maintain higher prices and they all are happy. The OEM can sell more product (though with minor model changes), and vendors can claim they have a unique version that's better than the others.

    It's all a BIG dollar game. At least that's my opinion on the subject.
     
  9. quest7

    quest7 Android Enthusiast
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    From link:

    At CES 2012, many OEMs and carriers were pressed by journalists to reduce the number of devices they release in 2012, and they seemed to be complying. If fewer devices were made each year, more support could be provided to customers which would make for a more up-to-date mobile ecosystem.

    Why Android Doesn&#039;t Work... Yet

    I agree, it can be confusing for a new-comer to the android OS. They think a low end phone should do what a high end phone does. They should do research first, but most do not.
     
  10. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    yes.. they are going to reduce the number of phones....

    Samsung will only put out: 3 phones levels: Low, Med, High. with a slight change for each carrier.
    To Sammy, the SGS2 for each carrier is .. 1 phone. to the public, it is 3-4 new named SGS2s in the USA

    its all a marketing game... like bed mattresses... each big named store has its own model number for the same design. may have 1 number off from each other.
     
  11. brownhornet

    brownhornet Android Enthusiast
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    I used to be one of those that felt like the more options the better but honestly i'm starting to agree. And that's mainly because how crappy the manufacturers/carriers have become about supporting their products. And on top of that, there were probably 10+ phones that made their debut at CES... there is absolutely NO reason for phones to still be coming out this Spring/Summer that still have Gingerbread.

    And out of those, who knows how long itll take them to be updated to ICS. Hell even now, who knows how long it'll be before the phones we have NOW get updated. Manufacturers, HTC especially... are putting out 100 different variants of the same phone with the same specs with maybe a different button or .1 inch bigger screen. One will get updated this month, one will never get updated. Samsung is notoriously terrible with their updates too. Samsung has phones that were put out barely a year ago they claim they can't even update because of the size of touchwiz.. it's dispicable.
     
  12. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    to me..

    I think most OEMs are doing fine with OS upgrades... As long as they get 1 version upgrade is good... more is better! but I cant see how we can demand it.
    and of course all the BUG fix maintenance updates...even if it is past the EOL for at lest a year.

    we purchased the device based on what is on the box..and functions. You cant expect it to keep going? it is a lot of work/cost/test to keep it going. 1 year is good.

    WHAT-if the next big version is designed for multi-core optimization.. so it requires only for 2 core or more phones.. are you going to demand it? and make OEMs put a 2nd core into your device?
     
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  13. brownhornet

    brownhornet Android Enthusiast
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    Nah, most manufacturers SUCK at updates. LG, Samsung and Motorola especially. Samsung just updated the Epic to gingerbread not too long ago...right before ICS came out. On top of that, the updates get delayed months at a time because they have to program the crappy overlays over the top of Android.

    And BS with the "we purchased as is" crap. Plenty of products not phone related update them on a regular basis. That's one thing I will definitely give Apple credit for with IOS. They are strict with carriers on what they can and cant add so when they update they can update EVERYONE. The only ones that didn't get IOS 4 was people with the very first iphone and the 3G. The 3GS and the 4 both got it.

    Had it been Android, it wouldve been some manufacturers claiming the specs on half their phones that had just released a few months prior wouldn't allow it. And generally, even when IOS can't fit on older devices they will still make a version of it to place on there unless the device is just TOO old. But a year old? No excuse for that at all. And again, there is no reason any phone coming out this year should be coming out with Gingerbread. I thought the whole point of Gingerbread was to get ALL Android devices on one platform?
     
  14. omnius

    omnius Android Enthusiast
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    Yes, let's please use your logic as the following scenario meets your criteria perfectly. My phone, advertised very heavily as "the world's first dual core superphone!" That sounds pretty flagship to me. Guess what? Their updates have been nearly a year behind. According to your 18 month figure, I should still expect another 9 months of timely support. But it hasn't been.
     
  15. chanchan05

    chanchan05 The Doctor
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    I can't remember exactly which was the first dual core.. LG 2X? Can't remember what Android version that came out with. Tell me, has there really been a major update since it was released? Nothing. Oh a few minor updates, from 2.3.3 to 2.3.7, which was more minor bug fixes. If the LG custom firmware had already addressed those bugs on 2.3.3, then 2.3.7 update is useless and is a waste of resources for them to port. Not to mention that if you are carrier branded, even if LG has released the updates for the international versions of your phones, you wont get it until the carrier releases it for your phone, and carriers do have a reputation of being lazy to release updates.

    So you're looking for Android 4.0? Its not yet even stable. Nexus owners have been complaining of terrible battery life, unstable WiFi connections, etc. There are problems across the board. Of course LG, Samsung and other OEMs are working on the updates, but so far in the timespan you have mentioned, there haven't been any significant updates for anyone to even care about apart from the currently not stable yet 4.0... (which leaks of the alpha versions from some manufacturers have already been seen, proving that they are working on making it stable for their devices).

    So what exactly is the problem? If you want to get ALL updates, get a Nexus. Good luck dealing with the bugs and all the updates you want. Basically, all the Nexus owners are beta testers.
     
  16. omnius

    omnius Android Enthusiast
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    Speaking of carriers, are you speaking of the software development of the updates, or the time it takes to push it OTA?

    It was the Motorola Atrix. And they released it in March/2011 with Froyo. Gingerbread 2.3.3 was released on the Nexus One a month before the Atrix came out using Froyo. Atrix didn't see gingerbread until Late summer for some carriers, and Fall of 2011 for the rest. Some flagship.
     
  17. novox77

    novox77 Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
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    Why does this surprise you? Almost every product-based company in existence offers multiple products. Apple is in a very, very small minority.

    Should Toyota get rid of all of their cars and just focus on, say, the Camry?

    "fragmentation" is the norm. While it might be a pain from a development/manufacturing perspective, from a business perspective, it is necessary because of one fact: we all have different personalities and tastes. There is no one-size-fits-all.

    But kudos to Apple for coming up with products that satisfy a LOT of people.
     
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  18. omnius

    omnius Android Enthusiast
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    No, but now that you use the car analogy, Toyota, Honda, Subaru, and many of the other non-Detroit makers are doing, what I would like to see the phone industry do. Make a few good models, not 100 of them. I have NO problem with a few good models. But they're making too many models. I think about 2-3 phones per OEM would be nice to see happen, and some OEM's are doing this, but many are becoming way too bloated
     
  19. dan330

    dan330 Extreme Android User
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    toyota... makes the camry.. in a lot different models (similar to different Galaxy S for each carrier) for the usa. they make other cars for other countries and different models for each one.

    if you look.. worldwide.. toyota puts out a lot of different cars. so do the other OEMs, like GM, Ford.. etc...
     
  20. chanchan05

    chanchan05 The Doctor
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    Development. Carriers have unique firmware versions compared to say, the international versions. They have special apps that they install which has access to system info, for example, even if the phone is not rooted, or other system edits which force you to use their services. Actually in my experience with Nokia before Android went.mainstream, carrier modified firmware has more issues and bugs than international ones simply because they mess up with things the manufacturers have already fixed.


    Again, that's normal for all OEM branded phones to have quite a delay in releasing the update. They have their own manufacturer skins which add functionality to their phones over plain that which plain Android gives. Have you even seen the disparity of features and capabilities the Nexus S had compared to the almost identical Galaxy S out of their boxes? How about the fact that SGS2 has hardware acceleration for the UI, even before Google added that on the Galaxy Nexus? Not to mention that they had bugs to contend with. The main reason for example that there was an Android 2.3.3, and 2.3.5 and 2.3.6 was that the original Gingerbread had bugs, which the OEMs did not care to push to the customers because they either can't solve it or they can't make their skins stable with it. Take the SGS2 update to ICS that leaked. Samsung has not released it yet because it was buggy, and they said it was still in alpha development, but it was just basically ICS skinned with TouchWiz.

    Again if your point was just the simple fact that you want all updates fast and early direct from Google, buy a Nexus. If manufacturers did not skin and make system changes to their phones over their competitors, what's the point when you would be basically selling the same things?
     
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  21. Stuntman

    Stuntman Android Expert
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    My issue with Apple is that their one phone does not have a feature that I wanted and there is no other phone that Apple makes that has that feature (physical keyboard). When I look at other manufacturers, they make a variety of phones and one of those phones have the feature that I want.

    My HTC Desire Z was released a couple of months before the Galaxy Nexus. The Galaxy Nexus had Gingerbread and the Desire Z had a keyboard. I chose the keyboard and I'm happy. I was happier with a Desire Z running Froyo than a Galaxy Nexus running Gingerbread. Right now, I'm happier with my Desire Z with a keyboard running Gingerbread than I would be with a Galaxy Nexus running ICS without a keyboard. So far, I haven't found anything that a Galaxy Nexus can do that I really want that my Desire Z cannot.

    Not everyone is unsatisfied with a phone that is running an older OS than some other phone on the market. If you want to ensure that your phone gets the OS update sooner than most other phones, you can get the Nexus phones. If you want some other feature that some other phone has that the Nexus or Desire Z does not have, then get that other phone. If you think there should be one ultra phone that has every single feature that every other phone in the universe has that can satisfy everyone, that phone doesn't exist. Just look at the various phones and pick the one that suits you the best. There will be things other phones can do better than the one that suits you. You'll just have to live with the fact that someone else has phone that has some aspect that may be a bit better than yours.
     
  22. Alvas

    Alvas Newbie
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    customization, options, and price variation? I think it's a good model as long as the phones are all of at LEAST decent quality, with the top flagship phones being positively awesome (Motorola, for example). Apple makes good phones, but it's very limited in terms of customization
     
  23. brownhornet

    brownhornet Android Enthusiast
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    And using this method, Android is and probably always will be fragmented to hell and half assed supported. Not much desire to keep current phones up to date when you're trying to put out 50 more in a year.
     
  24. VincentAnoid

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    To fill in every gap in the market. We aren't all spoilt kids or rich bastards
     
  25. Stuntman

    Stuntman Android Expert
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    So what benefits does keeping phones "up to date" are so important that it makes having a phone not up to date so bad? ICS has been released a few months ago on a device. So far, I haven't seen anything on that device that isn't on my phone that I simply cannot do without.
     

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